I remember the richest 1% of us use fuzzy math while inside a lockbox... http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/wink.gif



[This message has been edited by TheFly (edited 10-04-2000).]

Hey, I remember that!

Luz
and we've been in that lock box for seven years...

I just know that if Gore gets elected I might get a tax break in another 19 years when my kid goes to college. WhooHoo! now I have something to look forward to.

Morphius
Still wants to know the def of middle class.

morphius,

It's whatever you aint.

Luz
translating gorespeak...<BR>

Luz - I was guessing it was someone making around 26 grand a year, you know the big money makers in the country.

Morphius
Gore makes me feel like upper middle class, my life OTOH does not.

Didnt watch it, but I can guess the story line.

Gore: He wants to take all the money and give it to the RICH! He also wants to starve kids, make the elderly choose between drugs or food, and confiscate all the money from the middle class.

Bush: I do not.

It was like watching children fight over the same toy. In a nutshell, blah blah blah blah blah blah.... The numbers do not add up on either side, nice...

Gregg,

Actually, it was more substantive than I expected it to be.

Bush actually got in some good licks!

I personally believe that appearances are more important in these things than what is actually said (unfortunately) and Gore probably looked more 'Presidential'.

Bush, on the other hand, seemed sincere and effectively labeled Gore as a 'tax and spend' liberal that makes a lot of promises and doesn't deliver! ~ larges planned budget increase in history, will appoint liberal Supreme Court judges, has been promising these same things (Medicare & SS reform) for seven years and still hasn't done them...

A much better debate than I expected.

Luz
the real fireworks will be the vps on thursday...

It was more like:

Gore: What ya doin bro?
Bush: Nothin. Just watchin' the Cheifs and havin' a Bud...
Gore: True....
Bush: Whazzup!
Gore: WHAZZUP!
Lehrer: WHAZZUP!<BR>

Gores best line, paraphrased to a minor degree, "I don't think we should use personal attack's on scandel's and such things, and I'm going to be the bigger man and not talk about such things."

I found that really damn funny, I have no good scandle's to talk about you so I will take the higher ground. Nothing like going out on a limb.

Thought the parts I did watch were pretty lame for both guys.

Luz - I think it would have been great for Bush to make a comment about all the sighs that Gore let out everytime he talked about him. I think a comment along the lines of, is that the same way you act when you are talking to foreign leader when they give you their opinion, are you really that condesending to everyone, or is that just an act for TV? Just a thought.

I think Lehrer let Gore break the rules of debate too much. Gore broke into Bush's time several times and Lehrer let it happen.

If I was Bush I'd carry a squirt gun in my pocket and blast him with water the first time he interrupted me.

[This message has been edited by mlyonsd (edited 10-04-2000).]

I like Bush's "You have no credibility on this issue" concerning campaign finance reform... Right on the mark...

And Gore's straight-faced lie that his kids went to public school... They never did.

And Gore's FEMA credit stealing when he said he was with FEMA in Texas during the floods...

Is this guy Mr.MeToo or what...

And the story about the little girl standing in class because of no place to sit was a total fabrication...

Yep, seems to me Al Gore is well equipped to assume the mantel of the Lincoln Bedroom...<BR>

morphius,

Great rejoinder!

I found myself on several occasions wishing that it was I debating Gore...

When Gore made his disruptive commemtaries about Russia already having a different stance, I would have said, "that's right Al, with your leadership we can't get them to do anything we want them to. If they were dealing with a US administration they could trust, perhaps it would be different."

I also wanted Bush to hammer home that America is tired of fancy politicians conducting business as usual in Washington.

Everytime Gore started talking about more government spending Bush could have asked if this was more Washington promises and then used his 'fuzzy math' line to put Gore on the spot asking him how he's going to do all these things without RAISING taxes.

THEN when Gore said he wouldn't raise taxes, Bush could have asked why anyone should believe this Washington-speak when the middle class is STILL waiting on the tax cut he promised eight years ago!

Luz
getting wound up...


[This message has been edited by Luzap (edited 10-04-2000).]

It would be nice to hear an actual answer to one of the questions, rather than the endless babble we were subjected to.

I got so sick of hearing about what they're promising to "do" for the American people. At least past candidates (Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, Dole) actually seemed sincere when they were lying to us. I could almost smell the BS coming through my TV last night.

It was obvious that Gore was definitely more prepared, more informed, more articulate and more intelligent.

Bush stumbled over words had a limited vocabulary and was often left standing for seconds at time trying to think of an appropriate answer.

One more thing...NEITHER candidate was obvious "winner" last night.

I agree with Cannibal... I'm SICK of the promises of what they'll DO for me... I really wish they'd do nothing but NOT screw up, NOT create new programs, NOT raise taxes, and NOT promise everyone a chicken in every pot.<BR>

TheFly,

Touche`!

Luz
just wanting the government to leave us alone...<BR>

Clint - I agree, there was no clear winner. They both probably kept both their sides happy and that was about it.

I laughed out loud when Gore told that story about the girl having to stand up during her chemistry class. What a bunch of crap. I'd be willing to bet that the chemistry class she's in is a lab class and everyone is standing up for the full class. Yes, there might be 37 students and only 36 desks, but everyone is at the lab tables and no one is sitting in the desks. I find it hard to believe that any student would have to stand up for the entire class because there is no room for one more desk. Why doesn't she pull a chair up to another desk and share with another student. Or use the teacher's desk?

The way it could have been:

AG: He is going to take 1of every 6 dollars from all of you ol' folk and use it to buy clubs to beat you down...and mulch the lawns of the top 1% of the richest guys in the country...you know who they are, the guys I play golf with and let rent Abes room on cigar night.

W: Thats just not so, I'm giving money to everyone...we're going to be beating people with the blocks of free cheese that I plan on taking away from all you poor folks...down in texas, you just have to get a job...like my daddy said..

AG: well my daddy was 2" taller than your dad.

W: but your daddy was so fat he couldn't even

AG: ITs not politically correct to make fun of over eater americans. so naaaaaaaa

W: That kiss you gave your wife the other day was reallly cute...i'll bet she learned how to use her tongue like that from Billy.

AG: ITs ok, As a liberal, we are supposed to share, and they used environmentally friendly condoms.

W: well she is so fat, her legs look like she got beat with a sack of Indian nickles...

BLAM BLIFF BLAMMMM whack.......

break em up boys
ag: dummy
W: I know ya are but what am I

blah blah blah

Cannibal: obviously, since they've got a spy in the Bush campaign, they knew how to respond to his assertions.

I dont watch these things because there's really nothing said.

The 'brass ring' in this election is the victor will get to pick approx 3 Supreme Court justices and therefore will actually affect the lives of at least 3 generations of Americans.

I was hoping you guys would talk about the debate. I'm a democrat b/c my entire family is democratic, my grandfather was a mayor for 12 years, worked for Senators, etc.

I thought they both acted like li'l whiners at times. Someone mentioned Gore's 'sighs', well, Bush would make weird lip expressions and he tried to crack a joke twice and it failed.

I think Gore is more polished and I think he knew more about Bush's plans than Bush did about Gore's plans.

I did find it funny that Bush used 'mediscare' and then said "Not only did he invent the internet, he invented the calculator." Pretty funny.

Gore did jump in and say "I agree with Bush on these issues and as a matter of fact I pushed them through congress" (paraphrasing) quite a few times. I thought he should have left that alone. He is a credit stealer.

Nonetheless, I like watching a train wreck as two kids fight. Actually, I kept waiting for the lights to go down, and theme music to play as Ventura took the stage to add his views. :-) Sorry, that's the wrestling fan in me.

I think it's silly to say one of them was a winner. Although, Bush did at times stumble for the right word(s) and he appeared out of his element. Exactly what Gore wanted.

I think they both were able to 'label' the other, but I thought it was pretty lame for Bush to try and connect Gore to Clintons 'ethical mistakes' in the White House. People are tired of hearing that and if he sticks to it, people will grow tired of it quickly.

I thought Gore knew all the topics inside out but was very overbearing in his presentation with all the interuptions and point pushing. I thought Bush was unprepared for a few of the topics and not on top of the ball all the time, and thus he was very passive on some issues. Personally I thought the "fuzzy math" and "scare tactics" lines were weak, people who respond like that either don't know the numbers to deny the charges, or can't deny the charges. Basically what he is saying in that regard is "Don't believe homeboy here, he don't know what he's sayin, but I do, I can't tell you why, but trust me and not him."

I also thought Bush got smacked around when it came to foreign policy. Gore came across as being much more competent and experienced there. I did find myself thinking though "hmm, do I want my president to sit across from foreign leaders and bore them to death or pronounce their name wrong."

Bush did a good job in relating to average Joe I thought. He kept things simple and didn't get into long, drawn out answers like Gore. I think that appealed to a lot of people who don't want to be bored by the president. I think he won a lot of sympathy votes for people who thought Gore was being the "overbearing, nerdy bully."

Frankly I think that this debate didn't do much to change too many minds. Both guys have problems. Their respective backers probably thought their guy won. If someone was leaning towards Bush maybe this debate moved them more towards Bush and vice versa for those leaning towards Gore. We'll see how the polls look today...

That "spy" story is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. It brings back memories of Ross Perot's paranoid ramblings.

Dumb to you cause it happened, I guess.

The Gore team did receive documents and a tape, they admitted it. You're not going to sit there and try to tell me they didnt take a little peek before sending the docs to the FBI?

Please.

Gore was better prepared, but he also fabricated a LOT of stuff... So if he's a good debater who makes up stuff does that mean that he'll be a good president who makes up stuff and outright lies to the American people?

Bush was sincere and straight shooting. He did stumble over words, but he didn't make up stories about his mother's drugs, the child standing in the classroom, Love Story, or the Internet...

I can tell a liar folks... And I will not knowingly put a liar in the White House...<BR>

Mile High Mania,

I agree with most of what you said, but I have to point out something.

Thety were talking about Gore's illegal activeties in the White house - not Clinton's.

Gore was hip deep in the illegal campaign fund raising going on over there (and that's been proven).

Don't buy the liberal spin that 'that was Clinton, Gore is different'.

Luz
just setting the recoprd straight...<BR>

DEBATE BACKFIRE: GORE CAUGHT IN HIGH SCHOOL FIB? PRINCIPAL SAYS 'NEW LAB EQUIPMENT' CAUSED CLASS CRUNCH

Vice President Al Gore was caught in a High School fib during Tuesday night's nationally televised presidential debate when he claimed a Florida public school was so overcrowded a student was forced to stand during science class!

"They can't squeeze another desk in for her so she has to stand during class," Gore explained while telling the story of 15-year-old Kailey Ellis of Sarasota High. "I want the federal government, consistent with local control and new accountability, to make improvement of our schools the number one priority so Kailey will have a desk and can sit down in a classroom where she can learn."

Sarasota High School principal Daniel Kennedy on Wednesday morning called Gore's debate story 'misleading at best'.

"His facts are inacurate," Kennedy declared on WFLA 970 am in Tampa. "There was $100,000 worth of lab equipment waiting to be unpacked in the room, that's why the room was crowded. We have no students standing." <BR>

Fly ... I'm not saying that Gore is an angel, but if you think Bush is the most responsible and upstanding choice, then you're nuts.

I doubt that there are any candidates out there without some skeletons in their closets. It's the lesser of two evils.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>I think Gore is more polished and I think he knew more about Bush's plans than Bush did about Gore's plans.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mile High,

I agree and I'll take it a step further...

Gore new more about Bush's plans than Bush himself did.

I'm not saying that the Republican view necessarily wrong on some of these issues. All I'm saying is that the Republican voters got stuck with a sorry candidate.<BR>

Now wait, how do you know that what he was saying last night was fabricated? And how do you know that Bush was being sincere? You are assuming this. IMO, Bush just didn't know the numbers to come back with. I don't call "fuzzy numbers" being sincere...

LOL@#29.

Gore is his worst enemy. His best chance of being elected is to just shut up.

What a shocker. All the conservatives feel that Bush "won" the debate, & all the liberals feel that Gore "won" the debate.

It kind of reminds me of NCAA football.

Luzap, I agree about the fundraising stuff. But, I think Bush and some republicans still want to tie Gore to the 'intern' scandals.

"Bringing respect back to the White House"
That's what I don't like. Ok, so Clinton's a dirty li'l bastard. Fine - he's out and Gore shouldn't have to fight that stigma.

Well, I'm sure this take will be argued by the more conservative members of the BB, but here goes:

I think Gore did a 'better' job in the debate.

Gore used repetition mixed with quantitative analysis to get his message across ("Bush is for the Rich"). I think this strategy was fairly effective and Bush seemed pinned down, unable to get as specific with his own plans or to refute Gore's 1% mantra or dollar for dollar strategy. In contrast, Bush's message seemed to focus more on generalities and the current administration. Unfortunately for Bush, he tried to focus on the current admin's policies instead of their corruption. What his advisor's don't realize is that in a good economy, people aren't likely to look at the admins policies as failures.

The Fly should be a judge...not just anyone possesses the supernatural powers necessary to spot liars at will. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Does that mean you thought Bush was being completely honest? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

TheFly,

Thanks for that info. I was waiting for something like this to come out!

I hope Bush mops the floor with Gore on this one next week.

i also woulodn't be surprised if Lim Leahre (sp?) asked it to Gore as a question!

Luz
would love to see that...<BR>

I agree ... 'fuzzy numbers' and 'new math' were weak rebuttals. I was waiting for Bush to say,

"Please, ladies and gentlemen, READ MY LIPS, he's playing with numbers."

OK, just saw your post about the high school thing. Now maybe that was over the top on his part, or maybe that is what was said in the so called letter Gore got and that's what Gore used, or the principal is just trying to cover his *** . Either way, the story really didn't strike a chord with me, and I think Gore needs to stay away from these sappy antecdotes, because they come back to bite him in the *** ...

Dishonesty?

Bush claims his campaign has been infiltrated by spies.

'Nuff said.

I wouldn't say that Gore was the winner last night, nothing really came out of it. As far as changing people's minds.

I think Gore was more successful at achieving his goals and I think Bush kinda fell flat. But, you can't say Gore was a winner if he wasn't able to influence any voters last night. The recent polls don't show much movement.

So, "yes" Gore looked better ... but, nothing really changed. Call it a draw.

As for the classroom deal, the Dems will just say "Well, that school is in Florida, Jeb Bush put the squeeze on that Principal to call Gore a liar."

http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

If there is one thing I cant stand its a politician that has to make stories up just so we can stand there and go ahhhhhhh. Yeah lets do something about that. Gore came off fake, I'm better than you all with his sighs and I dont have time for you body language. Bush is no shining star either but at least he appeals to the everyday joe and that in my mind his who will decide this election.

A story about the student from Florida, or the old lady from Iowa does pull on the heart strings of the uniformed public. It is a total shame that the people don't hear the true story from the poeple and just hear the sob story from Gore.

What a freakin' joke.


------------------
bk

[This message has been edited by bkkcoh (edited 10-04-2000).]

Brad: I think that maybe that was a poor choice of words, but I dont think Bush has the time to explain the govt's useage of Baseline budgeting and referring to 'cuts' in spending when actually referring to a lower than expected increase in spending.

Probably could have thought of a better way to answer than 'fuzzy math'.

Jones: I think your right about that. The 1% mantra (tax the poor, to give to the wealthy) has been a long tested mantra of the Dems and has worked for many years. While misleading it is technically true. Since the richest 1% pay over 40% of the tax revenues, a tax cut would benefit them the most because they pay the most money. A flat tax is the only thing that would essentially nuke that argument. I dont see that happening anytime soon.

All Gore has to do is crush Bush on foreign policy issues. Bush will make a fool out of himself if he simply tries repeating names and figures that have been recently force-fed to him.

Clint: The Gore team admitted it. You can stop defending the Gore boys.

If the Republicans will get smart these sappy (and false) little ancedotes will cost Gore the election.

Clint, just because you don't posess this ability, pleaser don't assume that others of us don't. I have spent my whole professional life having to evaluate people rather5 quickly. It is a skill that can be learned.

Am I always right? NO.

But I am correct far more often than not.

Luz
realize that some may have skills that you don't...

Do you guys watch Southpark?

Instead of blaming spies, Bush should just blame it on the illusive 'underwear gnomes'.

http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

xxx000x,
wondering if a Southpark reference kills this thread

if Bush is elected, how long do you think it will take for my paycheck to increase due to lowered income taxes?

I'll be counting the days no matter who is elected.

My guess is never.

The Woodman & the Scarecrow. No heart, no brain. I'll still take the one with the brain.

not blaming spies...all Im saying is that Gore team did get some debate prep materials from the Bush camp. Dont really care how it got to Gore's folks, but do you honestly think that they didnt peruse the information before turning it over?

I would be pissed the Rep's didnt do it, if the situation were reversed.

Luzap,

That's stupid. You don't have any more ability to spot liars than anyone else...although I'm sure that ego of yours tells you differently. If The Fly was a liberal, you would have a totally different opinion, and you certainly wouldn't be defending him/her.

I'm trying to look more at fundamentals.
1. Bush doesn't scare me on foreign policy because I think that Cheney will be an excellent advisor in that area.
2. The Supreme court nominations. I used to be a little pro choice(bad for a catholic)..but i held some twin babies that were born at the end of the second trimester, and still viable for abortion...my opinion changed right there, This issue will be major with the next 3 justices decided.

3. Gore talks out of both sides of his mouth. He quickly takes credit for Postives from the Clinton era, but sidesteps any blame for the bad....you have to take both sides of the coin.

4. I watched Bush on Larry King last week, and he appears much much more intelligent on that type of atmosphere...and will do better in the next debate styles.

Then again, I could be wrong. "Salesman" is a euphamism for "liar". Maybe you can spot them.

Guys, we can all spot a liar, any time a politian speaks regardless of who it is. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/tongue.gif




------------------
bk

About me being the judge... I would be very fair... I can vote for an honest man, liberal or conservative... It turns my stomach to vote for people who can't be trusted... And I'm sure I have... But I am not knowlingly voting for dishonest folks...

As far as knowing if Al is lying or not and being the judge I follow a simple rule. You make a statement and then the facts don't support it.

Clearly, the school story is NOT factual, according to the press. The drug/dogs/mother story was not factual, again according to the press.

I don't have to be a judge. If the stories are rebutted in the press with facts and first-hand witnesses, then Al is hurting himself and showing himself to be a liar...

Has Bush lied? Probably. Someone please show me a confirmed story of Bush lying...<BR>

Just wondering, do any of these "personal" stories from either side appeal to anyone? I find it all fake when Gore starts talking about some schoolgirl or Bush starts talking about "the Jones family" or whatever. I know examples are a good way to get your point across, but to me it feels like both candidates use people for political reasons. I think it would be more appealing if they just said "If you are making this much, his is what you can expect" rather than "I talked to Joe Shmo the other day and he was telling me about (insert sob story here)..."

Clint: apples and oranges. you're looking at the federal withholding on your check and equating that to 'lower taxes'.

Taxes are what you pay on April 15th. You dont 'pay' taxes from your paycheck. You can increase your paycheck by adjusting your W-4 withholdings or work more.

If you look at the amount of taxes you pay on your form 1040 and divide that by your gross receipts you might actually see a decrease in percentage if Bush is elected. If Gore is elected, I honestly couldnt say the same.

The "old lady from Iowa" story about picking up cans so that she could drive her Winnebago out there to be at the debate, didn't pull at my heart strings ONE BIT. Because she's been all over the Des Moines news for the last week about how Gore paid her several thousand dollars to come out there and show her face.

I'm an independent and I don't really like George Bush. But you liberals on here make me sad. Would you readily accept a bold-faced, cocky, conceited, LIAR in the White House if it meant that the Republicans wouldn't win?

------------------
Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator
Jimmy Raye for President...anything to get him out of Kansas City
[i]More Moreau</I>

All the topics debated about Bush's "plan" are on the Bush website. The information is available to the public, no "spy" was needed.

Well Clint, I guess you're just ignoring my admonishion to realize that some people may have skills that you don't. IMO, to deny that is what's stupid.

Yes Clint, I can determine who is lying to me better than some other people. On the same token, I know people that have better observational skills, more experience, and faster minds than I that have far better ability in this area than I do.

For you not to realize this is... naive.

Luz
open your mind and look around you...

Cannibal: again, Gore's team admitted getting debate prep materials from the Bush camp. You telling me that they didnt review them for 'talking points' and the like?

Cmon, they did. It helped Gore. You should be glad.

Damn ... gotta go to lunch, I'm sure I'll miss about 60 replies in that time...

Cannibal,

Of course, no spy was needed, however, one was used.

The indisputable fact remains that the Gore camp came into possession of taped debate rehearsals.

What remains to be proven is that this guy will do anything to become President.

------------------
Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator
Jimmy Raye for President...anything to get him out of Kansas City
More Moreau

[This message has been edited by htismaqe (edited 10-04-2000).]

I'd put my ability to spot a liar up against anybody's.

If you don't think both candidates were obviously lying through their teeth last night, your ability to spot a liar is non-existant.

Specifically when Clint?

Luz
testing his challenge to put his ability up against anyone's...

Spies. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

Luzap,


Every answer, almost every word. NOTHING these 2 promised will occur.

Most of their "answers" didn't even relate to the questions put to them.

The whole thing was one big pile of BS from start to finish.

ALL candidates lie. ALL politicians lie. It is BS to sit here and say one side is honest and the other side is lying through their teeth. If either one of these guys get in office there are going to be times where they lie to us. This has been happening for a VERY long time. As far as lying about the antecdotes, I think it looks bad and like I said before I think using these stories is very unappealing. But how big a deal are these "lies"? The perscription drug thing may not have been a true story, but it had a point to make which is in the disparity between drug prices. And the school story may have been inaccurate, but it made an accurate point about class sizes, and I can vouch for that firsthand. I just think Gore in relating these stories came across as "fake." However, I do not consider these "lies" serious because of the point behind them...

So when Bush said he wanted to give an accross the board tax cut, you think that was a lie?

Luz
doling out rope...

I have to agree with Clint and Cannibal on a few things:

- Campaign platforms rarely survive after the election
- Reality has a way of changing the issues and needs
- Personal interest stories are drivel and boring. They're a blatant appeal for the women's vote
- Lying and politicians do usually go together. It is refreshing when you meet a politician who doesn't lie.

I don't think Gore had a clear debate victory. He had numbers, details, stiffness and arrogance.

I don't think Bush came off with a victory either. He was folksy, down-to-earth, sincere, and used commonsense. But he lacked depth in some areas of the debate, such as foreign policy.

I will be very interested in the next two debates to see how these guys go again...<BR>

However, I do not consider these "lies" serious because of the point behind them...

IOW, the END justifies the MEANS, right? Wrong. I know this has been the MO of the last 8 years, but I think it's wrong.

Be straightforward about your goals. Making up stories ruins your credibility on the issue. The fact that these 'scare' tactics works is really what is pathetic.

There was one other line that I hated to hear from Gore. When asked about the gas issues the best he could come up with was that he would invest in "alternitive fuels". Oddly I think we have been doing that for a few decades now and have almost nothing to show for it other then a couple races each year by people laying down in a single person solar powered vehicle with no sort of lighting, brake lights, turn signals or the like. I'm sorry, but I believe if we have the oil lets get it and use it, and to heck with opec countries. Most of them don't like us and use their money to buy weapons to use against us.

On the other side of the coin, bush probably upset people with comments about lowering the restrictions on companies.

Morphius
Easily frustrated.

.

[This message has been edited by DaWolf (edited 10-04-2000).]

Was I the only one that noticed that AL Gore was only campaigning and not answering the questions? Jr. at least answered the questions asked by Jim Lehrer.

The one thing that I saw was how each candidate carried himself. Bush calm, cool, collected, and to the point. Gore, flaky, huffing, puffing, pouting, and spouting out lots of information (but not much to the question asked).

I personally think that Bush probaly won more voters than Al Gore did. Those who favor Gore, probably still favor him, same for Bush, but I think more undecided voters will choose Bush over Gore based on the debates. Bush acted as a leader, Gore acted like a spoiled brat.

As far as issues- I think people who are not already decided on a party choose the better man. (Looks, overall perception- from the responses of the undecided voters interviewed you could see this in their comments)

As far as the media- is there any impartial media out there. If it was up to CNN and all the others- Gore would have already won. They are very impartial.

This should be a very close election, and I think there will be a record turnout this year.

"Be straightforward about your goals. Making up stories ruins your credibility on the issue. The fact that these 'scare' tactics works is really what is pathetic."

That is exactly what I said. However I think the majority of Americans don't consider the "lies" serious and think more about the point behind them, which is why Gore is still ahead in the polls.

Again, all politicians lie. I'd rather have no lies obviously, but these lies are not as serious as "I didn't have sexual relations with that woman" or "Read my lips" or "I don't recall" on the Iran/Contra stuff.

And Bush wasn't totally clean either, as he obviously tried to dodge around the supreme court question and sort of contradicted earlier remarks he and his party had made regarding the RU-486 decision...

With all the intellectual firepower that those two titans wield, it's sure a shame that one of them has to go be President for 4 years and thus deprive the Arts and Sciences of such considerable heft. Good think Gary Coleman is available to make up some of the loss. Is Todd Bridges out of jail yet?

KCTitus
what does this have to do with what i've said?
"IOW, the END justifies the MEANS, right? Wrong. I know this has been the MO of the last 8 years, but I think it's wrong."


I am an Independant and look for the candidate that supports many of the same issues I do.

AG wants tests to be "easier" and not culturally biased, therefor improving scores? Since when are facts not facts? 2+2=4

GW, whose wife has been a teacher, and children attended public school, wants children and teachers to be accountable for their education and test scores...I like that.
He doesn't support abortion. I like that
He won't try to take my guns. I like that
He isn't pals with Bill. I like that
He won't close more military bases, and will rebuild a failing military because slick willy tore it down. I have many many friends in the military, and most of them are angry about the way things have been run.


Al Gore will probably have a press conference about how he talked to Santa Clause and told him to stop giving so many gifts to the rich children and bring candy, toys and computers to the poor.<P>