The Dark Knight Rises *Spoilers* Thread
 

For anyone who has seen the movie and wants to discuss it.

If you played Arkham Asylum or follow the comics, you knew that Bane wasn't the son of Rhaas Al Ghoul, so you knew Talia was coming sometime. I liked knowing that, though, because it resulted in an hour's worth of "Oh shit! They are ****ed!"

I shall stay clean:

I had not one clue who it was though. I was plesantly surprised. I just wish they would've elaborated more on the relationship between Talia and Bruce

Let's be honest. If it wasn't for Heath Ledger this trilogy is a disaster.

Anyone else find it interesting that Bane was in an outfit similar to that of the Red Hood?

Bull ****ing shit.

Trolling?

Let's be honest -- you're trying to start shit because it amuses you.

The dynamic between Alfred and Bruce was one of the real highlights of the movie ( non- action wise)

I agree. Cain is by far the best Alfred.

I cant decide whether i thought banes voice was comical or creepy, but it did have a sort of jolliness in it that was unnerving. I know i couldnt understand a 3rd of what he said.

Tom hardy is big as ****.

i felt in this one the core of the cast wasnt diverse enough. In a sense that it was hard for me to suspend my belief and create the distance between the actors and actresses of their characters in the Batman Nolan-Universe. Nolan used WAY too many of the cast out of Inception, and it just reminded me of their roles and characters in Inception. That's the problem when you use too many of your "buddies" in a movie. No different than when Apatow uses the same group of actors in every comedy movie he makes, it gets stale really quick and it just made it hard for me to buy in.

Everybody in Inception but Leo DiCaprio was the entire core of the Batman movie and just like they complimented DiCaprio in Inception they did it to Bale in Batman, they just did a poor job of selling their roles because of the precedent being set as a core in Inception.

It was a good movie though, but you could tell it was Nolan's "guys."

LMAO....not even close man.

And to be honest while Hedger's performance was great, he surely wouldn't have gotten as much hype if it weren't for the way he died and story behind it all.

I couldn't disagree more with this take.

I also have a qualm with this. That scene in the beginning where Alfred talks about his daydream during Bruce's 7-year vacation from Gotham, in which he imagined seeing Wayne with a family, etc.? That scene was retroactively ruined by the TWIST! in the ending montage.

So much of TDKR has moments that you think are good character moments but later you realize that the only purpose they served in the film was to swerve the audience, to set up a patented Nolan TWIST!

This 1000x this

Can you explain this to me a bit more

What was the Twist?

The fact that Bruce was with Cat Woman? The Fact that he didn't die?

Just a little confused

I really enjoyed the bane story line - I am glad he broke batman's back but I think bruce healed a bit quickly.

I had a small qualm with Bane's voice - it sounded too clear quality wise - for being muffled - it seemed dubbed over to me - does this make sense

Yeah, that. The twist was that Wayne somehow didn't die when piloting the nuke out to sea.

They went back in post-production and re-did Tom Hardy's lines, iirc. There were a couple of spots in the movie where Hardy's movements/body language/eyes didn't match up to the dubbed lines, but only a couple.

The scene where bane fought batman and broke his back was almost sad to watch. It was unbelievable to see batman practically powerless.

"The shadows betray you, because they work for me."

Awesome line and interaction.

Wait, are you talking about TDKR or Breaking Bad? :D

(Sorry, cheap shot, had to)

Seriously though, it didn't bother me one bit. I guess because I didn't see it as a twist. I knew going in there was no way they were killing off Bruce Wayne.

I'm just THRILLED we got the breaking of the Bat. That's all I really wanted. Well, that, and a competent Catwoman.

I'm satisfied on both scores.

Of course it was a cheap shot. You'd get a much better shot, one that actually makes sense, if you paid more for it. (I can see your argument as to how BB puts characters in service of the plot. But TDKR puts characters in service of plot twists. That's a different thing)

My biggest beef with the film re: thing-being-included-only-to-set-up-twists is the whole pit prison deal. It seemed to be doing 2 things: 1.) show how tough Bane was because he alone escaped, and 2.) teach Bruce that if he no longer fears death then he can save Gotham from Bane (which would reinforce the sacrificing-himself-by-flying-the-nuke-out-to-sea bit, which was somewhat undone by the cop-out reveal that he somehow lived and he and Selina got clean slates and moved to Italy.

But the twist that it was Talia that escaped, not Bane, does harm to the film, IMO. Because...why was Bane tough then? Or smart? Bane couldn't figure out -- like I'm sure many of us did very quickly into the prison scenes -- that the rope was the only thing preventing you from escaping. He didn't escape through some sheer force of will. He was rescued, in fact (albeit after contracting whatever painful plague thing he got).

So Bane goes down like the chump that he was (accidentally) revealed to be as soon as Bruce next encounters him. Bruce doesn't learn any secret to beating Bane, because that lesson about fear-of-death doesn't end up applying to anything.

It all was working for me as the film went along...until the needless twist.

I thought the lesson learned in the prison was to have a healthy fear of death. That fear of dying enabled Bruce (minus the rope) to climb out of the prison. His whole life was about suppressing and fighting fear with fear I figured he had become immune to fear, hence him becoming a recluse, aching to be Batman again. The lesson he learned in the prison enabled him to move on and live life as Bruce Wayne.

That was my take at least.

Yes.

Losing a fear of death allows him to move on from being Batman? That's a solid take. Makes sense.

I wouldn't say losing fear of death. I would say regaining his fear of death. The League of Shadows groomed him to be the perfect mercenary, to be without fear which, in turn, made him Batman. To return to humanity, as Bruce Wayne, he needed that fear re-established.

Weakest of the trilogy BUT still good.

I'll definitely see it again in theaters!

Oh. But...that doesn't jibe with the scene that I saw last night. Unless I misheard some key bit of dialogue. Because it seems like you'd wear that rope because you were afraid of dying (from a slip of the foot or from not making that leap. Because you, in that prison, will have seen many people try and fail, and so you'll want a safety precaution).

Bruce even says in the prison how he's afraid of x, y, and z. That was before he learned the stuff that allowed him to get out of the pit.

One of us misheard. But the way I see it is if you are afraid of death and you attempt to climb that high of a wall, your going to give your max to ensure you don't die. The rope hindered his ability to climb because he knew that if he fell, he would be fine. Fearing death and climbing without the rope worked together to achieve his goal.

Did anyone else feel like the "court room" scenes were tailor made for the Joker?

Holy shit. Didn't think if that

Yeah to me Dr. Crane felt out of place as the judge.

yep

It kinda worked, as I was used to seeing him in court, but now that you mention it, it would be better suited with joker up there.

heh, honestly Banes voice might be my only complaint about this flick. It was too over-amplified, obviously created Post filming and not on set. Too fakey sounding. Then he had a few corny lines i didnt like...

"Oh what a nice voice" At the football game. :facepalm:



But loved the movie otherwise. Just brilliant stuff. Nolan is on a whole other level with these films. No other comic book film comes close IMO.

BTW, anyone catch the "Man of Steel" trailer? It was ok, but i was disappointed because it wasnt the longer one shown at Comic Con. It really didnt reveal much.

They redid it because people were having a hard time understanding him and hearing the lines. It was originally far more muffled.

It showed Cavil walking with a scruffy beard, with a Russell Crowe voiceover... Then Supes breaking the speed of sound through the clouds.

I didn't realize Christopher Nolan was doing the Man of Steel. Can't wait for this one.

He's only producing it. Zack Snyder is directing.

I think one big thing to consider here is that Bruce wasn't learning how to conquer his fear of death. He'd already done that.

He was learning how important fear is. The issue is he needed the fear back. I think that plays pretty heavily into his escape. Perhaps not so heavily into defeating Bane, I'll grant you. But I don't think it was entirely pointless or inconsequential.

The movie, to me, seemed to be like Batman Begins in reverse. The whole second half was more about Bruce vs himself than Batman vs Bane. Not arguing that as a strength or a weakness, just making an observation.

I'm fine with Bane being muscle and less brains. And in the end Batman still wasn't going to be able to defeat Bane on his own. But, again, I'm not sure that's what it was about.

And the Breaking Bad crack was just that. It was a crack. Me making fun of myself more than anything. Your comment sounded similar to some of mine re: that show. And I don't think it's worlds apart, frankly. We've seen characters on BB acting completely out of character for the sake of plot, and sometimes, even plot "twists."

Yes and no.

I had that same thought. And it would have been funny. But Joker was so much about chaos and anarchy that having him as a judge dolling out sentences in an "orderly" court would have felt really false, to me.

Is he even producing? I thought he was just "grandfathering" it. Whatever that means.

I think if Nolan has a producer credit on the film, it's token.

OK, I think I misheard some of the dialogue in the prison scenes then.

So what does re-gaining fear mean for Bruce? How was that relevant to Bruce saving Gotham? What is there to justify the prison even existing in the movie?

As I recall, the doctor comments on Bruce's fear of death. He says he isn't afraid of death, and the doctor tells him that's why he fails.

The rope eliminates the fear of death. If you don't make the jump, you know you're going to be fine.

I agree with this. The false choice nature of the exile-or-death sentencing was Jokeresque, but the whole ideological force behind the "Occupy Gotham" movement was not Joker's style. I think he'd have been trying to expose the League of Shadows' self-righteousness, if anything.

That's how I'm treating it. As advertisement, basically.

Well, I think, he's able to fight Bane harder. The doctor tells Bruce that the reason Bane is so powerful and fights so hard is that he's fighting through the fear. Bruce has to learn to do that.

I think it also helps justify Bruce's decision to escape death at the end. Bruce doesn't want to die. We all know Batman won't die. He'll live on as a symbol. Even before we're 100% sure about Robin John Blake becoming Batman 2.0, we know Batman will live on.

For me, it worked thematically. What bothered me about it was the cramming down our throats that the auto-pilot didn't work. Why did Batman lie about it at the end? To mislead the AUDIENCE. That's a foul as far as I'm concerned. If Catwoman would have just said, "what's the plan fly out, and eject..." and Batman hadn't answered and just given a look it would have meant more. Because the audience was already tracking that plot point. Batman's lie made his escaping death cheaper, to me.

I still liked it, but it was cheapened a bit.

Ah, I see how I was getting that twisted. To my mind, you want the safety rope because you're afraid to die. The rope means you won't. Going sans rope to me means you accept the consequences of failure -- it's a brave, less-fearful thing to me.

At any rate, I don't know what that lesson imparts to Bruce or to the film.

One of the major themes of the movie, obviously, is hiding. So much of it is about exile. Learning not to run and hide (from feelings, the past, enemies, fear, truth, etc) is a big lesson for almost every character in the film.

I agree that it was cheapened. Just in service to the plot twist.

Even if Bruce was unafraid to die, even if he never learned a lesson about fear, I'm 100% sure that if he could eject out of the plane safely and not die in a nuclear explosion then he would.

Regaining fear in the end humanized him and made him able to return to life as Bruce Wayne. The prison scene is vital to the story to introduce the main bad guy, Talia al ghul.

Damnit, I'm gonna' have to see this again, I think.

1. **** David Letterman
2. It was really good.

Lol I was thinking that toward the end of the movie too

I would say that Bruce Wayne had to find a reason to live again. The entire movie, from that standpoint, was building up to Bruce Wayne's decision to accept life over death. This was a story about the character becoming human again. The rope was about letting go of whatever is holding you back so that you can move on to the next step in your life. Bruce Wayne needed to do something like that before he could stop being Batman.

Batman was always going to live on. With or without Robin taking over, the symbol would live on forever. But the only way for Batman to be effective was for the legend to be handed over to someone else. I like the idea of "Batman" and "Catwoman" retiring together. Selina Kyle saved him. Quite a while ago I posted that Catwoman is a great villain if handled correctly. She needed to be that crazy chick that makes you go, "**** being a superhero. I'm with her." I don't know if it would have worked if she had been as crazy as I envisioned but it worked with her as his outlet to a more normal life.

This. Yes.

I went and saw this at the only IMAX theater in San Diego and when I got out there were news vans everywhere in the parking lot.

Also the ushers checked the emergency exits about every 10 min through the movie.

Really weird.

Possible new security proceedures after the shootings?

Was that the bat signal at the end? Does that mean he's still gonna be Batman? Will there be a Batman and Robin movie now?

I didn't see it so much as preparing the way for a new movie, but the idea that "Batman" will live on. One of the themes of these movies was Batman giving the city hope so that someone else would step up. I think he hoped it would be the police or Harvey Dent or ordinary citizens, but at least SOMEONE else was going to come to the aid of the city when it needed it in the future.

Didn't like this movie at all. Didn't care about Catwoman, didn't care about Robin. Bane was boring, the romance was uninteresting. Every bit of the first half of the movie was written to service a plot that wasn't that good to begin with. Batman spends so much of the movie down a hole that I really need to come to care about these other characters, and to learn about who these people are. But there were so few character moments in the film, instead it was all this neat and tidy, "Now let's show the bat tanks, that's going to be important" bullshit.

I haven't seen it since it first came out, but I don't recall the actress that plays Talia Al Ghul having that rack in Inception.

FYI Bale did change his tune mentioning last month that he'd be open to doing another Batman movie with Nolan if he wanted to. After this one it'd be a shame not to do a Batman and Robin film. The fans will be salivating for it. The chemistry between Bale and JGL is too good to pass up.

I doubt it will happen. Nolan's Batman is too old and broken. The only way it could be pulled off is the "Batman Beyond" kind of thing, where an old Bruce Wayne helps a younger man become Batman/Robin. I think that would suck, TBH.

It should be left where it is. It began and ended perfectly and should be left as the neat package it is.

I wouldn't mind either way I'm just saying that after this one the fans will be demanding more. A Batman and Robin movie would be sick but I'd be fine without it. But man...how awesome would that be?

There will definitely be more Batman flicks, but it will be hard for anyone to ever top or equal these. Which is awesome, but kinda sad, too.

True that. A fourth one with Batman and Robin (with Bale and JGL) is almost too good to pass up. It'd be like taking candy from a baby.

I'd see it, just because I'm a sucker for comic book flicks. But I know it wouldn't be as good as I'd want it to be.

One thing that they could be doing is relieving Bale from his role (since he said he would only do Batman if Nolan wrote another film) and prepping for the next Batman for a potential Justice League movie, in the event they decide to go forward with it. I can only hope.

Saw this last night & freaking loved it. It wasn't perfect, but I thought it was a damn good movie & I'll definitely be seeing it again.

I don't know how well it'd go over, and I'm not even that big of a Robin fan in general, but I could see them trying to make a Robin movie with Batman/Bale having a cameo, and I can see myself watching it. As awesome as it'd be to see Bale back, it wouldn't make much sense considering he retired & passed the torch to JGL.

It depends on what you made out of the movie and the ending. I made it to be that Batman could come back when the city needs him again (hence the bat signal) and that he would no longer have to do it alone with JGL becoming Robin. To me, that's ANOTHER huge cash cow. It would be insane to pass that up if you're Nolan. You could end it after the fourth one as well knowing that Gotham is safe knowing they have Batman and Robin. That's why the ending of TDKR was so perfect. It could either be translated as the end of Bale, or a possible Batman and Robin film. It was flexible. He did it on purpose IMO because he's not entirely sure this is the final film. It wasn't a definite ending. He's teasing the fans. How could you blame him? Money talks and the momentum is unstoppable.

I think the bat signal at the end can be interpreted one of two ways:

Batman's personal message to Gordon that he's still alive.

A message to criminals> Remember in TDK when gordon was on the roof with the other cop and made a comment about using the signal as a deterrent even if he never sees Batman. Use of the signal as a symbol to criminals to second guess if he's out there.

One place I have to nitpick - and I'm surprised that a Nolan film had this big of a continuity issue in it:

The Wall Street scene. Bane asks how long before the transaction goes through and is told either 8-9 minutes. (Don't recall exactly) Bane, his crew, and the hostages come barreling out of the SE on motorbikes while it is still daylight.

Somehow during the chase - in a less than 8 minute span - it's nighttime in Gotham.

Was I the only one that thought the movie was going to abruptly end when Alfred looked up at the cafe?

I think a Sopranos-like ending would have been incredible.

Or that Batman would come if needed (as Blake of course, but Batman none-the-less)