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-   -   NFL Draft Geno Smith is Sam Bradford (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=270160)

Messier 02-18-2013 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9413593)
Outside of his arm strength, I just don't see alot about Foles that would make me not take a chance on one of the top 3 in this class.


Apparently neither do the Chiefs, as we've been told the trade talks about him are overblown.

Yeah, I don't see it happening, most likely because it'd take a first or second.

O.city 02-18-2013 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messier (Post 9413607)
Yeah, I don't see it happening, most likely because it'd take a first or second.

Thats just wrong. And if thats what it would take, no way do you do it.


They say they want a high pick, likely meaning they want a 3 or 4 rounder.

DJ's left nut 02-18-2013 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9413575)
Also, if you're only going to draft a Qb who can be top 3 in the league, you might be waiting a while.

For no reason.

The dirty little secret is that it isn't necessary to have an elite QB to win like so many or saying. You just need to have a good quarterback to win.

Flacco ain't elite. Eli ain't elite. Big Ben ain't elite. Those guys are good in their own ways but each of them have massive holes in their games. Look at the list of SB winners and sure you have good QBs winning all of them.

But in recent history there have been maybe 3 instances of the best QB in football winning the SB - Brady (one of his wins), Manning and Rodgers. Brees is also pretty much a flawless passer, though I wouldn't have considered him the 'best'.

And frankly, I think it's going to get easier and easier to find credible QB play as we go forward which is why it really wouldn't surprise me to see the pendulum swing back towards defenses a little bit. Remember - if everyone's special, than nobody's special.

It's absolutely more critical than it's ever been to have good quarterback play but the funny thing is that it might now be less critical than ever to have elite quarterback play because of how the rule changes have bunched up the ranks. Suddenly the gap between the historic and the good (say, Montana and Ken O'Brien) is more easily bridged because the rules now allow the Ken O'Brien's of the world (Eli Manning) to hide their flaws.

It's really a fascinating time to evaluate the position and I could be way the hell off; it's just a thought.

BlackHelicopters 02-18-2013 07:10 PM

Landry Jones is Sam Bradford.

Messier 02-18-2013 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9413613)
Thats just wrong. And if thats what it would take, no way do you do it.


They say they want a high pick, likely meaning they want a 3 or 4 rounder.

I think they said, first they don't want to trade him at all, but that no way they'd do it for a fourth or even third. The local Philly press is saying they're talking about high picks to discourage trade talk. I think Kelly is hoping for Foles to win the starting job.

Sorter 02-18-2013 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop (Post 9413621)
Landry Jones is Sam Bradford.

Not even remotely close.

O.city 02-18-2013 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messier (Post 9413627)
I think they said, first they don't want to trade him at all, but that no way they'd do it for a fourth or even third. The local Philly press is saying they're talking about high picks to discourage trade talk. I think Kelly is hoping for Foles to win the starting job.

That may be.


People automatically think Vick is the best fit there, when they don't knwo what the hell Kelly's offense will look like.

O.city 02-18-2013 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 9413618)
For no reason.

The dirty little secret is that it isn't necessary to have an elite QB to win like so many or saying. You just need to have a good quarterback to win.

Flacco ain't elite. Eli ain't elite. Big Ben ain't elite. Those guys are good in their own ways but each of them have massive holes in their games. Look at the list of SB winners and sure you have good QBs winning all of them.

But in recent history there have been maybe 3 instances of the best QB in football winning the SB - Brady (one of his wins), Manning and Rodgers. Brees is also pretty much a flawless passer, though I wouldn't have considered him the 'best'.

And frankly, I think it's going to get easier and easier to find credible QB play as we go forward which is why it really wouldn't surprise me to see the pendulum swing back towards defenses a little bit. Remember - if everyone's special, than nobody's special.

It's absolutely more critical than it's ever been to have good quarterback play but the funny thing is that it might now be less critical than ever to have elite quarterback play because of how the rule changes have bunched up the ranks. Suddenly the gap between the historic and the good (say, Montana and Ken O'Brien) is more easily bridged because the rules now allow the Ken O'Brien's of the world (Eli Manning) to hide their flaws.

It's really a fascinating time to evaluate the position and I could be way the hell off; it's just a thought.

It's almost more about fitting the skills of the guy you have or using them the most. Like you've said eloquently about Flacco, he has middling accuracy intermediate and short, so throw it deep more times. Offsets each other.

I think the elite QB's will always give you the BEST chance, but I think, like you said, the difference between the best and the good, isn't exactly a huge leap like it once was.

Hammock Parties 02-18-2013 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 9413618)
For no reason.

The dirty little secret is that it isn't necessary to have an elite QB to win like so many or saying. You just need to have a good quarterback to win.

Flacco ain't elite. Eli ain't elite. Big Ben ain't elite. Those guys are good in their own ways but each of them have massive holes in their games. Look at the list of SB winners and sure you have good QBs winning all of them.

But in recent history there have been maybe 3 instances of the best QB in football winning the SB - Brady (one of his wins), Manning and Rodgers. Brees is also pretty much a flawless passer, though I wouldn't have considered him the 'best'.

And frankly, I think it's going to get easier and easier to find credible QB play as we go forward which is why it really wouldn't surprise me to see the pendulum swing back towards defenses a little bit. Remember - if everyone's special, than nobody's special.

It's absolutely more critical than it's ever been to have good quarterback play but the funny thing is that it might now be less critical than ever to have elite quarterback play because of how the rule changes have bunched up the ranks. Suddenly the gap between the historic and the good (say, Montana and Ken O'Brien) is more easily bridged because the rules now allow the Ken O'Brien's of the world (Eli Manning) to hide their flaws.

It's really a fascinating time to evaluate the position and I could be way the hell off; it's just a thought.

I agree completely with this.

We're probably at a point right now where you can win a SB with a top 10 QB. Anyone in the top 10 can beat anyone else in the top 10.

We're probably inching towards the point where if you half a top half of the league QB, you've got a chance, if the rest of the team isn't dogshit.

Which only makes the QB position more valuable, IMO.

It's gonna get easier to find a guy in the draft, so you might as well keep picking them high.

O.city 02-18-2013 07:21 PM

It's kind of like anything else. When someone gets something good, everyone else wants it and tries to get it. Then when everyone has it, you have to figure out the next best thing before anyone else does to be successful.

Sorter 02-18-2013 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoWalrus (Post 9413646)
I agree completely with this.

We're probably at a point right now where you can win a SB with a top 10 QB. Anyone in the top 10 can beat anyone else in the top 10.

We're probably inching towards the point where if you half a top half of the league QB, you've got a chance, if the rest of the team isn't dogshit.

Which only makes the QB position more valuable, IMO.

It's gonna get easier to find a guy in the draft, so you might as well keep picking them high.

Probably more than 10

Brady
Rodgers
Brees
manning
Manning
Wilson
Kaepernick
Flacco
Luck
RG3
Ryan
Rapist

threebag 02-18-2013 07:24 PM

I don't think Geno pears well with Bradford

Hammock Parties 02-18-2013 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorter (Post 9413659)
Probably more than 10

Brady
Rodgers
Brees
manning
Manning
Wilson
Kaepernick
Flacco
Luck
RG3
Ryan
Rapist

There you go.

Elvis Grbac probably would have been one of the better QBs in the league in this era.

The Bad Guy 02-18-2013 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 9413463)
Eh, people are idiots.

Being a good prospect doesn't guarantee you're going to be a good NFL player - such is life. Bradford was a very good prospect; he was an elite prospect before the shoulder injury worried people about his durability.

So if you take Bradford, remove the shoulder injury, increase his mobility and then give him the upside that if he fixes his footwork, his arm strength will be about 10% better, I'd say you're more than justified in taking the risk.

If this exact draft class were around in 2011, we'd never have the kind of conversations we're having right now. Luck/RGIII dicked this all up.

Geno Smith is easily the equal of many QBs that came before him and went #1 overall. He's a completely justifiable, sensible pick in a position of extreme need.

So naturally we'll take the 2nd best tackle prospect in the draft or a !@#$ing guard.

Yep to all of this.

Plus, Bradford walked into a team lead by a defensive minded HC and an OC that was basically on his own in Shurmur.

Having an offensive guy like Reid makes the selection even more desirable than the situation Bradford walked into.

SAUTO 02-18-2013 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls (Post 9413504)
yes, but I notice you did not say he's a star, which was my point. I like bradford, but he has disappointed imo. He's likely going to become a good player (not a bust), but I expected his progress to be better than this.

Imo bradford's last collegiate season was better than Geno's.

He threw for under six hundred yards in his last season.
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