need advice with family issue
 

Ok, so about 4 weeks ago, I get a call from my mom. she's sobbing as she tells me her fiance (my dad passed 4 years ago) has been verbally abusing her and shoving her and she has decided to have a restraining order and have him removed from the house. I applaud her, tell her I'm there for her, call him and let him know that I am aware of what has been going on, and as far as I'm concerned, he is out permenantly. My mother on the other hand, said things like "if he gets therapy and goes to AA, maybe I'll start by dating him again". She told me that he told her that my father never loved her or us kids. That's when it became personal for me. So I call jackass up, ask if all this is true, he beats around the bush, but eventually fesses up under the guise of too much drinking and some anger management issues. He promises he will get help but just loves my mom. I tell him I'm only 2.5 hours away and wont hesitate to come up there to make sure she is OK. I even let him know, I'm not afraid of a few nights in jail.

So, yesterday, I get home from a weeklong vacation. I call my brother, who my family will be staying with when we go up for Thanksgiving. Through casual conversation, I find out that jackass is back in my mothers house, and plans on being there for Thanksgiving.

I call my mother, she says he's trying very hard and if he screws up, he is out. He has been to a counselor once since this, and no AA meetings or anygthing like that, though he is reportedly on "medication" now.

I told my mother that I'm not comfortable taking my children up there, and since I wasn't the one that made the situation what it is, then perhaps he could leave the house for the day while we are there. She refused, so I said **** it then, we aren't coming. She gets all pissy and tells me all the things she did for me as a mother and I should come up for her. I'm not going on principal, not to mention, I'd be uncomfortable and might even get in the guys face. Am I doing the right thing? Should I just eat my principles, and go and be a good little son and sit there and act nice? What say you Dr. CP?

Stick to your guns

I wouldn't go. **** that.

This.

Have sex with him at Thanksgiving with the door UNLOCKED (vital). When your mom walks in on you two going at it she'll want nothing more to do with him.

Tell her all the wonderful things she did for you as a mother are the reasons you will not be going.

It seems to me like he shouldn't push you out of your own family. Just go and keep your distance from him. Your mother will eventually have to be the one who makes the final call on the guy, and you can't control that.

This is tough situation for you sorry you have to deal with that asshole. That is all he is. Sure he can be kind one minute but the next you just never know. I know people can change but it doesn't sound like he will even if he puts on a good show for the family. When he is alone with your mom that is when he will revert back to abuse. I can just tell that's what is going on.

Got to protect your mom somehow.

sounds fair to me.
she's making her choices...you're making yours. no since in going somewhere for a holiday where you already know it's going to be a shitty time.
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last thing you want to do is have your kids see you do something silly by going.

Stick to what you think is right...

Are you?

I don't know what your relationship with your mom is like, but if you are really "there for her" then you should be there.

he can't protect her if she's allowing this guy back into her house. it's on her.
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Not going is unfair to your kids but they're resilient and will be fine. More importantly, it sends a message to the family and the abuser that you're not going to condone that man and that you aren't joking around about it. You should be careful that your message to your mother is consistent and focused on the abuse, not all the other dynamics of the relationship.

I agree with this,however find out what his favorite dessert is and have your mrs make a special antifreeze treat just for him.

Go and just stare at the guy menacingly the entire time.

This.

Showing respect to your mom is also respecting your principles.
Lack of self control or allowing him to get between you and your mom would not be respecting your principles.
You can always excuse yourself and just leave if an issue arises.

You don't have the right to tell your mother how to live her life.

You DO have the right to tell how you're going to live YOUR OWN. You also have the right to let her know you don't approve of her letting herself be a doormat for a man.

You're absolutely doing the right thing.

I thought about just sort of going and being cordial, but I said I wasn't going to support this guy being around until he got treatment, and then, I was going to see it develop slowly. It's been 4 weeks ffs. I even told her I'd be happy to drive up in a few weeks to do lunch with her and maybe someday, I'd come to feel differently about him. I actually liked the guy until I heard how he was treating her. I think I have to stick to my guns here, but hell, I could also be nuts. My brother is going, and my sister is conveniently out of town.

And enable her?

I don't agree.

I'm not saying anything about your mom, but women who stay in abusive relationships do it because they like it. You're absolutely right to do what you're doing.

I wouldn't take my kids anywhere near that b@stard.

I like this approach best of the ones posted so far. As long as your mother wants him there, I don't know why you (tooge, not Rain Man) think it's a good thing to put her in a position of having to choose between the two of you.

Thats really where I'm coming from. I have a good relationship with my mom. Unfortunatley, we are almost too much alike and can be hard headed toward each other. I feel if I give in here, then I've set precedent. Not to mention, she's been with the guy for a year and a half, and said he's been abusive for the past year. She just told me 4 weeks ago. I've got ZERO trust for this guy. Unfortunately, the part of my mother that I felt secure about died along with my dad.

Because she is going to HAVE to choose.

We're not talking about love, we're talking about ABUSE.

There is no "choice" here.

Well, I don't trust him, and I'm not the one that caused all of this, so why should I have to "choose" to go and be uncomfortable just to be at thanksgiving for my mom. The guy knows how I feel, and if I were him, I'd stay away for a day or two and give the rest of us some time. Of course, I don't beat women either.

Hit him with some laughing gas while hes not paying attention and pull his teeth.

Invite her to your house instead.

These

Let's do a scenario analysis. Others can chime in if I'm missing something.


Scenario 1. You go and he goes. You both want to be with your mother on the holiday. You both have equal access, and it shows that he can't control her access. It's a draw until she decides that he has to go.

Scenario 2. You don't go and he goes. It shows him that he can further control your mother just by showing up. He limits her interaction with you, and he wins. I don't think it'll force a long-term breakup, so there's no direct win here other than maybe a short-term win by creating Scenario 3.

Scenario 3. You go and he doesn't go. If he doesn't go at your mother's request, it may put her more at risk for abuse later, though I think it's a long-term win. However, it probably causes her some short-term resentment toward you and won't do anything to solve the long-term problem. It's a win for you, but with some damage.

Scenario 4. You don't go and he doesn't go. Your mom eats a bunch of turkey and falls asleep on the couch during the Lions game.

I mean, will your kids wonder why they're not going to grandma's house, or will it be no big thing??

I mean, if your kids don't notice or won't care, then **** it, don't go.

If there will be awkwardness and tension for you kids to pick up on...the **** it, don't go.

I wouldn't take my daughter to some bullcassel like that.

Short of kicking his ass for touching your mother, you're doing it right.

Your mother is being abused. You can't support that in any way.

If you go, you go alone and you have a serious discussion outside with Capt Morgan.

Stay away from bad people and keep your kids away from bad people. You can't control your mother, and if she continues to associate with this loser, she can do it without her children and grandchildren. Tell her that you will come a different time when he won't be around or that she can come visit you sometime without him.

This isn't about sending a message to either of them. It's about protecting yourself and your kids.

That's a pretty patronizing position to take. We're talking about the word "abuse" (actually "verbal abuse") but you don't have any idea what that means (and neither do I), so let's not go off half-cocked. I suspect that tooge's mom is old enough to make her own relationship decisions.

I think it's good that this guy knows that tooge is aware of whatever it is that his mother has told him, but I don't see what good it does for tooge to take a harder line than his mother does at this point unless his goal is to cause his mother grief.

Either don't go, or go and kill him to death.

Maybe slip up the night before and make sure he's eating applesauce for Thanksgiving is an option.

I can't imagine being in your shoes and not losing my mind with rage with some new guy doing that to my mother, and talking shit about about my father. You're a stand up guy.


Maybe if she wants to talk about history, remind her that you weren't raised to tolerate that treatment and abuse of women and that she knows it's not right. I would guess she's just afraid of being alone.

Support and love your Mother. Things like this tend to turn out poorly. Praying for you and your Mother.

In situations like this, I think it's best to use the "How would the Sons of Anarchy handle the situation", then proceed from there.

I wouldn't have read any further if I were you. Young, and old, both telling you the same thing. You are doing the right thing. And you can use it as a lesson for your children.

Always listen to your mom:D If you pull out on her now, she could get harmed etc. Get involved on a respectful level -- let this go her way and the minute something occurs that supports your angle, confront her with your thoughts and this way, she will be more likely to consider your lead on this. it's not easy, this thing called life and it seems most complicated between family members.

FYP.

I've never seen Sons of Anarchy, so I needed to make it something I'd understand.

As far as I'm concerned, what this guy has done is irreparable. Don't go. Tell your mother you are there for her, but you can't help her unless she wants it. I'm sure your mom knows what this guy is doing is very, very wrong, but she may be afraid to be alone. Sad, sad situation.

Let's look at it differently.

What would you want your children to do if you died and your wife was dating an abusive man (far enough in the future when they would be the same age that you are now)?

You would be there right? Are you worried that he might overpower you and light into your mom or your kids while you're licking your wounds? This just has the ring of rationalization to me. Your mom didn't take your advice and it irks you. If you're too uncomfortable, then by all means stay home. But let's be clear that you're putting your feelings ahead of your mom's if you make that choice.

If this guy is really a serious, imminent threat to your mom or anyone who shows up at Thanksgiving, then maybe you and your siblings should be holding an intervention instead of worrying about where to have Thanksgiving.

I'd still have her come to your house. Then you are on your turf. He could come if he wants... I suspect he wouldn't... and if he chooses to not let her come to your house, then he looks like the bad guy that he is.


EDIT: and while it may be an inconvenience for you, you could always offer to go get her, and take her back home if necessary.

What would Jules Winnfield say and do?



Maybe if you decide to go, you can offer to lead the family meal prayer and recite
Ezekiel 25:17



Offering to have dinner at your house might be a good option too.

My MIL is an absolute bitch of epic proportions. My wife and I have nothing to do with her, and her only contact with our oldest daughter has been mediated by the courts (she has no contact with my youngest daughter). My wife's step-father's family disowned him (step father is actually a pretty good guy) when he entered into a relationship with my MIL. Disowning him only drew him closer to my MIL.

If you don't go to support your mother, you are only pushing her closer to the bastard. She will feel as though she has lost her family and will turn to the one person she feels she has a close relationship with--no matter how bad and destructive that relationship is.

Maybe you could invite her (without her significant other) and your brother's family to your place. I know it is inconvenient for you, but it is a minor inconvenience compared to the importance of your relationship with your mother.

Have you explained to her that you don't feel comfortable having your children (her grandchildren) around the guy?

Yeah, the sticky part to all of this is what happens when you don't show up? Does that create some 'issues' that become amplified when Mr. Good Guy decides to drink a few that night? You never know how things can escalate...

If you're there - you can always use your best judgement to leave and/or have the children leave the room/house while you address the situation.

Sounds like your mom is in a bad place and feels that she needs this guy's company because ... well, she doesn't like being alone and while this guy is likely 100% bad news, she tries to deal with it.

Either way, it's nearly a lose/lose situation for you. Do you deprive your kids time at grandmas? Do you leave your mom high and dry at an emotional time of year? This could make her tie to this guy even stronger.

I dunno... I do feel bad for you and your mom though. I think you need to suck it up and do what's right even if you don't like it or think it's best. There's a time and place to stand your ground, I'm not certain this is it.

oh and build your relationship with the BF -- let him feel ya. If she likes the guy, it's worth your time. It's normal for a son to protect your mom.

I would not go. Your kids come first and that's not a good environment. Eventually, he's going to keep returning to his patterns and show his true colors again, and hopefully your mom won't get hurt in the process.

By not going you’re not only hurting your mom your letting the doucher win. He will have then successfully chased you away from your own family. Don’t know if that’s his goal or not but **** him regardless. Go and make him the uncomfortable one. Keep your trap, mostly, shut but make sure he leaves knowing that if he ever lays a finger on your mother in anger he’ll finish his life eating through a straw and shitting in a bag.

This. You're a father first and a son second.

So your suggesting that he appease her and allow it to continue to happen, even though he doesn't approve?

I'm guessing his MOTHER raised him better than that.

This is the way to go. You can do this and shield your kids, but if you don't go ... he wins and your family loses, including your mom.

You can view it as a teaching moment too... one day, your kids will grow up and how would you like them to handle a similar situation? I don't know how old the kids are, so they may not be ready for it.

The good news is that YOU can be ready for it and YOU will be ready for it... plan accordingly and do right by the family.

FYP

This is a good point. If you go, he'll be more uncomfortable and insecure than you will be. You win just by showing up and not talking to him.

The point about the kids is valid, so if you don't want your kids to see the discomfort, just go on your own and do their Thanksgiving at home. Two turkeys never killed anybody unless someone has a hunting story that I haven't heard.

Third.

How you play this teaches your kids a significant lesson about how they are to deal with relationships. The last thing you want is for your daughter to think it's OK to be treated like this by a man, and your sons sure shouldn't learn that it's ever OK to treat a woman like this.


I have a serious protective streak and my initial impulse response might not be the best solution. I'm honestly a little torn, but I think remembering that your utmost important responsibility to your children and their protection is your best true north.

I want my kids to raise their kids, not try to protect me from my own screwed up choices. That's how it works.

I'm not saying that's the wrong way to look at it... but, this is his mother. I'd like to think that if something like this were to happen in my family, that my brother or I would support my mom. I'd like to know that down the road... my boys would do what they need to do to support their mom.

I don't know if his mom has a history of bad decisions or not - is this just abnormal and a bad deal because she's trying to live her life for the first time in forever without his father (died 4 years ago) and she's just in a hell of a bad relationship? If so, then he needs to support his mother and not bail out on her - regardless of how f'ed up this could be...

Family is family, he doesn't show up and the drunk boyfriend wins and further dictates how life rolls.

I've been waiting and reading before I responded just to clear up my feelings, and this is it. I think by not going you're pushing her closer to him.

Good luck to you and your mom, whichever route you travel.

1 trip there on Thanksgiving isn't going to fix that.

The drunk boyfriend is there 24x7 and has complete control of the situation.

Him showing up on Thanksgiving only means the BF has to wait until he leaves to start being an asshole again.

Not showing up tells his mother loud and clear that he doesn't approve.

This isn't about the BF, this is about his mother.

I've no tolerance for women who tolerate abusive men.

All true. But, there's a lot we don't know... and if this is a situation where she's kind of crying out for help, then he's leaving her in a dire situation. This is about his mother, which is why I'd go ... maybe you leave the kids at home, but I think I still go if I'm him.

Again - lots of back story here that is not known.

Go, but leave the wife and kids at home for Thanksgiving in the evening. Make sure your mom knows she is welcome to come see the grandkids any time, or you will bring them to see her anytime Stumbly McDrunk isn't around. You aren't using the kids to control her behavior, but that you don't trust a man who cusses and shoves women, therapy or not.

Showing your Mom and boyfriend that you can't just be shoved out of the picture will send a nice message.

Curious what your brother's thoughts are on all this?

You're all warm and fuzzy, aren't ya big guy. Again, there's a lot here that we don't know. I'm reading this as a deal where his mom had been married to his father for most of their lives - he died 4 years ago and this may be the first relationship she's been in since then. If so, it's unfortunate that she chose poorly.

I'm also taking a guess here that if that is true - she doesn't have a wealth of dating experience and much like that generation, is used to the guy calling the shots - thereby resulting in her having no freaking clue as to how she might escape this abusive relationship.

If all of that is bullsh and she has a history here... then, sure let her figure it out. But, that's where I'm coming from with my commentary.

I actually went through a similar situation a few years ago with my mother in law. The guy wasn't alcoholic though, but he had mental issues. He didn't work because of it.
They came to visit once and at like midnight he was downstairs making noise so we told him to be quiet, and he started yelling and screaming, so we told him to leave. Her mom sided with him for quite some time afterwards, but we knew the guy and his character. He sort of brought her down to his level. She stopped working and they sat around the house and got fat. We wouldn't go to her house when he was there, and he wasn't welcomed at ours. Eventually, she saw the same things we did and got rid of him.
I think the problem with, "putting aside differences for your mom," is that he can pretend it's ok. If you disapprove then you disapprove. No sense being fake. You can still be nice to your mom - invite her over without him. Go places without him. You don't need to pretend the guy is ok. If he wants to show for a long time that he's a square guy then you change your opinion then.

Good God, it happened TWICE?

Another way to look at this - and it depends on the family dynamics, the relationship you had with your mom and dad - how would your father like you to handle this situation with your mother... his wife?

Consider it from that lens and proceed with caution.

Allow what to continue to happen?

You're an enabler, plain and simple. I'd kindly tell her how to fix her situation, and I'd even help fix it. I'm not going to be around it though, and neither would my kids. This is her choice. A guy like this doesn't change.

Ah, I see. There's definitely a time and place for tough love... depending on the back story, my commentary may change. If there were a history of this with the boyfriends, there's no chance that I'd be there or put my kid's through it.

My first instinct was the "Stick to your guns." and "don't go." response.

Then, I realized that the "if you don't go and he does, then he wins, because he controls her life." response is correct.

I say go, but leave the kids. It lets the guy know that you aren't going to chicken out just because he is there, but it lets your mother know that this relationship has consequences (no grandkids around). Your mom will blame you for not going, but not seeing her grandkids is the REAL and ONLY punishment she will understand.

This way you both stick to your guns and stick by your mom.

The only way him going to Thanksgiving dinner helps her is if she LEAVES WITH HIM afterwards.

Him showing up proves nothing since things go back to "normal" the minute he closes the door.

This.

Abuse.

Well, I suppose he should just say adios to Mom and he'll catch her on the flipside when she kicks Mr Wonderful to the curb.

And by "abuse", what do you mean?

Another vote for "Don't Go."

God you can be a dickhead sometimes.

Read the original post...

she's sobbing as she tells me her fiance (my dad passed 4 years ago) has been verbally abusing her and shoving her and she has decided to have a restraining order and have him removed from the house.

Do you REALLY want to imply that she's a liar or is too naive to understand what actually constitutes abuse?

She said he's abusing her. Therefore, we can only assume she's being abused, unless of course you're implying one of the above.

Nah, I'm not worried about danger to my family or anything like that. I'm hoping the guy gets help. I'm just not over it yet, and I don't think a person changes in 4 weeks. Not worried about being overpowered either. I wish my mother could see it from my side.