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Saul Good 11-16-2012 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJizzles (Post 9123544)
I agree with your sentiment regarding Withey and the NBA.

But, you're the one who threw the 6'5" forward jab too.

If you watched Withey last year during the tournament you know he can compete with anyone, from a defensive standpoint.
That wasn't a jab at Withey. The Mocs' starting power forward is 6'5. Those guys don't exist in the NBA.

Michigan State has a front court that compares to NBA size, and Withey didn't control the boards nor the paint. He had eight points, seven boards, no assists, and two blocks, and the Spartains shot 52% from the field. He looks more like Jeff Withey circa 2010 than 2011.

I think Withey is an outstanding off the ball/weak side defender. I think he struggles when teams pound on him with a big man of their own. In college, you can get away with just being taller than everybody. That doesn't work in the pros.

Maybe he proves me wrong and plays himself into a lottery pick. I just don't see it.

Mr. Laz 11-16-2012 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lzen (Post 9123491)
Man, are you that slow? I was making an exaggeration to emphasize my point. Simien had sharp fundamentals.
so basically you're just full of shit.

you exaggerated my post, so you could exaggerate your post, so you could bitch like a child.

The reality is that the coach for our bigs just left and our bigs look a bit rough.

Is it just coincidence? Just the coaching staff settling in? Just this group of bigs are a little raw?

I dunno ... i made no conclusions, merely an observation.


But Hey, nothing brings out your bullshit parade like any post from me.

sedated 11-16-2012 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Too (Post 9123563)
So you don't think Withey had an advantage playing next to Robinson on the defensive end? Robinson was a ****ing load in the paint and on the block. Players had to try to go around him which created the opportunities for Withey to get blocks from the weak side. Robinson could force players a certain direction because he was so damned strong. Perry Ellis can't do that. He isn't physical enough to do what Robinson could do.

As a tall center with good timing but limited athleticism, Withey's best friend on the defensive end is an enormous power forward. Frankly, it didn't hurt having Taylor guarding the point, either. Taylor is so long and quick that he wasn't beat by the first step. If someone got around him, they didn't get free at the three point line. By the time they were past Taylor, Withey was there waiting, and they didn't have room to make a move. He swallowed them up, and he was really good at it.
Lol, well if that is your opinion, then you are entitled to it.

And I’m entitled to think you are a f**king moron.

Mr. Plow 11-16-2012 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz (Post 9123610)
so basically you're just full of shit.

you exaggerated my post, so you could exaggerate your post, so you could bitch like a child.

The reality is that the coach for our bigs just left and our bigs look a bit rough.

Is it just coincidence? Just the coaching staff settling in? Just this group of bigs are a little raw?

I dunno ... i made no conclusions, merely an observation.


But Hey, nothing brings out your bullshit parade like any post from me.

Yup, Manning left less than a year ago and our bigs have gone to shit. Throw in Self ruining all outside shooting for guards we are screwed.

Saul Good 11-16-2012 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedated (Post 9123657)
Lol, well if that is your opinion, then you are entitled to it.

And I’m entitled to think you are a f**king moron.
Good analysis. Would read again.

RealSNR 11-16-2012 03:26 PM
Wait, are people actually saying that Withey's success at the end of last year was because he's awesome?

He's not a terrible player, but if you want to know why he's kind of regressed a bit to open this season, it's pretty obvious. We knew losing Robinson was going to be a challenge for Withey, and that he had to make even greater strides than he did last year if he wanted to build off his success.

Thus far he hasn't done enough. It's fine. He's still a good player. He'll get better. That's what all Bill Self players do.

Saul Good 11-16-2012 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9123702)
Wait, are people actually saying that Withey's success at the end of last year was because he's awesome?

He's not a terrible player, but if you want to know why he's kind of regressed a bit to open this season, it's pretty obvious. We knew losing Robinson was going to be a challenge for Withey, and that he had to make even greater strides than he did last year if he wanted to build off his success.

Thus far he hasn't done enough. It's fine. He's still a good player. He'll get better. That's what all Bill Self players do.
Welcome to the ****ing moron club. /slides over to make room

sedated 11-16-2012 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9123702)
He's not a terrible player, but if you want to know why he's kind of regressed a bit to open this season, it's pretty obvious.
Dude…its been 3 F-ing games. The announcers don't even know everyone's names yet. Let them at least get used to playing competitive basketball again before we throw out "regressed".

And I think people are mixing offense with defense. Is Withey a trainwreck on offense? Yes. Is he one of the best shot-blockers in the country? Yes.

sedated 11-16-2012 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Too (Post 9123693)
Good analysis. Would read again.
When your opinion is “he was one of the best shot-blockers in the country not because he’s good at defense but because he played next to a guy who was widely regarded as a liability on defense”, there’s not much I can say except agree to disagree.

shitgoose 11-16-2012 03:57 PM
If Withey played for Missouri he would be spoken of like a Greek god. Mizzou fans would pay $15 and stand in line for hours to get slapped in the face with his dick.

Instead he plays at Kansas were expectations by KU fans are mostly unrealistic and rival fans relish the opportunity to criticize his NBA potential three games into a very long season.

RealSNR 11-16-2012 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedated (Post 9123758)
Dude…its been 3 F-ing games.

And I think people are mixing offense with defense. Is Withey a trainwreck on offense? Yes. Is he one of the best shot-blockers in the country? Yes.
He's not able to do the stuff he did last year in the tournament. He's still adjusting.

He's a good player. I'm glad to have him as our starting C. I hope he gets better. He needs to get better. And I think he will get better once he gets used to having Ellis and Traylor around instead of Robinson.

Saul Good 11-16-2012 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedated (Post 9123768)
When your opinion is “he was one of the best shot-blockers in the country not because he’s good at defense but because he played next to a guy who was widely regarded as a liability on defense”, there’s not much I can say except agree to disagree.
What part of "he is an outstanding off the ball defender" confuses you? He blocked a bunch of shots from the guy Robinson defended. He cleaned up a bunch of rebounds from the weak side.

Guys struggled to get past Taylor and found themselves too deep to challenge Withey.

I'm not saying he's not a good college player. He is. I'm saying that his NBA stock will never be higher than it was at the end of last season.

Fansy the Famous Bard 11-16-2012 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Too (Post 9123785)
I'm not saying he's not a good college player. He is. I'm saying that his NBA stock will never be higher than it was at the end of last season.
Actually, Saul is pretty spot on there. :eek:

Mr. Plow 11-16-2012 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shitgoose (Post 9123769)
If Withey played for Missouri he would be spoken of like a Greek god. Mizzou fans would pay $15 and stand in line for hours to get slapped in the face with his dick.
The hell they would. Have you seen the attendance for non-KU games in Columbia?

Bearcat 11-16-2012 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9123702)
Wait, are people actually saying that Withey's success at the end of last year was because he's awesome?

He's not a terrible player, but if you want to know why he's kind of regressed a bit to open this season, it's pretty obvious. We knew losing Robinson was going to be a challenge for Withey, and that he had to make even greater strides than he did last year if he wanted to build off his success.

Thus far he hasn't done enough. It's fine. He's still a good player. He'll get better. That's what all Bill Self players do.
Imagine if Barry's Koolaid or Autumn Wind said something intelligent and wanted to be a constructive part of the conversation. It doesn't matter if it was well thought out, completely logical, and would have been positive repped 1000 times had Rain Man posted the same thing. It would get torn down on a misspelled word or on the weakest part of the argument way before anyone agreed with it.

It's pretty much the same with Saul talking about the Jayhawks. I guess you can call it a downside to looking for an argument time and time again... after a while, you're pretty much guaranteed to get one.


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