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-   -   Chiefs info about Pendergast and his Cardinal scheme (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=204166)

aturnis 03-13-2009 11:39 PM

What I don't like about this is...

He was apparently running a 4-3/3-4 hybrid no? Like Mecca said, he had oodles of talent, and not the greatest results.

Wisenhunt is a Pittsburgh guy. That means something, and even though he was an offensive coach, I'm sure defense is a big deal to him. He had to have learned a lot in Pittsburgh. He should know how important defense is, and not just defense, but the 3-4 defense.

Well anyway, if Wisenhunt never trusted Pendergast to do the job, gave him a chance(forced to really), and still fired him. Well, lets just say it doesn't say a whole lot of good about our new D coordinator.

orange 03-14-2009 12:20 AM

Mr. Krab's,

LOL at your valiant but vain attempt to make the author appear literate. You'll have to do a lot more editing to get to that point.

"... the traditional 3-4 defense and the 4-3 'even' front, both of what he has tought and coached in the NFL."

CRIPEY. Is this guy actually paid to put words in print?

htismaqe 03-14-2009 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5581410)
It must just be me but Page and Pollard don't strike me as guys who would start on good teams.

Good teams generally have coaches who know how to utilize their players strengths, and with Pollard he's never been used that way. On a GOOD team, Pollard might actually start, and he might actually be GOOD. He was every bit the man at Purdue that Bob Sanders was at Iowa. He's not a cover 2 safety, but don't tell the idiots that were running the show that.

You want to talk about guys that don't belong, let's talk about Page.

htismaqe 03-14-2009 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 5581430)
This part is true, but also another thing is that I felt that Arizona had more talent than KC does on the defensive side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5581378)
I'd be a bit concerned here because Arizona has quite a bit of talent to work with, they atleast have a "core" that their team is built around.

You guys are WAY overestimating Arizona's "talent" on the defensive side of the ball. Their "core" consists of a 2nd-tier safety, a streaky DT, a 2nd-round LB, and a CB that they can't find a spot for because he's not good enough to play CB fulltime.

Sweet Daddy Hate 03-14-2009 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefRon (Post 5581405)
If we can build a pass rush, and "coach up" Morgan, Page, and Pollard...

Then maybe the ideal scenario would be to trade down (if at all possible) and still snag Brown, possibly find a late round gem LB or DE...

Maybe we would be ok.

Surely not as bad as last year.

You gotta' get Pollard out of coverage. He tries, but it's just not his thing. You put him in charge of shutting down the run up the middle and applying a little extra pressure on outside and interior blitzes, and he'll produce for you.

Sweet Daddy Hate 03-14-2009 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 5581701)
Good teams generally have coaches who know how to utilize their players strengths, and with Pollard he's never been used that way. On a GOOD team, Pollard might actually start, and he might actually be GOOD. He was every bit the man at Purdue that Bob Sanders was at Iowa. He's not a cover 2 safety, but don't tell the idiots that were running the show that.

You want to talk about guys that don't belong, let's talk about Page.

Bingo. In a rushing defense, the FS has to be your "miracle man" when the pressure and the sack don't bear fruit.

Page barely "flashed" at all in 2008, while Morgan stepped up and played a hell of a game against Denver at Arrowhead. I think Morgan could step again and really shine with the right scheme and coaching.

Why does Krumrie have a job? Seriously? Is his patented "Bitchy Slap Fight Drill" such an Awesome Tool Of The Gods, that he must be retained at all costs?

Meh.

the Talking Can 03-14-2009 06:20 AM

interesting, thanks....

tmax63 03-14-2009 07:32 AM

My question is how good/bad is the talent on D? I've read many times that it takes anywhere from 2-4 years to really know what you got from a rookie d-lineman. The chiefs have 2 guys going into year #3 under questionable coaching/scheme and a 2nd yr. guy. I'm thinking that although alot of folks on this board have given up on T-D-T already that they still have a chance to develop. I strongly agree that the Chiefs need a good pass rusher and better lb's and better quality depth as the injuries showed last year.

Coogs 03-14-2009 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Krab's (Post 5580964)
Other differences: The nose tackle shades to the A-gap (in between the center and the guard) on the tightend side, and the end on that side moves between the tackle and tightend.

OK! Can anybody here tell me weather or not either one of these two differences in the NT position... or the DE position would be a move in the positive direction from the straight 3-4 for Glen Dorsey... and Glen Dorsey only.

Most here seem to think he can not play the NT in a straight 3-4. Is this slight move over into the gap a play to his strength?

Or, if he is still more of a DE candidate in this scheme?

chiefzilla1501 03-14-2009 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmos (Post 5581440)
Among the many interesting things to keep track of is watching certain players fall off the roster because they either don't fit the new scheme, or they suck as players and won't be protected by the previous staff.

At the same time, their is going to be some players that will excel in the scheme, or will take to the new and "improved" coaching.

Page and Pollard are two players that I believe are going to benefit big time from this scheme. Cover 2's require safeties to cover a lot more ground than any other defense.

The Tampa 2 look demands a good pass rush. They have corners who jam receivers at the line to keep receivers from running in full sprint to the second level. If the receiver has enough time to recover and get back to full speed, there's nothing your defense can do.

In other words, when the pass rush disappears, the safeties in a Tampa 2 are always going to look bad. I think Page and Pollard are easily the two players who will benefit the most from a scheme change.

chiefzilla1501 03-14-2009 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coogs (Post 5581770)
OK! Can anybody here tell me weather or not either one of these two differences in the NT position... or the DE position would be a move in the positive direction from the straight 3-4 for Glen Dorsey... and Glen Dorsey only.

Most here seem to think he can not play the NT in a straight 3-4. Is this slight move over into the gap a play to his strength?

Or, if he is still more of a DE candidate in this scheme?

Coogs, don't listen to anyone who says Dorsey can be a 3-4 NT. They're out of their mind. Dorsey is not a space-eating guy whose job is to stand there and absorb blockers. And he'll never be strong enough to do it because he has some knee problems that will always keep him from gaining enough leg strength to be great at getting that leverage. His strength is going to be as a 1-gap tackle that darts through the line.

Unfortunately, that means that as a 3-4 DE, it's not a whole lot different. He'll be more of a guy who absorbs blockers and stuffs the run than he will be a pass rusher. And he might be too short for the role. No doubt his place is as a 4-3 DT. But much as I like Dorsey, you don't build an entire defense around him. He might be out of place, but that shouldn't stop the Chiefs from thinking about running a 3-4.

chiefzilla1501 03-14-2009 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmax63 (Post 5581722)
My question is how good/bad is the talent on D? I've read many times that it takes anywhere from 2-4 years to really know what you got from a rookie d-lineman. The chiefs have 2 guys going into year #3 under questionable coaching/scheme and a 2nd yr. guy. I'm thinking that although alot of folks on this board have given up on T-D-T already that they still have a chance to develop. I strongly agree that the Chiefs need a good pass rusher and better lb's and better quality depth as the injuries showed last year.

The key is that when you run a 4-3, you need great pass rushers off the edge and that has become one of the toughest things to find. Arguably the second-most difficult position to find outside of QB. And you need to find not one but TWO of them.

That's why a lot of teams run a 3-4. Much easier to find pass rushers. And arguably, that might be where this team could be the strongest. You don't need pass rushers on the line here. You need 3 DTs who can occupy blockers and keep linemen off the LBs, who can then fill in the gaps.

Coogs 03-14-2009 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5581773)
I think Page and Pollard are easily the two players who will benefit the most from a scheme change.

But wouldn't a 4-3 scheme that benifits Dorsey be because he can line up in a gap? In this system, he would still be in a gap. Maybe not the same one as his best 4-3 role would be, but in a gap none the less.

And for that matter, I know I asked about Dorsey only... mostly because he is a #5 overall pick, but would this slight shift over benifit Tyler more than a straight up on the Center setup as well?

Coogs 03-14-2009 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5581776)
Coogs, don't listen to anyone who says Dorsey can be a 3-4 NT. They're out of their mind. Dorsey is not a space-eating guy whose job is to stand there and absorb blockers. And he'll never be strong enough to do it because he has some knee problems that will always keep him from gaining enough leg strength to be great at getting that leverage. His strength is going to be as a 1-gap tackle that darts through the line.

But isn't that what this would be? A 1-gap tackle?

Hammock Parties 03-14-2009 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan (Post 5581709)
You put him in charge of shutting down the run up the middle and he'll...

SUCK ASS


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