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-   -   Misc I'm Adam Lanza's mother. Itís time for a meaningful conversation about mental illness (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=267737)

loochy 12-17-2012 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou_Zare (Post 9217558)
just keep telling yourself criminally insane folks will come out "rehabilitated" and that our system protected those kids last friday.

They shouldn't come out...that's my point. Either lock them up for good or keep living with the threat of stuff like this, at least until a systematic way of identifying and dealing with problem individuals can be developed. That's a tall order though.

Ace Gunner 12-17-2012 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale (Post 9217534)
Prisons are big business. Don't kid yourself... private investors get rich off of the intentionally inflated prison population. That's why we have more prisoners than any other country in the world.

I'm on your side of this. Our policies allowed those kids to be executed.

Ace Gunner 12-17-2012 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 9217572)
They shouldn't come out...

the problem with your ideas is that they do not attempt to solve the problem. how many repeat offender rapes etc do you need to read about before you come to realize this system isn't solving social ills.

There are those who will always be criminally insane & a dangerous threat to society. The point here is, proactivity. We could have saved those children from being mowed down.

mr. tegu 12-17-2012 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Diddy (Post 9217112)
I'm not focusing on that aspect. I'm focusing on what is in front of us. I have a child who has been diagnosed with Oppositional defiance disorder. At times it is rough but I keep moving forward looking for ways to motivate him. The resources that are available are largely nonexistent and if they are they are heavily priced with a less than stellar record. So what are the options available as traditional counseling may or may not be effective (either way delivering a heavy price tag)? I could attempt to medicate, but then there is the problem. What motivation does a company have to create a cure. The money is in the maintenance. (I'm not naive, I know some things can not be cured, however, I do believe an earnest attempt should be made to find one)

I am sorry to hear about the situation. Medication for such a behavioral disorder such as this is not the answer. I am glad to hear you are hesitant about it. However, if other illness is present such as anxiety or learning disabilities, medication shouldn't be completely ruled out.

One of the main issues and concerns with ODD is that it develops into conduct disorder or even worse, anti social personality disorder as they move to early adulthood, so it is important to address it as early as possible. There is no one perfect method of treatment and children respond differently to different methods, however some of the best options are family therapy, social skills training, and cognitive-behavioral therapy. CBT focuses on the behaviors and problem solving by allowing the child to explore their thought processes and speak freely. The short version is changing the behavior changes the cognitions. (This is actually a basic premise of reality therapy/choice theory which is a type of CBT).

loochy 12-17-2012 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou_Zare (Post 9217584)
the problem with your ideas is that they do not attempt to solve the problem. how many repeat offender rapes etc do you need to read about before you come to realize this system isn't solving social ills.

There are those who will always be criminally insane & a dangerous threat to society. The point here is, proactivity. We could have saved those children from being mowed down.

? What I'm proposing doesn't allow for repeat offenders.

Actually I'm not proposing anything. I'm saying that right now the only choices are lock em up forever or institute some kind of magical system that cures people. Lock em up forever - super costly, wasted lives, etc. Magical rehabilitation system - sounds all nice and rosy, but how the hell do you institute that? Do you just drug everyone that ever had an angry moment? Identification of who to treat will be hard enough, then actually being sure that the treatment worked is another story.

jspchief 12-17-2012 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou_Zare (Post 9217584)
the problem with your ideas is that they do not attempt to solve the problem. how many repeat offender rapes etc do you need to read about before you come to realize this system isn't solving social ills.

There are those who will always be criminally insane & a dangerous threat to society. The point here is, proactivity. We could have saved those children from being mowed down.

The problem is you fail at reading comprehension.

NewChief 12-17-2012 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 9217596)
? What I'm proposing doesn't allow for repeat offenders.

Actually I'm not proposing anything. I'm saying that right now the only choices are lock em up forever or institute some kind of magical system that cures people. Lock em up forever - super costly, wasted lives, etc. Magical rehabilitation system - sounds all nice and rosy, but how the hell do you institute that?

How do you prove that someone is a danger worthy of life behind bars or in an institution until they've committed a crime with a sentence of that duration? That's a pretty major violation of our constitutional rights, I'd think.

tooge 12-17-2012 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou_Zare (Post 9217584)
the problem with your ideas is that they do not attempt to solve the problem. how many repeat offender rapes etc do you need to read about before you come to realize this system isn't solving social ills.

There are those who will always be criminally insane & a dangerous threat to society. The point here is, proactivity. We could have saved those children from being mowed down.

Yes, by realizing this murderer was a bad apple several episodes and visits to the emergency room ago and locked his ass up for study, er, I mean his own good.

loochy 12-17-2012 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewChief (Post 9217600)
How do you prove that someone is a danger worthy of life behind bars or in an institution until they've committed a crime with a sentence of that duration? That's a pretty major violation of our constitutional rights, I'd think.

I have no clue! My point is that in order to fully prevent things like this is to lock them up forever. I know that isn't practical or realistic. We're going to have to live with the threat of this kind of thing until a working rehab system is in place (can it be done?) or until everyone suspected of anything is gone forever. My real feeling is that this kind of thing will just happen, no matter which way we attack it.

jspchief 12-17-2012 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewChief (Post 9217600)
How do you prove that someone is a danger worthy of life behind bars or in an institution until they've committed a crime with a sentence of that duration? That's a pretty major violation of our constitutional rights, I'd think.

You start by eliminating the concept of insanity/diminished mental capacity as a defense. Pull a knife on someone? Get charged like anyone else would. Threaten to kill someone, again, charged accordingly.

Stop dismissing the actions of these people because they are crazy. You want to use mental health in determining where they are incarcerated? Fine. Use it to dismiss their actions? No.

Ace Gunner 12-17-2012 09:24 AM

This is the hospital in my hood (growing up). It's a famous place because it was founded in 1736 and has been a leader in mental health over centuries. It has been rendered useless by today's legislative genius.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...d_building.jpg
The original Bellevue Psychiatric Hospital building, now
a men's homeless shelter.



Many of you are too young to understand what has happened in this arena. During the late seventies, funding was cut for mental health and treatment which resulted in tens of thousands of mentally ill folks to be pushed out of these facilities. Many were criminally insane, did crimes and were put into prison, only to be released onto the streets again. The cycle began and is intact today.

I am a proponent of removing the criminally insane from society. But, I am not a proponent of waiting until these folks kill somebody before taking action. Trained doctors need to be in charge of this, not cops. We need to study these folks and find the chemical makeup & preordained behavior patterns of these folks. With this info, we can determine a young person's disposition before they kills our kids.

As for whether some should remain in a mental health facility -- I agree there are some folks that cannot be cured. But prison is not the place, for several reasons -- one big reason is the lacking knowledge of those in charge, who, when pressed by budget cuts etc, will randomly release these type folks without batting an eye.

As for the cost of such programs -- could it be possible corporations would help fund? Ya. It's possible.

Ace Gunner 12-17-2012 09:36 AM

BTW- thx for sharing/starting this thread, BRC.

tooge 12-17-2012 09:45 AM

with the advances in DNA and gene research, it wont be too long before it will become routine to test for genetic anomalies that cause some of the more serious mental issues, just like they test for Down's syndrome now. Granted, that opens another can of worms, but that could possibly lead to gene therapy if, for example, it is found that your unborn child will have one of these disorders.

NewChief 12-17-2012 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooge (Post 9217655)
with the advances in DNA and gene research, it wont be too long before it will become routine to test for genetic anomalies that cause some of the more serious mental issues, just like they test for Down's syndrome now. Granted, that opens another can of worms, but that could possibly lead to gene therapy if, for example, it is found that your unborn child will have one of these disorders.

Minority Report....

Ace Gunner 12-17-2012 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooge (Post 9217655)
with the advances in DNA and gene research, it wont be too long before it will become routine to test for genetic anomalies that cause some of the more serious mental issues, just like they test for Down's syndrome now. Granted, that opens another can of worms, but that could possibly lead to gene therapy if, for example, it is found that your unborn child will have one of these disorders.

My point, as well. But, as a physician, you know political leadership & social trends took the opposing path long ago. We live in a society that sells only predetermined health solutions -- those with health conditions outside of such guidelines are ignored by our systems, both public & private.


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