Defense: Will We Still Be in the 3-4 in 2013?
 

Who will be the next DC?

Which players would be out of a job if we changed scheme?

Bump 'cause this is srsly, guis.

I don't want this to happen but if they go back to 4-3.

Move Tamba to DE then you could possibly draft Jarvis Jones (even though I want Geno) and you'd have 3 pass rushers.

Hali, Houston & Jones.

Does Houston work as LDE? He seems undersized.

Also: Jarvis Jones at #1 overall would ****ing destroy my self esteem. Might kill myself, actually.

Jarvis will go in teh top 5.

Hali and Houston will be fine as DE's in a 4-3 as long as we make sure have some beef at the DT's.

conveniently we have 'beef' leftover from the NT position in our 3-4

Am I missing something?

in a 4-3 you have Hali as DE.

OLBs are Houston & Jones.

Houston - Powe - Poe - Hali

That would be your defensive line.

Houston is 11 pounds lighter and 3 inches shorter than Jared Allen.

I don't think either of those guys projects as well at 4-3 OLB.

DJ is not a great 4-3 MLB, either.

Houston - Powe - Poe - Hali

????? - Siler - DJ

Flowers - Lewis - Berry - ?????



Not sure I like it.

Does it matter? Denver runs a 4-3, but it could be said they play more like a 3-4. One of the OLBs (Dumervil) just happens to start the play with his hand in the dirt.

If Heckert is the next GM, seems like he's more comfortable drafting for a 4-3. They transitioned from 3-4 to 4-3 when they took over for Mangini in Cleveland...

I would really hate to switch over, this unit as is, is the undeniable strength of the team, just a small handful of players from being complete.

Switching up, would erase all of that progress and take atleast a full year to get the new pieces in place, more likely two years, for each player to be the ideal fit.

I've also always believed the 3-4 to be a more versatile setup, the extra LB can play better coverage than a lineman or play more like a lineman when needed, and the oversized DE's plus huge NT'S make for a helluva short yardage package.

Having said that, if it takes a 4-3 to get Reid in here, i'll live, but it just seems like such a waste.

Completely agree.

The only thing that gives me hope is that Phat Andy likes an attacking defense.

Perhaps he hires an attacking 3-4 guy instead of our current "d lineman aren't supposed to rush the passer" defense...

It'll be real inteesting see what he does on that side, thats for sure.

I'll come on board pretty quick if he switches to the right 4-3 though, an uber aggressive, blitzkrieg 4-3 ala Jim Johnson... i could dig that i 'spose.

I think DJ would be the MLB

Lewis should be gone

Siler would be a backup

we will need to grab two 4-3 outside LB's

I thought Philly ran some kind of strange 4-3/3-4 hybrid for a while that was full of aggressive zone blitzes or something. Then they switched to that strange wide 9 shit.

The Denver model seems to make the most sense.

Houston is about the same weight as Dummerville, just a little taller. With two beefy bastards between Houston and Hali they'd be good to go.

Jackson and Bailey would definitely be out. Dorsey might be retained in this scenario.

If we did switch, I wouldn't be surprised to see Hali at LDE, and Houston roam around and play OLB similar to how Von Miller is currently playing it, where he blitzes like 70% of the time.

what about Dorsey in the 4-3 ?? Play the man at his natural spot.

I'm not against it as far as philosophy but it'd ****ing burn us as far as dumping/adding talent and ate cap...

Not really as much as you'd think.

You move Hali and Houston to DE. Houston has the 1st step to do it and Hali was an 8-9 sack a year guy there. Poe fits in at DT. DJ to SLB. LBs are easier to find than 1 gap DEs.

That'd be the one plus...

And there we get burned.

Hali was mauled until we went 3-4.

I think Dorsey/Poe/Powe could be a very solid rotation at DT.

I'd keep DJ at MLB...

wasn't Dorsey in a 4-3 when he first got here?

I seem to recall him sucking in a 4-3 but maybe it's just his first year. :shrug:


first year and 1 hurt year?

That, and $3it coaching...

In the Denver model, the LE (Wolfe) is 300 pounds. Hali doesn't fit that role. I think Hali would have Dumervil's role and Houston would be Von.

Reid doesn't care about defense. Don't bother him about defense. He's got ribs to eat and quarterbacks to get killed.

Dont tell me you're going to be one of the Reid holdouts...

Don't the Eagles play a crazy variety of formations on D?

Good point.

No, they are pretty much a wide-9 team that used to incorporate a lot of fire-zone concepts. If Andy would be open to a fire-zone based 3-4 ala Washington, Pittsburgh, GB, it would be great IMO.

Yup.

THAT I'd be all on board with...

I'd rather see us stay in the 3-4 but with a more aggressive approach. Trying to fit Hali and Houston into a 4-3 would be much harder than changing the mindset of Jackson and replacing Dorsey.

If we do go back to the 43 id like to see us bring in Lovie Smith. His defenses are always outstanding.

I'd be down with that, but just doubt he's going back to a DC.

Now that would be a good hire.

Eh, personally i could do without him.

That read & react stuff is played out, lets set the tone with aggression.

Eh i tend to love defenses which value turnovers and scoring off them..

You need so much more elite level play nowdays to run the tampa-2 effectively IMO.

Your corners have to be outstanding in run support, physical to re-route WRs at the LOS and smart in understanding your gaps in zone and where soft spots are, for example.

Where did it get them?

Chicago has elite players for the T2 in both corners, Briggs, Urlacher, and Peppers. Shea isn't chopped liver and Roach is serviceable. You also have to have rangy safeties as they're responsible for 2 halves of the field for most of your base calls.

Bears defense is soo much more than just tampa 2. Also we have one outstanding corner who excels in run support in Flowers.

The bears always manage to just plug in corners opposite tillman as their scheme is corner friendly. Theyve had a bunch of guys who have had good years playing in Lovies D

A superbowl and many winning seasons. Its the offense that was the reason they didnt go further.. Im not asking Lovie to be a head coach, only control the defense.

Yes but the primary coverage they use is the tampa 2. They mix it up and cloud but typically in base front, they're playing tampa 2.

Bit of an over simplification. They use a bunch of coverages including man.

Yup. I'm being a lazy bastard today, for obvious reasons. :)

Nobody can blame you. Im pretty giddy too :D

If we land Heckert + Dorsey I'm going to lose my mind.

Right now, it sounds like either/or not BOTH.

The base defense is Tampa 2.

We don't have the personnel in the front 7 to field it. Forget about the corners.

Let me live in my fantasy for right now. LMAO

****, its like the dream team of coaching staff and front office guys.

wake up!!!!!!!

you are having a wet dream

I could see us being a hybrid/multiple front defense. 2 downed linemen/3/4 with different coverage packages

we can't cover with 4 LBs .. but cant rush with 3 DL ... we screwed .....

I don't know. But a lot of the success of the Reid hire will depend on who they hire for defensive coordinator, and I really hope the way he shitcanned Castillo isn't going to come back to haunt him.

My big concern with Reid right now is that he doesn't have a defensive identity. That's actually an understatement. He has been completely clueless on what kind of defense he wants.

I'm also very, very worried that Heckert will move the team to a 4-3. I don't want to again fall into the trap where we have a front office that only knows how to run one scheme. Keep in mind that Heckert took a 2-gap 3-4 under Mangini and turned it into a 4-3. For that matter... keep in mind that Heckert hired Jauron, who is now a "free agent."

I hope there isn't croneyism, because it's possible our top 2 guys could be Todd Bowles or Dick Jauron. And neither of those options are exciting at all.

There's nothing more successful than an Andy Reid squad labeled The Dream Team!

LMAO lets just put that phrase to bed right now.

The past is gone, moving on.

How about the "good but humble because we understand anything can happen and we need a QB" team.

There was the same discussion on Jags board about switching to 3-4 instead of staying in 4-3. What do the Broncos and 49ers run?

Broncos play a 4-3 utilizing primarily an under front, iirc. 49ers are 3-4, can't recall what they line up in base front wise (odd, over, over-ed, etc)

It'll have a lot to do with our DC choice, but I think we are at least one decent good middle linebacker away from a successful 3-4 scheme. Say what you will about 1 gap, 2 gap, linemen... For the most part, if they are talented they can do the job with some coaching. But try running a 3-4 with only one decent middle linebacker and you'll be sorry. (see also: Chiefs).

This defense is built around a basic 3-4, with a few plug and play guys who are actually talented, I could see Andy Reid coming up with some crazy blitz happy 3-4 based scheme here in KC.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if he comes here, looks at our talent, and decides to mock up some 3-4 base cover 3 blitz schemes to incorporate Barry more actively in the blitz and to utilize him at his best, in my opinion, strength, which is ball hawking ability in run defense.

Thanks man! Now to figure out what that all means! :deevee:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aDpEVTJ-2S...odd+all+11.JPG

odd front from the Ravens. Unlike our odd front, their DEs align in the 4-tech straight over the tackle as opposed to us which our DEs align in the 5-tech.

http://blogimages.thescore.com/nfl/f...TOUNDER-11.jpg

Under front from the Ravens. Weak side DE is playing the 3 tech, with a shaded NT, and the other DE playing the 4-tech. The strongside DE typically has 2-gap responsibilities.

If we switch to the 4-3 (Wide 9 I'm assuming), we need a new NT or 3-tech depending on where our DC wants to play Poe and assuming Powe/Bailey aren't the answer, a new DE, and a new Will and Mike (DJ is an acceptable stop gap playing the Will or Mike IMO.

Putting DJ back at OLB in a 4-3 is going to kill his production.

4 tech straight over the tackle? Isn't that a 5 tech? When I played, 4 was inside shade, 5 straight up, 6 outside shade... for the tackle. Guard was 1,2,3 and Tight end was 7,8,9. Could have changed over the last 10 years though.

I'd be surprised if they went back to a 4-3 right away, if at all. I don't see Johnson being nearly as effective in that type of setup. Maybe they'd switch in a couple years after making some personnel changes.

We have to be careful. Reid has a 3-4 coach in Bowles develop a 4-3 philosophy. Heckert turned the Browns' 2-gap 3-4 into a 4-3.

The good news is, while I don't trust Reid whatsoever with our defensive scheme, Heckert was doing a good job in Cleveland. But I'd much, much rather have Reid stay out of the defensive scheme and instead focus on hiring a DC whose scheme fits the players. Right now, that scheme has to be a 3-4, and it should be a progressive 1-gap vs. the 2-gap we play today.

Johnson.

Or Hali. Or Houston. Or anybody else in the front 7.

We'd have to COMPLETELY gut the front 7 to run a 4-3 next year. No thanks.

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DJ was thoroughly inconsistent playing OLB in the 4-3. I'd almost be inclined to say leave him at Mike but in reality, he really doesn't have a great position in the 4-3.

Hali and Houston both played DE in college but both are now hovering around 270 and have become used to playing standing up. Hali showed flashes in the 4-3 but he really came on in the 3-4.

Poe could probably play the 3T but we don't know if any of the other guys we have would fit the 4-3 at all. I'm convinced Dorsey's legs are shot - it was a concern coming out of college.

All in all, we could probably cobble together a 4-3 defense. But in the end, I think we'd ultimately have to replace ALL SEVEN guys in the front 7 to play it WELL.

Move Hali back to LDE, get him to add some weight back. Houston moves to ROLB in the DT mold, with a run stuffing RDE inside him (who that is i'm not sure at this point). We've got Poe and Powe and Smith and all kinds of other big DT types to move inside, and quite likely some of them might function well in the RDE role w/ pass rushing as secondary. DJ as MLB or LOLB and use Siler or draftee at Mike.

We do need a CB and FS in the draft and/or FA, and additional pass rushers off the bench are a MUST!!

I think it could work well in a couple years.

What about this? Forget run stuffing RDE. League is about the pass anyways.

Lets just get as many pass rushers on the field as possible like the Giants do. Start Allen Bailey at RDE.

i'm good w/ that, just remembering the days of DT. we didn't really need much of a pass rush from that DE spot. they pretty much bull rush the inside to keep double teams off of DT, very much like a 3-4 end on that side of the ball. now if we can find the perfect guy who excels at both, obviously that's ideal, but those dudes are rare.