Originally Posted by milkman (Post 7279528)

Escape clause?

Enlighten me.

How does a team with nothing more than draft position to play for find itself in a critical situation?

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 7279521)

Got it.
Wanting better from our QB is NOT wanting the best.
Makes sense.


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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279517)

And therein lies the escape clause. Mind you, I'm not calling you out as one who's specifically moved the posts. I'm just noting the way the goalposts get moved.

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 7279544)

There was a thread several weeks ago. I think it was titled "I know everyone hates Cassel."
If that's the right thread, many bashers put forth the things they would need to see from Cassel to accept him as the answer.
All this talk of "moving goalposts," you'd think it'd be easy to pull up that thread and use specifics.

You see... This has become every bit as idiotic as a political argument.
Why?
Because it has turned into people constantly saying, "You believe _____," rather than listening to people say what they believe.
It's much easier to build statement than to actually deal with the real-life facts.


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Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 7279553)

That's when the goalposts really started moving. Go back to last year or the offseason or even the first 5 weeks of this season to see what people were saying about him before he started playing well.

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 7279564)

Since each "basher" has their own set of goalposts, and since you are confident in their movement, can you point to specific posters and their movement?
Can you tell me where to look specifically?
I'm confident of mine, but I'm sure you have some specifics in mind to turn me around on this "they root for a flat tire!" theory.


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Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6947772)

But let me give you a microcosm for why I think he's yet another worthless sack of shit in a long line of worthless sacks of shit that we've had at the QB position:

3rd and about 7. Time in the pocket. No heavy pressure. Cassel shits himself and literally runs into a sack instead of staying strong in the pocket.

This is the anti Trent Green. That sumbitch was impervious to danger in the pocket. Not surprisingly, who lit up Cassel for his stupidity?

All of this goes back to my claim that Cassel possesses modest talent (at best) and extremely limited football instincts. And you're not going to teach or develop the latter at the professional level.

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279539)

You think playing superior teams and coming from behind to win isn't going to lend itself to being looked at as having had critical situations just because one team is out of the playoff hunt. I know from playing in games like that at a moderately high level, as well as from talking with professional-level athletes, that your position is often not the mindset of the players involved.

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 7279564)

Since each "basher" has their own set of goalposts, and since you are confident in their movement, can you point to specific posters and their movement?
Can you tell me where to look specifically?
I'm confident of mine, but I'm sure you have some specifics in mind to turn me around on this "they root for a flat tire!" theory.


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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279610)

"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.


"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick


"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick


"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season


"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers


"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?


If you think the threads haven't gone in a that sort of vein, you haven't been around here much.

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 7279601)

So let me see if I understand this.

The pressure to win what is essentially a meaningless game is about equal to the pressure to win a playoff game, or one with huge playoff implications?

That about right?

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 7279590)

I don't save these things for posterity, but there are plenty immortalized in signatures across the board.

Here's one that I was able to find easily because I got a neg rep in the thread for defending Cassel's performance. (The neg wasn't from Deez, BTW.)



Cassel is now one of the least sacked QBs in the NFL, and it sure looks like he's developed these instincts at the professional level.

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279610)

"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.


"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick


"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick


"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season


"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers


"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?


If you think the threads haven't gone in a that sort of vein, you haven't been around here much.

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 7279630)

Those are great.
Now how have those posters moved their goalposts?


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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279610)

"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.


"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick


"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick


"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season


"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers


"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?

Originally Posted by Bearcat (Post 7279639)

Everything in this post that's outside of quote marks is at least not relevant and at most full reerun, and I really hope those aren't actual arguments from anyone, ever.

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279633)

:spock:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 7279590)

Here's one that I was able to find easily because I got a neg rep in the thread for defending Cassel's performance. (The neg wasn't from Deez, BTW.)
.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7279637)

Milkman and Sully deserve the Congressional Medal of Jesus for dealing with TRR, Saul and JPB in this thread.

This notion that there are people that want Cassel to fail is rooted in ignorance, and is nothing more than an attack on posters they don't like. Nothing more.

There's not a single poster here, with the exception of Mecca - who's gone MIA - that hasn't praised Cassel when he's done well.

Me, Deez, Hamas, Dane, etc. Every one of us have pointed to his improvement in the pocket. His improved decision making. His leadership. His toughness.

There's no doubt he's improved. None.

But for some of us, we'd like to see that improvement manifest itself against an elite opponent/in a critical situation before claiming he's an upper echelon QB. He's improved. Is he good enough to win a championship? Remains to be seen IMO. Playing well in a win against a team like Baltimore or Pittsburgh would at least show me that he's capable of doing so.

He's improved more than I thought he was capable of, so for that specifically, serve me some crow appetizer if you like.

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279643)

If you really think that, you're an idiot.

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279610)

"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279610)

"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick


"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick

.

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279610)

"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279610)

"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279610)

"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?
.

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 7279647)

I understand what it means.
Have the specific posters you quoted changed their stance since Cassel reached all their checkmarks?


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Originally Posted by Bearcat (Post 7279670)

Cassel won 11 games in NE.... that completely misses the point of the argument. I'm no basher, but the argument is they want Cassel to put a game on his shoulders. Quickly looking at his time in NE, I'd say you could make the argument that he did so 2-3 times, with a supporting cast that helped Brady to a ~120 QB rating the previous year.




Bledsoe? Are you ****ing kidding me? "That team" has nothing to do with Drew Bledsoe... what the hell?




Yeah, the Chiefs have 9 wins, but that's completely missing the point. Seeing "it" over the course of the season means consistency out of Cassel. Have we seen that all season? No. (I don't think this was an expectation coming into a season, it's simply saying "before I crown his ass, I'd like to see him play at a high level on a consistent basis").





The Rams? LMAO





Again, missing the point... it's not "but, he hasn't won in the playoffs," it's "before I crown his ass, let's see him win meaningful games," and what better game than a playoff game?

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279682)

I didn't say those were direct quotes. I noted that threads have gone that way and created an example. However, if you can't figure out some of the people I'm referring to, I don't know what to tell you.

It's not as if they're all in hiding. There's supposedly only one of those.

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279685)

The one missing the point is you. I noted that threads have gone like that. They have.

"If you think the threads haven't gone in a that sort of vein, you haven't been around here much.". I didn't make claims of that being verbatim. Quite the opposite, noting the "same vein".

As an aside, though, every single attempted rebuttal you made here is idiotic. It's as if you're trying to be a fool.

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 7279695)

So, if I understand corretly (and please correct me if I don't), every basher (even though each has his own set of "goalposts" for Cassel) has moved the goalposts.
However, you don't know which ones said what, and aren't sure where their goalposts began, or have moved to.

Got ya

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 7279461)

....I believe that the majority of the posters that I believe that TRR is referring to will come around when Cassel meets the requirements I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279501)

....I agree with this. Unfortunately, that handful made the board almost unbearable for much of last year, and the beginning of this season. The good news is that their voices are a lot less influential now.

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279517)

And therein lies the escape clause. Mind you, I'm not calling you out as one who's specifically moved the posts. I'm just noting the way the goalposts get moved.

Originally Posted by Bearcat (Post 7279733)

Uh-huh... I'll be sure to bring up the 2000 Patriots in future Cassel debates, as well as the critical Rams game and the other times he's taken the reigns and led them to victory, like against the Chargers and Browns. ROFLLMAO

Originally Posted by MadMax (Post 7279716)

Love him all ya want, I just say he sucks less...I don't dog him anymore cause it's pointless. He will be our QB for at least the next few years..

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279768)

Given that you were the one talking about how you'd suck your own cock if Cassel got the team to 8 wins, and you're now so gracious as to go with "he sucks less", thanks for demonstrating part of what I'm talking about with Sully. It's not fully on point regarding the moving goalposts, but it's close and I didn't have to go quote mining.

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279768)

Given that you were the one talking about how you'd suck your own cock if Cassel got the team to 8 wins, and you're now so gracious as to go with "he sucks less", thanks for demonstrating part of what I'm talking about with Sully. It's not fully on point regarding the moving goalposts, but it's close and I didn't have to go quote mining.

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 7279821)

That's exactly my point.
You're claiming one thing (moving goalposts), and showing evidence for another (being wrong in an evaluation).
This quote isn't even "close" to moving the goalposts, since you haven't shown what his goalposts actually are.
You can argue that his goalposts are silly or unrealistic, but until you show that he's gone back on his original goals for a QB, then you lose the "moving" argument.
And while it may seem an insignificant argument, IMO, it's the difference between calling someone a poor evaluator of talent, and calling them a liar.


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Originally Posted by MadMax (Post 7279839)

Get over your self son, I say stupid shit too.You are getting all worked up over nothing. Go suck Cassels cock if ya want it means shit to me.

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279868)

I'm not worked up at all, and I meant it when I said "thanks" to you, because your grudging and meager concession of "sucks less" fit fairly well with what I was posting about. Your post wasn't exactly what Sully was asking for, but it was close, so I didn't feel the need to look further.

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279855)

His "goalpost" was 8-8. Are you seeing him say he was wrong about Cassel beyond "sucks less"? As I noted "It's not fully on point regarding the moving goalposts, but it's close". "Sucks less" is not the same as "sucks just as much", but it's clearly not much of a concession. That's where "close" came into play.

However, my 5:11 pm post dealt directly with what you claim to be your point.

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 7279888)

Again, Tapatalk limits how I see quotes, and again, tell me if I'm wrong...
But it seems his goalposts for the team were 8-8. If he claimed he'd love Cassel if he was the QB on an 8 win team, then that's moving the goalposts. Otherwise, no, it's not "close."



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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279894)

Ummm.... Sucks/sucks less

Yes, it's close. And, again, I'd already addressed your argument in the earlier post. His post was just something close to somewhat illustrate the point.

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 7279590)

Here's one that I was able to find easily because I got a neg rep in the thread for defending Cassel's performance. (The neg wasn't from Deez, BTW.)

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279765)

Get back to me when you can understand the flow of a post. Until then, you're just a waste of time.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 7276322)

Nailed it

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7276380)

So, basically, you were just making shit up.

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 7279914)

If I'm trying to become a "rich" man, and the threshold for "rich" for me is $5 m, and I start with $100,000 then earn another $3 m, based on my goals, I am still not "rich."
I am "less poor," to be sure. And to many people, $3.1m is "rich."
However, I have, in no way (not even close) moved the goalposts.



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Originally Posted by jjchieffan (Post 7280778)

Then perhaps you have set the goalposts unrealistically high to start with. Will you be satisfied with Cassel becoming anything short of Peyton Manning or Joe Montana? As much as I would love to have a HOF QB here in KC, the reality is that those QB's are rare. We have a QB that is showing the potential to be a top 10 QB in the league for several years to come. Will he? who knows, but he has shown as much or more potential than drafturbator favorites such as Sanchez and Clausen.

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 7279765)

Get back to me when you can understand the flow of a post. Until then, you're just a waste of time.

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 7279888)

Again, Tapatalk limits how I see quotes, and again, tell me if I'm wrong...
But it seems his goalposts for the team were 8-8. If he claimed he'd love Cassel if he was the QB on an 8 win team, then that's moving the goalposts. Otherwise, no, it's not "close."

Originally Posted by Dave Lane (Post 7280909)

Are you being purposefully obtuse or is there a cognitive disconnect that is keeping you from understanding what hes talking about?

A lot of people, Madmax included, said this is a 4-6 win team at best. "I'll suck my own dick if we win 8 games".

The main issue is in August had you asked what do you want to see from MC to make you think he might be the answer at QB and they listed stats, games won etc, there's no way they would expect more than what he's done. Yet they refuse to look at MC and see any good. They refuse to give any credit because they are invested in being right. Dane and Milkman are logical thinkers. They were anti-Cassel and yet they see that he is possibly turning a corner and might be the answer. I feel the same way. Others have used pretexts to attempt to have a "logical reason" to continue to claim he sucks.

Bottom line if you are looking to find fault and place blame on MC he's an easy target but then so is every QB in the league Manning and Brady included.

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 7276149)

A few years ago people were perpetually bitching that we haven't drafted and developed a QB since Dawson. Well, we still haven't.

Originally Posted by J Diddy (Post 7280933)

Apparently those people were ill informed, because we neither drafted nor developed Dawson.

Originally Posted by Dave Lane (Post 7280909)

Are you being purposefully obtuse or is there a cognitive disconnect that is keeping you from understanding what hes talking about?

A lot of people, Madmax included, said this is a 4-6 win team at best. "I'll suck my own dick if we win 8 games".

The main issue is in August had you asked what do you want to see from MC to make you think he might be the answer at QB and they listed stats, games won etc, there's no way they would expect more than what he's done. Yet they refuse to look at MC and see any good. They refuse to give any credit because they are invested in being right. Dane and Milkman are logical thinkers. They were anti-Cassel and yet they see that he is possibly turning a corner and might be the answer. I feel the same way. Others have used pretexts to attempt to have a "logical reason" to continue to claim he sucks.

Bottom line if you are looking to find fault and place blame on MC he's an easy target but then so is every QB in the league Manning and Brady included.

Originally Posted by Sannyasi (Post 7281044)

EVERYONE thinks that Cassel has improved. If you can't find the posts saying that Cassel has been playing much better the last few games then i have to imagine its because you aren't looking.

Originally Posted by J Diddy (Post 7280933)

Apparently those people were ill informed, because we neither drafted nor developed Dawson.

Originally Posted by PGM (Post 7281076)

Hooray!!!! Another thread showing off the ignorance of B_Ambuehl :whackit:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane (Post 7280909)

Are you being purposefully obtuse or is there a cognitive disconnect that is keeping you from understanding what hes talking about?

A lot of people, Madmax included, said this is a 4-6 win team at best. "I'll suck my own dick if we win 8 games".

The main issue is in August had you asked what do you want to see from MC to make you think he might be the answer at QB and they listed stats, games won etc, there's no way they would expect more than what he's done. Yet they refuse to look at MC and see any good. They refuse to give any credit because they are invested in being right. Dane and Milkman are logical thinkers. They were anti-Cassel and yet they see that he is possibly turning a corner and might be the answer. I feel the same way. Others have used pretexts to attempt to have a "logical reason" to continue to claim he sucks.

Bottom line if you are looking to find fault and place blame on MC he's an easy target but then so is every QB in the league Manning and Brady included.

Originally Posted by MadMax (Post 7282290)

Dave I don't believe I ever said he hasn't improved. Yes I made a foolish prediction, and I have no hate for Cassel. He is just not the QB I had hope for. I hope he gets better and wish nothing but the best for the Chiefs.

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 7275907)

Against Seattle and Arizona?

From reading this board it sounds like Cassell just won the MVP trophy, but when I look at his stats for the last 2 football games this is what I find:

Denver: 17-31 196 1-0
St Louis: 15-29 184 1-1

That's barely 50% completion percentage against 2 shitty football teams WITH an outstanding running game behind him.

When I look at his record I don't think he's won a football game when he didn't get at least 140 rushing yards to support him.

The fact is Seattle and Arizona can make anybody look good. Hell, Alex Smith went for ~300 yds and 3 TDs last week vs Seattle.

At some point Casshole's gonna have to prove he can win a football game by himself without much of a running game against a good defense playing coverage. Opposing teams routinely sell out on the run when they face us. When you're only completing ~50% of your passes vs the kind of coverage he's been getting I think there are legitimate questions whether he's capable of doing that.

"But casshole is so tough and he's become a leader blah blah blah". ****ing trent dilfer was tough and a leader too. Doesn't make him a good QB. Hell, Tim Tebow's tough and a leader. Doesn't make him an NFL player.

Flame away.

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 7281270)

The point is he was already with the franchise when it moved to KC. We've never drafted and developed anyone worth a shit in KC since. Remember the year Croyle was supposed to start and all the talk of how great it is that KC is finally playing and developing a true drafted QB? Then Pioli breaks out the Carl method of team building and pulls the same bullshit with Cassel Carl did for years and years and years and everybody seems to forget, we still haven't drafted and developed a QB. Most likely the situation will end the same way. Carl era QBs were decent but not great and eventually became limiting. None of them looked as bad as Cassell did thru his first ~1.5 yrs starting here, and none of them had as much help in the running game as he's had this year. Even his biggest supporters agree the Casshole isn't a "true franchise QB" which you generally have to draft and develop.

Can you win with him? Yeah, but you could also win with Carl era Qbs.

So basically there's a big disconnect here: Everybody wanted to run Carl out of town for being content with non franchise QBs but now everybody wants to suck Pioli and Cassels dick for doing the same ****ing thing (at a lower level IMO).

Originally Posted by Iconic (Post 7282426)

All you want is for us to ****ing develop a QB. That's it. You're so obsessed with that idea that your blinded by the fact that not all HOF QB's where drafted and 'developed' as you call it. There's lots of QB's who weren't top 10 draft picks who turned out GREAT in the NFL. Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, Drew Brees.... The list goes on and on. Cassel is only getting better and better and either you get behind him or **** off. Simple.

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 7281270)

The point is he was already with the franchise when it moved to KC. We've never drafted and developed anyone worth a shit in KC since. Remember the year Croyle was supposed to start and all the talk of how great it is that KC is finally playing and developing a true drafted QB? Then Pioli breaks out the Carl method of team building and pulls the same bullshit with Cassel Carl did for years and years and years and everybody seems to forget, we still haven't drafted and developed a QB. Most likely the situation will end the same way. Carl era QBs were decent but not great and eventually became limiting. None of them looked as bad as Cassell did thru his first ~1.5 yrs starting here, and none of them had as much help in the running game as he's had this year. Even his biggest supporters agree the Casshole isn't a "true franchise QB" which you generally have to draft and develop.

Can you win with him? Yeah, but you could also win with Carl era Qbs.

So basically there's a big disconnect here: Everybody wanted to run Carl out of town for being content with non franchise QBs but now everybody wants to suck Pioli and Cassels dick for doing the same ****ing thing (at a lower level IMO).

Originally Posted by Iconic (Post 7282426)

All you want is for us to ****ing develop a QB. That's it. You're so obsessed with that idea that your blinded by the fact that not all HOF QB's where drafted and 'developed' as you call it. There's lots of QB's who weren't top 10 draft picks who turned out GREAT in the NFL. Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, Drew Brees.... The list goes on and on. Cassel is only getting better and better and either you get behind him or **** off. Simple.

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 7340930)

LOL

Casshole vs the 'Fade: 11-33 115 yds 0 TD 2 INT
Casshole vs the Ravens: 9-18 70 yds 0 TD 3 INT

He's still failed to do anything when the football team didn't dominate on the ground and in addition to his piss poor stats there are a multitude of other times he's held onto the ball for eternity, taken bad sacks, and been called for bad intentional grounding penalties.

We're now in the worst case scenario. No doubt he's not the answer but there's also little doubt he'll be around another year.

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 7341016)

Well, there were a few of us here who'd seen this movie before and knew how it ended.

I've said from the beginning of the year I'd rather do what's necessary to get a legitimate long term answer at QB than be stuck with a fraud for the next 2 years.

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7279499)

There's a lot of gray area, even for those like myself who admitted to hating the acquisition and his play for the majority of his time in KC. I'm sorry, when you post a QB rating of 14.6, and then claim you graded out "perfectly," I won't say positive things.

But even during this period, if he performed well, made a good throw, etc., I said so (usually in game threads).

So, back to the initial question. Again, this is too simplistic. Did I react rashly to the initial acquisition? Perhaps. Did I react rashly to his on-field play? I think a strong argument can be made for "no."

What might be my biggest mistake is that I claimed that "presence" and "football instincts" cannot be learned at the highest level. If Cassel continues his current trajectory, he will definitely prove me wrong.

Originally Posted by ROR (Post 7282390)

He's the guy, there's no getting around it, the team plays better with him, so my MO is as follows:

Build Uber-Team to support him, take it as far as it can go, and pray, yes PRAY LIKE YOU'VE NEVER PRAYED BEFORE, that guy who comes after him is FINALLY high-round, franchise material.

Yep; think long-term.

Over/Out!:D

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 7341048)

I'm not saying you're right dumbass.

I'm saying you think you're right, and that makes you happy.

Good for you.

You're happy because you believe you're right that the QB we have is not the right guy.

Nothing better than being (in your mind) right and having to wait even longer to take the next step as a team, huh?

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 7342722)

Funny. If that were true it would make me no different than Pioli. He would rather be right than have a decent QB, and this offseason should leave no doubt about that.

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 7345031)

No, it would only leave no doubt for you, and others that believe the same as you.

I absolutely believe he's moving forward with Cassel because, like me, he saw real progress and believes he can continue to grow.,

Originally Posted by brett (Post 7947107)

id still give cassole a chance to prove himself

Originally Posted by PGM (Post 7947083)

Based off of your track record, this is like a monkey throwing feces against a wall and making "art".