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-   -   Int'l Issues November 29: The UN will vote to recognize Palestine as a "state." (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=266607)

ROYC75 11-16-2012 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea (Post 9122892)
Not if the UN has its way.

Sure, imposing their will on the people of the world

patteeu 11-16-2012 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOCOChief (Post 9122884)
Iím not anti Semitic and certainly not pro Palestinian (no dog in the hunt) but if I had a foreign occupant force in my backyard Iíd be taking shots at them. If I understood what rights the Jewish people feel they have to this land I might think differently. I havenít found the answer to this so maybe someone can enlighten me.

They're not in their backyard. Israel withdrew completely from Gaza. You can't possibly consider the entire territory of Israel to be the palestinians' backyard do you? Do you consider the state of Missouri to be unlawfully occupied American Indian territory?

LOCOChief 11-16-2012 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9122880)
I don't know whether the creation of Israel was a mistake or not. But like with the American Indian and US territory, it's ancient history now and Israel is a fact of life. 60+ year old grievances don't justify the terrorism and rocket attacks that palestinians continue to launch against Israel. Israelis would like nothing better than to live in peace next to their Arab neighbors. And if those Arab neighbors are unwilling to give the palestinian population a home, Israel has shown that they are willing to live peacefully next to a palestinian state. Unfortunately, there are a lot of palestinians who don't have peace on their minds.

That is a good analogy and how I view it. And I completely agree that nothing justifies the attacks on people of Israel, but I would probably feel differently if my great grandparentís farm was taken by a foreign invader. I don't think that the fact that it was water under the bridge would curb my animosity.

BucEyedPea 11-16-2012 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROYC75 (Post 9122903)
Sure, imposing their will on the people of the world

Only if the people of the world agree with it.

LOCOChief 11-16-2012 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9122913)
They're not in their backyard. Israel withdrew completely from Gaza. You can't possibly consider the entire territory of Israel to be the palestinians' backyard do you? Do you consider the state of Missouri to be unlawfully occupied American Indian territory?

I think I do to some extent. Trail of tears.

ROYC75 11-16-2012 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea (Post 9122922)
Only if the people of the world agree with it.

And when the people of the world wants to screw with us, how do you feel about this ?

BucEyedPea 11-16-2012 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROYC75 (Post 9122947)
And when the people of thew world wants to screw with us, how do you feel about this ?

What does that have to do with "us" when it comes to Palestine being seen as a state?

It has nothing to do with us.

LOCOChief 11-16-2012 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea (Post 9122885)
Read The Thousand Year War. It's written more for a young high-schooler but it still has great information and is not a tome. It will fill in information you've never heard. You can get it cheap used too.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Thousand-Y.../dp/0942617320

Also can read about Lawrence of Arabia. If you don't have much time, there's a decent summary on the PBS site. Section on Emerging Middle East is decent.

http://www.pbs.org/lawrenceofarabia/

You can use that in conjunction with watching the old movie which just makes events real. It at least shows the betrayal by the British to the Arabs which T.E. Lawrence witnessed because he worked for British intel and fought with the Arabs. It's actually a great flick.

Then watch the movie "Exodus" to see it from the Jewish side, which shows how they were friends with Arabs and how the UN partition divides them.

Remember the UN was spawned by the US originally. It replaced progressive Wilson's League of Nations.

I will and thank you. And I drew the same conclusion from the UN partition.

ROYC75 11-16-2012 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea (Post 9122953)
What does that have to do with "us" when it comes to Palestine being seen as a state?

It has nothing to do with us.

If the UN can take the outcry of some people of the world to force their will upon a country, what will the UN do when a large outcry of the world voices their opinion over the US ?

Different circumstances but the same policy .... imposing their will over a country because of public outcry.

BucEyedPea 11-16-2012 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROYC75 (Post 9122977)
If the UN can take the outcry of some people of the world to force their will upon a country, what will the UN do when a large outcry of the world voices their opinion over the US ?

Different circumstances but the same policy .... imposing their will over a country because of public outcry.

Yes, but don't forgot that's what we're doing for one side of that conflict too. This was done for Israel via the UN earlier as well. If it shouldn't be done then it shouldn't be done for either side.

I am all for the two sides duking it out and settling the issue on it's own with no interference instead. But it was the US progressives that spawned the same UN.

Plus, the UN is aiding and facilitating the same thing on Iran with sanctions. I take it you agree with that one?

ROYC75 11-16-2012 10:26 AM

Iran is clearly in violation of IAEA

BucEyedPea 11-16-2012 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROYC75 (Post 9123060)
Iran is clearly in violation of IAEA

Well, that has nothing to do with what I recognizing Palestine as a state or whether or not we should all be under the global governance of the UN.

For one thing, the IAEA, although independent, reports to the UN General Assembly and Security Council.
I thought you were against the UN enforcing it's mandates for us? Or is this just for other countries and not us? I say you can't have it both ways. You're either for global governance for all or not at all.

However, there is NO real evidence of Iran being in violation of the IAEA. That's disinformation that has been reprinted in the neo conservative and conservative media because they want to start another war for regime change. Israeli intelligence, Mossad, is in broad agreement with the 2007 NIE, authored by the heads of all US intelligence agencies, that the Iranian regime suspended all efforts to build a nuclear bomb in 2003.

But I don't want to turn this thread topic into a major hijack and then bring Big Dick in to waste my time rehashing the same arguments and documents all over again via his rhetorical questions.

patteeu 11-16-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOCOChief (Post 9122914)
That is a good analogy and how I view it. And I completely agree that nothing justifies the attacks on people of Israel, but I would probably feel differently if my great grandparentís farm was taken by a foreign invader. I don't think that the fact that it was water under the bridge would curb my animosity.

What foreign invaders? Jews were already there before Israel was created. In fact, they were terrorists fighting for a state before it was cool to be a terrorist fighting for a state. Certainly many others emigrated after Israel was created, but they weren't foreign invaders.

When Britain's mandate ended and the UN partitioned the area, two states were created; a Jewish one (which had both Arabs and indigenous Jews in it) and an Arab one (which was almost exclusively Arab). The Arabs didn't like it so they went to war and later were joined by the neighboring Arab states. Even then, the Arabs wanted it all. Israel ended up winning that war, but as a part of the war, many of the Arabs that were in Israel fled (or, I'm sure in some cases, were forced out) and became refugees. This is what they're talking about when the palestinians demand a "right of return". They want to be able to return to Israel and reclaim land that they or their forefathers left 60+ years ago. This will never happen.

But to make a long story short, not only were there not foreign invaders, but it was the Arabs who tried to destroy Israel when they lost their previously held land, not the other way around.

patteeu 11-16-2012 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOCOChief (Post 9122931)
I think I do to some extent. Trail of tears.

OK, well we'll have to agree to disagree then.

Are you ready to give up whatever property you hold an illegitimate white man's title on to it's rightful owner?

KILLER_CLOWN 11-16-2012 11:00 AM

I laugh at these people that think you're anti semitic for not blindly following Israels mandate. Both sides are Shem ites. ;)


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