:p :thumb:

If we fill the two line spots with premier guys (won't happen, but Winston and Myers or the guy from gb) I think Orton could win some big games with the talent we have on board.

Our secondary will be vastly improved. We lose a little going from Carr to Routt, but the upgrade from Sabby to Berry is massive. Our run defense should also improve as our young front seven grows into their roles more and more.

The front seven played as well as anyone down the stretch.

This defense is setting up to be a top 7 unit.

Orton does a good job of distributing the ball around and thats what we need because we have talent everywhere we look. He was effective last year WITH NO RUNNING GAME and a swinging door at right tackle.

I'd like to see him get a chance with a full blown running game that we would have with Charles and Tolbert or Hillis...or Richardson. He displayed a very convincing playaction last year again, WITH NO RUNNING GAME.

That play action would be highly effective if Charles or Tolbert are in the backfield instead of Jones or Battle.

I have no doubt that we could win a playoff game or even two, but I don't think he is a guy that can win shootouts for us or put the team on his back when we need it and carry us when we face elite run defenses in the playoffs.

Having a line that good would have to factor into our chances in those games with him...he could have "all day back there".

Long story short, sign me up for the group that wants "anything but Cassel" for 2012.

We can deal with next year when we get there, but for now I just want to enjoy Chiefs football without #7 embarrassing it.

Orton? Ok
Stanzi? Let's go
Move a 6th for Moore from Miami? No problem

One more snap from Matt Cassel?

**** that.

Can we, as a planet, follow my lead on this, just once and referr to incumbant starter as #7 instead of actually saying his name? He does not deserve to be named, only numbered....Thank you.

Forget about Orton. If he is in Dallas then he's signing there; so is Carr.

Well.in #7's defense here. He didn't get cut in favor of Tebow. I can't believe I.just defended #7.

We as a fan base have fallen so far.

Nice!

I just don't get the fascination with Orton. 1 TD, 2 picks, 3 games-That's shit awful.

#7?

Shitbag sounds better

Why couldnt we do the same thing with a franchise qb? Why does it always have to.be a retread?

Because he isn't a franchise qb. Its easier emotionally to go 8-8 and get bounced than it is to be a contender year in and out.

He was with the team for a matter of weeks, and the offense was better than it was with Cassel. That simple.

Red zone offense was awful.

Play selection was worse.

When was the last time Cassel had consecutive 300 yrd games?

The only fascination is him replacing Shitbag.

Listen up folks. The professional player evaluator has shown up.

Weak trolling, Reerun. I'll not take the bait.

Holy shit.

How the **** did I miss this?

I just went to #7s rotoworld player page and the first story says this:

Speaking at the Scouting Combine Saturday, coach Romeo Crennel said Matt Cassel is the Chiefs' starter "until we get another quarterback on the team."


I saw it in somebodies sig, but thought it was a joke or something.

You have to use the eye test. No way Cassel is even with Orton. Orton isn't taking you to a SB, but I would much rather have him IF you are forcing me to select a stop-gap.

He can move the chains, but he still is pedestrian at best. Without looking, who would you rather have based on stats?

9 TDs and 9 INTs or 10 TDs and 9 INT's?

That's both players TDs and INTs from last year.

I am not sure there is a fascitnation with Orton. The vibe I get is that given the front office lack of moves to land a franchise QB, that given the choice between #7 and Orton, most here would choose Orton. Throw a draft pick QB in the mix, that all would prolly change....

Orton turns the ball over and can't finish drives. If he gets a shot at starting your team is not a contender in my opinion

I don't care about statistics.

Orton can throw the ball down the field, Cassel can't.

Neither is the Franchise QB we want but there is no question, Orton>#7.

I'll say it agin.

This TEAM is ready to go right now. The current team deserves a better qb than 7.

Let's say we wait till next year to draft a qb.

That means that we probably have 3, maybe 4 more years till we would be ready to really compete with a QBOTF we would draft next year.

By then, guys like Hali, Bowe and DJ are past their window.

Really, if we don't at least sign Orton, I consider that sabotage.

You don't care about TDs?:rolleyes:


Who cares if he can throw it deep, if he's throwing it to the other team?

Orton's career numbers 80 TDs 57 INTs QB rating 79.4
Cassel's career numbers 76 TDs 45 INTs QB rating 82.5

Orton has been turned into a Golden God, when he's no better than Cassel and the numbers prove that.

It's like jumping from the frying pan into the fire and buys three more years of mediocrity. No thanks.

No, he's better than Cassel. Your eyes should tell you that. Instead, you want to look at stats from an entire career, which isn't relevant in the least.

See I don't agree it buys 3 more years. I think Henne might do that, but not Orton. I think even KC would see Orton as a stop-gap. If Cassel starts and does well he will certainly be here another year.

If we start Orton this year I think its safe we would have Stanzi/Other drafted QB the next. You keep Cassel, well I don't want to even think about what that could end up being time-wise.

Isn't relevant in the least is an extreme statement. Its not needed to make the point. The eye test isn't even close. Orton gives this team a better chance. That being said, he isn't winning us a SB, and nobody is claiming he could.

Are you really arguing that we should hitch our wagon to a mediocre QB for three more years?

Sorry, brother, but Orton is an average QB, hence the BACK-UP job he's looking for.

Better than shit, doesn't mean much and just delays what we all know we need... a franchise QB.

All I'm arguing is he should start this year.

But our FO is too inept to even get him to sign.

I just see Orton as hampering the team long-term. I don't think he's enough of an upgrade to hitch our wagon to. I'd rather see Cassel meet certain doom and make it crystal clear, we need a rookie franchise QB.

Nobody, nobody wants to hitch the Chiefs wagon to Orton for more than this year.

You really think he's going to sign a one year deal?

IDK. If he wants more KC would have to make sure its a number they could live with when he is backing up year 2. If I saw they signed him to a multiple year deal it would freak me out, but I think they could work out a 1 year deal. I doubt he is going to get a multiple year deal from a team that would give him a fair chance to win the starting job.

I just cupped my balls.

Ain't gonna happen.

Orton, if he signs, will be the starter for 2 to 3 years at least.

This idea that we can draft Tannehill, sign Orton for 1 year, and then ride off into the sunset is PURE FANTASY.

Yeah, because nearly a decade into his career he's suddenly going to do something he's NEVER DONE BEFORE.

:clap:

This also says a lot to me that he'd rather go to Dallas to backup someone rather than compete with Cassel for the job here.

It's happened before....

To who?

yep
it will be impossible to stretch the defense with Castle at QB.
we're done for 2012.

Rich Gannon rings a bell, kurt warner,

Trent Green's career numbers are 162 TD's 114 INT's (amazingly close to just double Orton's) QB rating 86


And for my money, it is quite clear Green was far superior to Cassel as well. Even though the "stats" would not suggest that.

Cassel is the type of guy you cannot judge just by looking at the numbers.

Sure you can but you won't get an accurate picture of what the guy is. His stats are inflated primarily because he cleaned up on a 16-0 quality team the year after.

Just like how many of us don't want Matt Flynn. It's easy to look good on a SB quality team.

Still, I'll give him that. But you cannot tell me his "probowl" season here in KC was not the most deceiving, stat inflated season ever. Purely put on by Pioli to make Matt look good. How many play action TDs from the 1 or 2 did he get that year? Several.

No Matt is a guy you need to give the ole eyeball test to when he plays. He doesn't have it.

What good does stretching the field do when you can't score?

Yards don't win football games.

Tim Tebow 17 TD's 9 INT's (he is actually ahead of the pace) QB rating 75.1

Damn, they are all one and the same. Green, Orton, Cassel, and Tebow

:LOL: :clap:

I could make several points about Gannon but I'm interested in arguing semantics - I'll give you that one.

Kurt Warner was in the Arena League when he went to St. Louis. He had ZERO NFL experience. There is no analog between him and Orton. NONE.

So you found ONE example out of the dozens of NFL QBs in the last 10 or so years. You REALLY want to pin your hopes on that?

Damn him for throwing TD passes!!!! If it was so easy, why couldn't Orton do it?

A career QBR of 86 is SIGNIFICANTLY superior to Orton's 79.4. SIGNIFICANTLY.

You guys are really grasping at straws here.

Did they not televise the Packers/Chiefs game in Iowa htismaqe? Raiders game too? OK, yeah we didn't score that many against the Raiders, but that isn't "ALL" on Orton. Some of that goes on Bowe. Some of that goes on OC. Some of that goes on ST's. Denver... hell, we didn't need to score. Had a TD lead and crappy field position.

Because he didn't have a starting RB for one.

All of the excuses for Orton are the SAME excuses that were used for Cassel.

I'm just amazed nobody can see what is going on here - people are greasing the skids for FOUR years of Orton, not 1.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

Sounds like CASSEL.

Orton's career isn't over.

OK, I give!

Well, it does look like we are planning on running the shit out of the ball next season. So Casshole will have another 2010 season which means he will be here 2013 and beyond.

He could. If management had it in their mind "lets pump up this guys stats. Oh we're on the 1? Pass"

Any QB would do the same. Are you stating they were not trying to inflate his TD/Int ratio that season??

My point is that it is possible, not probable. However, I can tell you what I see in Orton that I don't see in Cassel. His arm. Orton can make the throws and although his decision making isn't the best, it's also heads and tails over Matty. Then Matt holds the ball way to long and then shot putts a gay floater over the middle or takes a ridiculous sack. Orton at least has some pocket presence.

I'm not saying that Orton is the answer unless the question is Matt or Kyle?

Orton would have to post a continuous QBR of near 100 for the rest of his career to get it up to 86.

Yes I am. KC has been horrible running the ball in short yardage situations even with Charles 2 years ago.

Does Brady get criticized for inflating his stats by passing to Gronk and Hernandez in the redzone?

Same could be said of Orton.

Would you rather poke your eyes out with a fork or a rusty fork?

Look, I want rid of Cassel as much, if not more, as anybody here. But Kyle ****ing Orton isn't the answer. He's just a continuation of the problem.

You would be better served to say it's "not impossible".

Me getting hit by a bus today is "possible". But given that I'm sitting in my home office, two and a half miles from anything resembling a town or city and the closest bus route is 10 miles away, it isn't bloody likely.

And if the question really becomes "Matt or Kyle" the answer should be "Arrowhead will be empty until these mother****ers are gone!"

Orton had me excited, just seeing a KC qb make some basic throws & move the offense like a professional.

But yeah, in the end he's not taking this team to its ultimate goal... no more second tier guys... either get a proven stud or start over with youth.

Orton can move the chains, Cassel can't.

Orton sucks less.
Posted via Mobile Device

If Pioli hasn't seen what a shit stain Cassel is at QB after having spent the last 7 seasons with him I doubt he does after this season.

If Orton is so good at moving the ball why did KC's point production drop in half every time he played?

i agree.
the thought of Cassel starting makes me wanna puke.

I wonder if Pioli and Clark are stopping to think about the boo-birds that will have flocked to the Arrowhead opener if Cassel starts.

I can't imagine it being very pretty for Cassel if he plays like years past.

Someone sign this crap so we can move on with our team...

All I know is this. If we are in the playoffs, down 4, with 2:00 on the clock, against Ravens or Steelers defense on the road (or home for that matter), and my choice is Orton or Cassel... I'm taking Orton every damn time. Would Orton get it done? Don't know. Would Cassel get it done? :shake:

ROFL

This is why the franchise hasnt won a playoff game in 20 years...

QB's like Orton cant get it done... Cassel isnt even a thought...

Hate to break it to you, but career wise they have similar 4th quarter comeback and game winning drive numbers.

If that is your scenario, you better be prepared. Cassel would go 3 and out. Orton would throw a pick.

Neither of them would win.

And lastly, if you have Orton as your QB, you wont be in that position to begin with...

Its a pipe dream fantasy...

I agree with the 3 and out. Pick? Maybe. Maybe not. And we may not win.

But given our options of Orton or Cassel. I'll go with Orton. And unless Stanzi can unseat either one, that appears to be our only options right now.

Both cassel and orton are utter wank. Orton would be well advised to seek a backup role. The chiefs are screwed until they get a QB that at the very least grades into the top 16 in the league.

That's about it, I think.

maybe so.

after three years i still haven't figured out how Pioli came up with the idea that Cassel could be a starter.

You guys have your minds made up, and that is fine. I just know I watched a guy who was on his 4th or 5th OC in 3 years (just like Cassel's main excuse), a guy who didn't really even know his teammates, a guy without his best RB and TE, rally his team to victory over the Packers after they had taken the lead in the 3rd quarter. You know those Packers. The ones who were undefeated at the time. And he threw for 300 yards while doing that.

I'm not saying he is Joe Montana. I'm just saying given the choice of Orton or Cassel to watch in 2012, I'm taking Orton.

For every Packers game, there is a Raiders game. Orton would be good depth, but that's about it.

Other than the fact that it appears Orton would rather be a backup in Dallas than have anything to do with the KC Chiefs...