Yeah, well there is that.

I'm off the Cassel wagon.

Come on Stanzi!

He still threw for 299. Bowe drops at TD. Chemistry issue? Still relatively new to each other. Succop has 2 blocked. I'm still good with Orton in that game.

:thumb: Common sense of the 'eyes' sometimes allude many here on the board. I would have really loved to see what Orton could have done with the Triple B threat given mini-camps and a full TC.

Many here have forgotten what Orton did to our D in Denver 2yrs ago with just a mediocre Brandon Lloyd:roll eyes: Mofo was a surgeon.

BINGO !!

I think you're really underrating Orton. I agree he's not a franchise QB. But given our options, he's probably the best we can do. I'm just as comfortable with him as I would be with Flacco or Sanchez or even Alex Smith (though, Flacco and Sanchez arguably still have room to improve).

We could do a whole lot worse. I could see the Chiefs make a 49er-like surge.

No, my eyes are fine.

He's DIFFERENT than Cassel but "different" is not "better".

And yes, let's not forget what he did to our defense 2 years ago.

He threw for over 400 yards and the Broncos LOST. By nearly 3 touchdowns.

JFC. :facepalm:

Those excuses aren't valid for Cassel but they're OK for Orton?

So 3 years from now when we're stuck in the SAME PLACE with Orton, what then? Which retread are we going to be longing for then?

Pretty sure the Broncos curbstomped us at their place, although Cassel did mount a feeble comeback it was far too late.

In Orton's defense, Denver had I believe the 32nd ranked defense. They were embarrassingly bad. And they had one of the worst ranked run offenses in the league.

Orton can't win things on his own. That's what elite QBs do. And we know he's probably not a franchise QB. But he's also not always been handed the best hand of cards.

My bad, he was talking about the 2011 game. In 2010, he threw 1 TD and 3 picks and we routed them.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

Why are the same standards not applied to Orton that are applied to Cassel?

Because he's not Cassel and didn't play for the Chiefs so he just HAS to be better?

This is lunacy folks. Absolutely crazy.

It's Kyle ****ing Orton.

This place looked smarter talking about Peyton Manning and that's saying something...

He wants out of KC because he sees how dysfunctional the FO is and Cassel is the sacred cow that will not be replaced. Therefore he will play poker to get paid more $$ if he has to ride the pine behind his inferior teammate who will start or get paid more $$ in Dallas to ride the pine. Just a damn shame that he has to ride the pine in either place because he pees less on himself than both Cassel and Romo.

Can you blame him?

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Going from a C- to a C+ isn't much improvement, but it's something...

Hey Cassel sucks, so let's replace him with a stronger-armed version of himself.

Let's set the bar a little higher for our starting QB, than what everyone else in the league deems as a back-up.

No, I can't blame him at all. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near KC.

That was pretty much my point.

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Why work my ass off doing homework 5 hours a day to get a C+ when I can watch TV and play video games and coast to a C-?

Cassel is bought and paid for. It makes no sense to spend money on a modest, at best, upgrade, especially when the guy doesn't want to be here in the 1st place.

The Matt Cassel era just keeps on giving. If we can look back to the Donkey game i was referring to, that is when Piolis' eyes lit up and he could tell Cassel was the qbotf. He put up several td's against that putrid donkey defense.

We're gonna hang our hats on one fluke game where the defense shut down one of the most explosive offenses in the history of the league.

Because he can complete a pass over 15 yards without it looking like a wounded duck. If we're going to have an average guy behind center better at least get one with an arm possible of making all the throws.

I don't like the idea long term but you sign him for 3 years and make your move for a QB when we're in better position to do so...

The outcome would NOT have been the same if Cassel was under center. As little as you want to say Orton contributed to the game...he did what he needed to do. He did not shit himself and fall into the casseleque-fetal position.

If they sign him for 3 years, he's gonna be the starter for 3 years, unless he can't beat out Matt Cassel.

There is no "upside" to signing Orton.

The infamous DISS by Haley to McDaniels game? Remember that game?

He isn't Cassel.

Cassel would not have won the Packer game.

However, you could make a STRONG case that Cassel's "protect the ball at all costs" fetality would have WON the Raider game.

It's not about ONE GAME. It's about a season.

Both of them are 8-8 QBs.

Neither is Tyler Palko. Let's bring him back.

If McCarthy throws the flag it's a fumble and touchback in the 4th quarter.

Not to mention the guy is actually capable of reading defenses and cycling though his reads to find the open man.

And then he throws a pick...

Yes.

That or we can continue to smash our hat into a big steaming pile of cow shit.

No need to defend Cassel...

hits, I get you dont like Orton and agree he's not the answer to our qb problems but to say he is no better than the turd Polio brought with him is a little questionable.

The upside is Pioli dumping Casshole and moving on.

If he isn't willing to take that baby step towards reality whatever we decide to argue about other QB's is moot...

FYP

Would you rather smash your hat into cow shit for one more year or smash your hat into horseshit for the next 4?

Why are they not applied to Cassel? Because this is what I see in Cassel. I see an inaccurate QB who throws an average ball, one of the least accurate QBs in the league beyond 15 yards (statistically proven). We see a guy who locks onto his first read and often misses an open guy. A guy who panics under pressure. In 2010, I saw a QB who was dared by defenses with 8-man fronts to throw the ball, and he continued to miss opportunities to move the chains. Cassel won games because of his defense. In 2011, when defenses began blitzing him, it became clear Cassel was doing nothing in his pre-snap reads. There's nothing good to say about him. If you give him weapons like Randy Moss and a pre-determined read offense, he can do fine. But that's

What I saw in Orton is a QB who throws an above average deep ball. He throws a very good ball with touch and accuracy. He puts it right where he needs to. He is a relatively smart QB in that he can go through his reads and progressions. Where he falls a little short is that while he makes good pre-snap reads, he's not going to make major adjustments the way Brady or Peyton do. He can be inconsistent and risky, but that's something you can tone down if you surround him with a good running game, something he never had in Denver. You can tell him to be more conservative, because the defense can actually hold points. Orton showed a remarkable ability last year to move the chains, something we could have really used in 2010 when Cassel started almost every first half with a string of 3 and outs. He struggles in the red zone, which is where it helps to bring in 2 backs who are dangerous in the red zone. Again, something Orton has never really had. And yes, I dont' know that Orton will put in the kind of time you'd want from an elite QB.

And no, I don't believe he's a franchise QB. I don't think anybody is. No, I don't want to build my team around the idea that we have to cover up the flaws of our QB. But Orton is a great stopgap, whereas Cassel is a backup.

We're gonna dump Cassel and move on regardless. Season ticket sales don't lie. The only question is whether or not Pioli moves on with him.

Signing Orton isn't a "baby step" towards another QB. Orton isn't gonna be here for 1 year. If we sign Orton, we need to be prepared to go through the EXACT same process we have gone through with Cassel.

haha who gives a shit about orton?

bye....

And therein lies your problem.

There's a complete lack of acceptance of reality in that statement.

If they bring in Orton to start, he's going to START. He's NOT going to be a stopgap. He's going to be 4 years of not getting it done, just like Cassel.

Did we learn nothing from the 90s?

Well, the problem is, you don't like the Orton move because of what you anticipate the front office doing. I agree with that. I don't like the Orton move either if it means a multi-year commitment. I don't feel like Orton carries that same loyalty baggage.

For 2012, Orton will start, and he should. There isn't a better option out there. And Orton can actually win games for this team. I actually think he has potential to Alex Smith this team. Not your ideal situation, but again, you could do worse. And yes, Matt Cassel isn't just worse, he's significantly worse than Cassel.

There isn't anything we're going to do this year to get a legit starting QB. Outside of Manning there isn't one in FA and we're not making a move in the draft.

Orton is only the best of the options available this year...

Matt Cassel took the team to 10-6 and a first-round playoff loss. Can Orton do SIGNIFICANTLY more than that?

If the answer is "no" (and we both know it is) then Cassel is NOT significantly worse.

And make no mistake about it - signing Orton will almost certainly mean a multi-year commitment.

1) It's the Chiefs way. Why draft and develop when you can sell enough tickets with a 4-year band aid?

2) Kyle Orton isn't going to sign a 1-year deal, especially not in KC.

There will be options next year and the year after next.

If we sign Orton, we won't entertain any of those options.

Orton appeared much more comfortable with what Zorn was asking him to do than Cassel did last year. Cassel looked like a shell of what he was in 2010 which wasn't all that much, but at least passable at times.

Honestly, I'd rather roll the dice with Weeden or Stanzi for 2 years than either Cassel or Orton.

I might be crazy, but I think we could still be in on Manning. We are acting like teams that are in on him, quiet in FA so far, scheduling visits with OL players, or mainly offensive players in general and not looking at anyone at the QB market, not even Kyle (who is looking at a back up role?) who Romeo gushed over. What does Kyle know that we dont? Yes, it could be Pioli stinks or could it be he knows that Chiefs are looking at Cassel as backup?

Granted, it could be me wishful thinking and wanting to believe there is a valid reason our FO seems to be doing nothing, but until Manning signs, we cant believe shit the media is saying. Including KC is out.

This.

We did this year. Signed him to a 1 year deal and now seem more than happy to let him walk.

I like Stanzi better coming off the bench. Low expectations, crowd all behind him, and no complete offseason to split the fanbase between Pro/Con sects...

Or that we were ever in the running to begin with...

Maybe Orton could be Rich Gannon 2.0?

wow

Except he's the opposite of Gannon, not too mobile but has a cannon for an arm.

Could he be Deberg-ed?...

Dude. Nobody is saying keep orton for more than a year.

But for that 1 year I'd much rather have the better QB.

or he could be Bono 4.0

Yes. I think Orton can take the Chiefs to 10-6 even with a tougher schedule. And no, I don't think Orton shits his pants the way Cassel did against baltimore. It's impossible for any QB to be any worse.

There's no problem with having Orton on your roster if it means in year 2, you start trying to develop a QB. And no, I don't think you resort to a 5th round pick like Stanzi unless it's your last resort.

True. Really anything is possible...

There is a reason Denver cut him mid season and the Bears dumped him. You don't get rid of a decent QB in this league for basically nothing.

Orton is still in Dallas and they are making a strong case to not let him leave till he signs,

Link.

What Orton showed was a very good ability to move the chains. That's something that I've always said could have made the Chiefs 13-3 in 2010, and would have won us Baltimore. That could be especially dangerous if we go back to a run-heavy attack where Charles and hopefully Tolbert wear down defenses. We saw him produce 2 wins even without Moeaki and Charles, two guys we get back. Hes a guy who needs good pass protection and he'll get that, with the possibility of up to 3 upgrades this offseason on the offensive line. His red zone woes will improve if you get him real red zone backs.

The Time of Possession game isn't my favorite way to win, but it's a way to win. The Jets and Ravens and 49ers have seen success with it. I think Orton is every bit as good as Sanchez, Flacco, and Alex Smith.

I'm saying this from the standpoint of... I never want to see this team milk it for better picks. What the **** is the point of developing Weeden -- even if becomes very good, he'll probably be 31-32 when he peaks. And what's the point of starting Stanzi--to capitalize on the 1% chance that he slipped that far under the radar by accident?

If it's not Peyton, it has to be Orton.

The Bears dumped him because they had a window to get a franchise QB, something that rarely ever happens. The Broncos dumped him for political reasons.

That's not the same thing as cutting a guy.

Orton is a top 15 QB. He's much better than a lot of options out there. Is he a guy we should be depending on for more than 2 years? No.

The Bears forced him to share time with a littany of garbage at QB. They NEVER committed to him as a full-time starter because he could never separate from the littany of GARBAGE they had at QB.

The Broncos cut him because they were 1-4. Political reasons my ass...

That's not the same thing as cutting a guy.

Lay off the shrooms.

Come back to reality.

Orton is NOT signing for a 1-year deal.

I don't know why people even bring it up.

The Bears' system was a 3-step drop, 1-read offense. Something Orton mentioned and it's clear when you watch any highlights. It was a horrendous offensive system. Chicago is not a good benchmark for what Orton is capable of.

With a new offensive system in a strike-shortened season in an environment where fans were calling for his head before the season even started. I put a lot less stock on that and a lot more stock on what we started to see in Kansas City. The Broncos cut Orton because they had to start Tebow and couldn't afford to pay Orton to be a backup.

Orton is on the same level as Sanchez, Flacco, Alex Smith and Hasselbeck. I don't see why he couldn't be on the same level as Matt Ryan, given that Orton has never had a Matt Ryan-like supporting cast (but he will with the Chiefs). He is not elite. He is not franchise. However, he is a middle-of-the road starter, whereas Cassel is a low-tier starter/quality backup.

I felt victim to this getting into the Cassel v Orton debate earlier in this thread but it's a moot point.

Pioli is going to gladly let Orton go. Cassel is the guy. We're screwed. We just have to live with it.

Pointless to talk any further about Orton.

I think so. I saw enough and he is probably the one guy who can cope with Dabold cause he knows enough with enough ability to render Dabold essentially useless and therefore harmless...It neutralizes that hire until Pioli, Romeo and Dabold are all gone in 2 years, 3 years max. So I think Orton makes a lot of sense, we are going to win enough games that even next year getting a QB could be difficult. So take him...this can definitely work. Get DeCastro with the #1, Winston FA, Tolbert FA and take Weeden in 2nd and take a DT in the 3rd.

Our quarterback situation makes me want to punch a baby.

The upside is he is watchable as a fan, Cassel is not.

He doesn't have to sign for a 1 year deal. He can be signed for multiple years, and then get cut after we replace him. It's not a hard concept.

so your saying that you would rather receive aids by anal injection vs falling over a burning aids bush?

They harder concept to understand is why do you want to replace one pile of shit for another?

Its like beating your dick with a meat tenderizer... Cant see any gain from it...

I'd rather roll with Stanzi at this point. Dude showed a little moxie in presseason. I'll wait and see what FA's come in before jumping on Weeden's bandwagon.

Pro Football Weekly ‏ @ProFootballWkly Close
QB Kyle Orton has signed a three-year deal with the #Cowboys, per @AdamSchefter.

So much for him not wanting to be a backup.

He would rather back up Tony Romo then compete for a starting job here. Jesus.

ahahahahahahahahahah

Pioli is totally bringing in competition for Cassel y'all, that's why he didn't sign Carr

herp derp

God dammmit
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there is no competition here

Brady Quinn......COME ON DOWN!!!!!