Cops & Homeless Man
 

http://www.newschannel10.com/story/2...omeless-camper


Critics question the fatal shooting of a homeless camper
Posted: Mar 24, 2014 5:20 PM CDT
Updated: Mar 24, 2014 4:50 PM CDT





New Mexico - Critics of the Albuquerque Police Department are raising serious questions about the fatal shooting of a homeless camper.

38-year-old James Boyd argued with police for more three hours last Sunday about illegally camping in open space.

Boyd continued to refuse officer commands and began threatening their lives causing officers to open fire.

Boyd had a violent 20-year criminal history including multiple incidents of violence against officers and years of mental health related concerns.

Sorry the video is in the link. It's crazy.

Hey let's arrest him either know he's dead.

Thats murder...were talking with him for 3 hours....they couldnt get a tazer gun? Not buying it. they also shot him in the back. Murder....badge or no badge.

That shit is ****ed up. Police murdered this guy , I don't give a **** what he did in the past.

Watch the video before reaching any conclusions.

Yep same result, murder.

guy was not an aggressive threat...was not walking towards them aggressively and in fact shots were fired when turned to run after being shot initially. The first shot may not have killed him. they couldnt radio in for tazer gun if they didnt have one? no they wanted to kill that guy. it was not self defense, it was murder. its very clear.

I didn't make my conclusion till I watched. ****ing murder.

After three hours, they apparently decided to throw a flash bang at him and send in the dog. He didn't go down. He then reached into his clothing. They shot him.

God I hate this police state we are coming to.

Donger, they murdered that ****ing guy.

They didn't kick him after fatally shooting him, They did worse, Shot him with bean bag gun 3 more times. I ****ing hate cops. Think they are the law.

Oh ****, if you didn't think that was excessive force then you my friend are in denial.

it says they tried tazering him before they shot him...they are lying

That's murder.
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Murder.

Suicide by cop. He got exactly what he wanted.

thats homicide. If DA wont prosecute, they better send it to a grand jury.

This.

Murdering pigs. Raider fans.

I like how they use the non-lethal force after they already killed him... by shooting him in the back.

Looks pulled a knife out after the flash bang went off. If the guy was mentally ill, (which was pretty evident just by watching the short video), why wasn't he being helped so something like this never had an opportunity to present itself? No mental health budget I guess.

I think the officers plan failed. They probably expected him to go down when the flash bang went off. When he panicked and grabbed his knife, the officers panicked and put him down. Should have tazed him or shot him with bean bags as soon as the flash bang went.

the homeless man had two knives in his hands. the officer that attacked him first had 42 knives in his mouth.

too close to call for me.

my only judgement is that the cop with the go pro camera is a ****ing moron. he was was firing auto bursts right over another cops shoulder WHILE they were moving forward toward the perp. the moron cop got lucky that the canine handler pulled his dog back just before the gunfire

someone shouted booyah to celebrate the gunfight. that doesn't look good for the cops

I think bean bags and a taser would have got it done!

I think what's also crazy is that they showed the whole press conference with the unedited video on the nightly news.

I think it should go to a jury trial. I don't know if the man has any family but maybe they could get a wrongful death case against the police department?


So much the cops could have done different even offer the guy food and a place to stay? I think they could have had a female reason with the guy and not be honcho Mr. Tough Cop. They handled this very poorly & should be held accountable.

Well apparently the cops can beat a homeless man to death on videotape and not get convicted, so shooting shouldn't be a problem right?

Police departments as a whole have a very good track record of getting away with murder.

Why didn't they just use the damn cop dog to unarm the homeless guy with knives? THAT is the job of a K9 cop dog. That dog could have solved all this from 3 hours of bull shit talk that went no where. The dog would have been a hero and the dude would have lived.

Wut?

K9s are very costly, and trained to grab/bite an arm, they can still be stabbed with the other arm....

So you value a dog over a human life?

He still had the knives, and they didn't know he had a fatal wound. When the cops moved in to make the arrest be pulled out two knives. Knives are considered deadly force. It's a shame because he needed a lot of mental help, but the only person that failed him was himself. His history suggests he has talked to doctors before, he probably wasn't following the doctors diagnoses and treatment plan.

Do you value a criminal's life over an officer's? Don't troll, I'm trying to just give perspective. The two officers moving in were in immediate physical life threatening danger. It's suicide by cop, from a poor sap that had some wires crossed. It's tragic.

That is straight up murder by three cowards.

That's a red herring, the question was whether that mans life could've been spared if it meant risking the dog's life. I think so, and I think it's ridiculous to cite the cost of the dog to defend the officers' actions.

Well I didn't mean it like a defense for the officers actions, the actions of the officers are already clearly defended by the actions of pulling knives when getting arrested. Using the dog (a tool for the officers) would be misuse in this instance. Dogs are not the answer for deadly force.

And the mans life could've been spared like it had in precious occasions when he didn't pull knives out on the arresting officers.

Can we please not lose personal accountability.

First that dog could have rip that guy a new one disarming him and taking him down to keep the human cops safe and they then could zone in on the guy to handcuff him. I doubt the dog would have got seriously injured if properly trained.

I don't know his mental state of mind they say he had mental problems but if he was capable of being honest with himself then human life is more important. So what if he wanted to sleep in the park he was homeless? Three hours arguing with the guy when they could have been more civil and less threatening themselves. I bet a WOMAN could have offered the man a samwich and a place to go for shelter and he would have listened and say thank you.

Like accountability for multiple trained officers with incapacitating weapons and an attack dog who decide that shooting a man in the back in the best course of action?

What I am saying crazycoffee is that they did not waist all means necessary before using lethal force. The cops could have tried other ways before killing the guy.

You know, I was visiting friends in Louisville KY back in the 70s. A news cast that evening was talking about a Police shooting in Cherokee Park (where the hippies hung out) and they identified the victim as being mentally unstable. The report went on to say that he was shot while running naked through the park. The Police on the scene claimed he had a concealed weapon. Swear to God that story is the truth. Guess they were afraid of his Johnson...

I was raised to respect the Police. Had an Uncle who was a cop for 30 years. I wasn't there and I don't know what actually happened. However, there are FAR too many incidents of this crap happening today. If they aren't entering a persons property and shooting barking dogs, they are killing citizens rather than using less than lethal force. I have lost all respect for cops.

Guess it's just a sign of the times we live in...

The bean bag gun was enough by itself to subdue this guy.

No they weren't. Unless the guy was planning to throw the knives while facing away from the cops.

2nd grade playground bullies with badges.

But what you don't understand, the game changed when he pulled out the knives. You don't taze a knife wielding man, capable of using them, regardless of his living conditions, religion, race or mental state. You meet deadly force with deadly force. If I'm there I do the same thing before he uses the knives against me, co-workers, or the dog.

The caveat being if he was a 80 year old man where it would be harder to believe the mans threats to kill me with knives he could barely hold, let alone swing or throw at the other officers.

No it's not, it's be same arguement that school shootings are on the rise, they really aren't, it's that news is easier to obtain. "Less than one half of one percent of all US police are as corrupt as you claim, that's better averages than clergymen". /Paul Harvey.

As to the rest of this story (see what I did there?) some of you have cinematic opinions about what a slightly moderate trained human being can do with a knife, let alone get lucky, I don't get paid enough money to take that chance, if I feel threatened, I'm pulling that trigger.

If they had actually used a tazer that would've ended it, no one can take a shot from those and go on... if they have an honest coroner he'll confirm that there are no taser marks.

I've seen people pull the taser needles out of their skin while getting a full charge. Then I watched him pull his nut sack open (like hulk Hogan pulling his shirt off before a bout) and fling one of his nuts on the wall because he didn't think I could make him leave his house. He was being arrested for stabbing his brother in the leg because it was his turn to **** their mother that night and the other brother said no.

Well I find that totally not true. In fact I witnessed a bike cop get off his bike and taze a dude coming at him that apparently had a knife. It happened right in front of our apartment like it was "Cops in 3d" The dude fell flat on his face onto concrete. The cop was then able to hand cuff him and they took him away. First the cop warned the guy but the guy who was a good 6'3" kept lunging for him and even told the cop to shoot. He used a tazer and down he went. So I know good and well tazers work & that is what they used to stop him in his tracks. So don't tell me tazers don't work I've seen it work.

And I've seen them not work too, see above. That's great that it worked in tat case, but if he had shot the guy it wouldn't be "murder".

I've seen tazers not work too.

Video aside, are you saying you would risk dying by being stabbed because you tried to taze someone rather than shoot them?

It's basic policing, you meet force with force. A knife is deadly force.

Well just seems to me in this case the cops were tired of dealing with the guy so they let him have it. They were the ones being aggressive and agitating the guy who just wanted to be left alone. That's how I see it yet there are laws for vagrants not to sleep in parks. It was a bad stand off the guy lost.

And I think common sense didn't win out. A normal person, with guns pointed at them, will do what they are told and not argue holding knives.

Like I said, I have no respect for police any longer. Haven't had any for the last 5 or so years. That cop in Texas that shot that 76 year old man because he reached for his cane (now a cane "looks" like a shotgun) is proof that they would rather shoot first - and then do the paperwork.

I did 2 tours in Viet Nam. I KNOW when to shoot and when NOT to shoot. I carried a weapon all over Europe for 13 years. 7 days a week, 365 days a year. I KNOW when to shoot and when NOT to shoot. PLEASE explain to me, how several officers staring at a man's back are in "immediate danger". If an intruder breaks into my home and I shoot him in the back - I will most likely face charges of murder. That man might have been fleeing from my home.

Finally, if you don't "get paid enough money to take that chance" - I suggest you find another way to earn a living.

So this guy not only shrugged off a tazer, but he tore open his scrotum and literally ripped off one of his nuts?

Am I reading that right, or am I missing some something here?

The mom part? I don't even...

I also know that in some cases tazers don't work especially if a guy is on something and his adrenalin is rushing. In this case I said I thought the dog should have or could have been able to disarm him and take the guy down for the cops to come in. I wasn't even talking about tazing but that got brought up. Anyways I also think a woman could have talked her way to get the guy to sit down and eat a samwich then talk to the guy to stay somewhere else. The cops were aggressive from the start and lasted three hours & I think they could have handled it in a peaceful manner by being nice to begin with.

JMO.

It is absolutely a tragic way for him to go. I'm in full agreement with you that I don't like it ending this way, human life is very important to me. The decision to work in this field for 20 years now is not one I don't take lightly, I hope I act as well as I can in any situations I face and always hope three very serious things if I'm ever in this situation. That I go home, that I don't pull the trigger unless I have too and I can live with the decision.

I'm not even sure that the 2 knives were the threat that set the cops off. The homeless man was speaking word salad and mentioned murder, assault, getting hurt, and takeover. we'll just count that as one verbal threat. he turned his back to the officers and the knives became visible. flashing knives and guns at cops, even unintentionally, is a threat. that's 2. The biggest threat is him turning around and picking up his backpack/box. 3

WHATS IN THE BAAAWWWWWXXX?!!?!

and the fourth threat is the obvious one, drawing knives.

You got it. Sickos all of them. The brothers used to fight with samurai swords in the street. Have been arrested for flashing at the grocery store, have histories with drugs and running/fighting from/with us.

My partner had a little crusty piece of hairy ball sack on his calf area on his pants that we didn't notice until a couple hours later. Lol

Ok I get this for an argument. He didn't have any common sense. Someone else said suicide by cop that could also be the case.

I just think the dog could have put the guy down and cops subdue him & it would have been over in minutes.

Let the dog do his job.

I was beginning to think... actually, I was hoping, that you were just laying it on thick there.

THEY should be the ones getting shot here...

The knife was still in the brother, if he had that in his hand, and if I felt threatened, I probably would have shot him before tasing him....

Ok, I've said my peace here on this tragic topic. I'll not return so the cop bashers can come back and vent their hate for other human beings.

There was no "force"

Look, I would never say that there aren't times when deadly force NEEDS to be used to save lives - whether it be the Police or the public. I fully support an officers responsibility to have to make that split-second decision. The Officer that shot that old man in Texas was cleared of any wrong doing but that does little for the 76 year old invalid.

The cop that shot that service dog in Filer Idaho and then watched as the dog crawled away to die was cleared also. Even after he cursed at the invalid in a wheelchair for letting the dog outside. Doesn't do a damned thing for the invalid whose dog was executed in his front yard. That cop is a fat-assed piece of crap.

This story, however, seems to go well beyond the norm for "abuse of power". All the firepower that they had at their disposal against a couple of knives held by a man with his back to them. Sorry, there is no excuse for that and those cops should be held for trial. They will not be.

Again, that's the times we live in. Get used to it. It will probably get much worse before it gets better.

Cops need to shoot more people.

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That's nice the cop was able to stop the guy with a tazer but someone running at you with a knife is enough to use deadly force. That guy is lucky he's still alive.

I wonder what the over/under on how many people police murder a month would be if all facts were brought to light?

If the homeless guy pulled the knife when the dog is on him then he's getting shot. that dog is a police officer. You stab or shoot a police dog you're going to be met with deadly force. It's unfortunate they couldn't get this taken care of in a non lethal manner. Shouldnt have gone on for over 3 hours. In my opinion should have used non lethal when he wasn't listening to commands. Other ways this could have been handled so no one losses a life.

Hell, yeah.

I am in total support of using deadly force if a guy is coming at you with a knife, or the equivalent.
But am under no such illusion that a lot of cops don't shoot first, ask questions later, and tell whatever story is needed, truthful or otherwise to justify taking someone's life in the line of duty.
To a lot of police, from what I have seen, believe that they are almost a different species than the rest of the population, and the rules apply to everyone else, are not meant for them, and the lives, and lively hoods of everyone else are worth very little.

I have also met police that are some of the best human beings on the planet and do not want to convey the message that I believe that everyone wearing a badge is like the people described above.

I know that it is not the same thing, but check this video out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O9GmUcp0Mo


Again, I grew up with an Uncle that was a cop. Were he still alive, he would have kicked this Cop's ass up one side of the street and down the other. The most unprofessional example of police "professionalism" that I have ever seen. And he us still on the job. Gee, I can't imagine how UPS, Fed Ex and the mailman were ever able to do their jobs around these "mad dogs".

That needs a different thread, it's completely different. I have a real hard time believing he felt threatened by that dog. I also hate that site, it promotes a negative agenda.

im usually on the cops side with this type of stuff but that was f'ed up imo... The guy looked scared when they shot the smoke, and he didn't know wether to put his hands up or down, and the minute he started to go to the ground the other way they shot him.. I mean honestly that was 5-10 seconds tops before they shot if that.. and you gotta know his mind is going crazy the minute they fired some stuff and is probably in shock trying to react to the situation and what they are saying to him... I feel sorry for the guy regardless of his past..

This is why I keep out of crap like that though and if theres trouble I don't sit there arguing with cops to get myself into trouble.. Why even put myself in a situation like that.

2 cops in every state die a year on average, so that means 100cops die a year.. so in "theory" over a thousand cops have died since 2004.. And I believe that statistic is not counting friendly fire...

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lol, right? Super ****ed up people out there.


CC, I want to defend the officers because I realize how tough their job can be, especially when every yahoo civilian wants to question their every move. My only problem in this case is that they shot as the man was turning his back on them. Any solid reasoning for that?

So they should of waited to shoot him after he stabbed and killed the police dog? As soon as they shot him and he hit the ground they were yelling at him to drop the knifes. Which makes me believe he pulled the knife when the dog was on him. Which would make deadly force justified since the guy had the ability, the means, the opportunity and the intent to kill that police dog. You need those 4 things to justify deadly force to protect yourself or others. Or maybe I missed something in the video. But I think other actions could have been taken to prevent this from happening.

if he "pulled" the knife then yeah, that's a act of violence and if he is a Skilled daggersman (hell if I know) he could throw it at a cop and kill him.. Im just saying from what I can see on the video which is the only evidence I can go buy.. I cant see if he had that knife in his hand the entire time or just when shit hit the fan..

if he had the knife in his hand the entire time then it doesn't make sense on that being the reason they decided to shoot 3 hours later when hes had it in his hand the whole time..

I said I would leave so the bashers could vent, but you gave me a direct question. It's a real time video, it's sooooo easy to arm chair QB the decisions. I can't speak to how these two officers felt, but I can put it in my own perspective.

Once the guy produced the two knives (after the flash grenade and the decision to go "hands on"), I'd have one second to decide if all his threats (from previous encounters, and/or the three hour conversation could be legit, how credible those threats are (could he possibly kill someone with those knives) and if I thought my life or someone else's life was in danger.

I watched the video a couple times. As two cops move up to arrest him, he dropped his bag and produced two knives. He took a stance of some sort. The first officer fired and the second officer fired with in milliseconds of each other. They are the "over watch" for the k9 officer (no gun drawn and within 10 feet of the wielded knives, the predesignated radius of leathal knife attacks) and the other "hands on" officer who was moving in to handcuff the guy.

Could he throw the knives? Accurately? Luckily? Did he flench and turn his back because he was hit by a bullet? Was he ducking and preparing to throw a knife?

That's a lot of questions I wouldn't be able to answer. Not even now as an arm chair QB, let alone react to in real time. You, and others, are claiming/asking if the shots were illegal because he was shot in the back, like it's so easy to know the outcome/intent. Or that he wasn't a real threat because he only had knives. But sick and drugged people in similar situations have been credible lethal threats with less than knives.

Try not to focus on just the tragedy this human being lost his life, but remember the tragedy of another human living with taking a life. It's equally as disturbing. Calling him a murderer isn't remotely fair. It's hyperbole. It's political agenda and fame hunting getting the best of someone and influencing the diagnosis of this situation. Don't buy it, feed it or give it merit. The tragic truth is this man died because he didn't accept help for many years, and let the voices in his head dictate the outcome of how his life ended.

Yea I don't know if he had the knife out already before they sent the dog, couldn't tell. If he did then I wouldn't have sent the dog, you wouldn't want to put the dog in that kind of situation. As a police officer you wouldn't just walk up on a suspect wielding a knife and go hands on. If he already had the knife out before the dog went in then they messed up imo.

No solid reason. None. One of the cops that shot first was fired from the NM state police for fraud. Originally wasn't supposed to carry a gun when hired on by APD. Go figure. :rolleyes: