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-   -   Cardinals ***OFFICIAL*** 2013 STL Cardinals Thread (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=269316)

duncan_idaho 05-15-2013 08:35 PM

Re: the Royals' system... Dayton Moore's success as a talent recruiter and developer depends on Hosmer and Moustakas doing more than show flashes. Like Alex Gordon in his early days, they have show enough to understand the hype but have struggled adjusting.

Billy Butler and Alex Gordon are well above-average major league players developed internally. Butler has succeeded basically from Day 1 (though his power has really only started to show up in HR over the past season and a half).

Gordon actually had a very nice sophomore campaign (.351/.432) before falling off the cliff for a few years and coming back on pace and living up to expectations.

He's on pace for a .325/25 HR/110 RBI/.350 OBP/.520 SLG year. Finally hitting to expectations.

I'd also point to Sal Perez, who has finally reached a full season's worth of career at-bats in the bigs and has hit .300+ while slugging in the .450 range.

But all that falls apart if one of Hosmer/Moustakas doesn't become a legitimate above-average player and the other at least average.

Using Myers/Montgomery/Odorizzi to add Shields and Davis is not a bad move, IMO. That's how a deep farm system SHOULD be leveraged.

As for the pitching prospects... John Lamb's Tommy John surgery was extremely bad luck. That was the best guy out of that group, IMO. And he looks like he might be the 1/10 guys that never comes all the way back.

They got some use out of Montgomery after he started to bust, and full value for Odorizzi.

That leaves Chris Dwyer (who actually is healthy and pitching pretty well at Omaha) and Danny Duffy (who looked very promising before TJ last year). I think they'll get good value out of Duffy as a solid No. 3 starter in the majors, and Dwyer can be a valuable trade piece, IMO.

My point:
The book still is open on the top-ranked farm system of a few years ago. It depends on Hosmer/Moustakas figuring it out and Danny Duffy coming back strong.

But yeah, some legitimate questions about the Royals minor league approach under Moore. And some questions that will stick about WHY he deviated from his draft strategy in 2010 to take Christian Colon instead of a higher upside college pitcher or high-upside high school guy.

Frazod 05-15-2013 08:37 PM

Ankiel just tied the game against us with a 2-run homer.

I don't mind seeing him do well, I just wish it didn't come at our expense. :grr:

duncan_idaho 05-15-2013 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mi_chief_fan (Post 9685106)
I'd go a step further: other than Greinke, they've been absolutely horrible at developing STARTING pitching, which I guess is the reason they traded for Shields & Davis.

FYP

The injuries to half their first wave of SP prospects are not really avoidable/organization fault. But the lack of SP development under Moore will remain a question until/unless Duffy/Zimmer/Ventura change the script.

They developed bullpen pitchers at a rate that is almost alarming.

'Hamas' Jenkins 05-15-2013 08:48 PM

The question remains:

We know that Ankiel lost his confidence and his mechanics and that his mental issues led to the collapse, but did anyone see a specific flaw in his mechanics as well?

Frazod 05-15-2013 08:50 PM

Lead restored. :thumb:

'Hamas' Jenkins 05-15-2013 08:57 PM

Frazod's reaction to our #3 hitter coming up this half inning:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fcwIEupH7UU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

duncan_idaho 05-15-2013 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 9685524)
The question remains:

We know that Ankiel lost his confidence and his mechanics and that his mental issues led to the collapse, but did anyone see a specific flaw in his mechanics as well?

I always thought release point was his issue. He just lost his release point and his confidence in letting it rip. Started trying to aim it/dart it and fell apart.

'Hamas' Jenkins 05-15-2013 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 9685618)
I always thought release point was his issue. He just lost his release point and his confidence in letting it rip. Started trying to aim it/dart it and fell apart.

I've always known little about throwing mechanics. I had a similar "yips" moment when trying to throw breaking pitches. I started opening up way early and for a long period of time couldn't accurately throw a baseball from 20 feet away. Really got in my head.

'Hamas' Jenkins 05-15-2013 09:05 PM

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fcwIEupH7UU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

'Hamas' Jenkins 05-15-2013 09:13 PM

Yadier....Celebraaaate.

ChiefsCountry 05-15-2013 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mi_chief_fan (Post 9685094)
Greinke did win a Cy Young. That said, trades like Melky Cabrera/Jonathon Sanchez & Wil Myers/James Shields have bit the Royals pretty hard.

Somebody is not paying attention to the Royals if you think those trades are fails.

'Hamas' Jenkins 05-15-2013 09:24 PM

That's a winner.

duncan_idaho 05-15-2013 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 9685623)
I've always known little about throwing mechanics. I had a similar "yips" moment when trying to throw breaking pitches. I started opening up way early and for a long period of time couldn't accurately throw a baseball from 20 feet away. Really got in my head.

Unless you pitch or coach past little league, there's little reason to study all the intricacies of pitching mechanics. At least when it comes to breaking pitches. So much weird, tiny little things (finger placement is easy, but pressure, release, when the arm pronates, how hard it pronates, elbow position when you snap it off, etc.).

Some guys just have a natural knack for it, and when they lose it, they have a really hard time finding it again. I think Ankiel was one of those guys. I was, too. I hard a hard time throwing a consistent curveball because of my motion/arm slot, but I had a pretty hard-biting slider. And that was just a natural thing I found messing around playing catch.

BigRedChief 05-15-2013 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod (Post 9685537)
Lead restored. :thumb:

You really think we were going to lose this one?

Mi_chief_fan 05-16-2013 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 9685713)
Somebody is not paying attention to the Royals if you think those trades are fails.

Well, jury's still out on the Shields/Myers trade, but how was the Sanchez/Cabrera trade not a fail?


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