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Hammock Parties 07-22-2012 12:45 PM

Todd Haley is the "Mystery of Pittsburgh"
 
Interesting read.

http://triblive.com/csp/mediapool/si...YPE=image/jpeg

http://triblive.com/sports/2195481-8...p-nfl-ben-didn

Quote:

Summer is the perfect time for a good read, yet nobody seems to be getting one on new Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley.

A Bill Parcells protégé known for adapting his play-calling to his personnel and being an innovative play caller, he is also a volatile sideline presence who inspires loyalty from some players but irritates others.

He is certainly not Bruce Arians, who was not-so-gently shoved out the door in January despite quarterback Ben Roethlisberger’s unwavering support. But, according to those who know Haley best, he also isn’t a control freak who implements change just to show he’s the boss.

While the Steelers generally shy away from coaches with colorful pasts, Haley has that and more, as evidenced by his well-publicized clashes with players and an abrupt departure as the Kansas City Chiefs’ coach last year in which he reportedly suspected team offices and his cell phone were bugged.

Now, Haley’s assimilation into the Steelers’ way of life is the latest Mystery of Pittsburgh, a shadowy yet intriguing riddle that will begin to be solved when the Steelers — coming off successive 12-4 seasons — open camp Wednesday in Latrobe. It figures to be a can’t-miss page turner.

“I’ve heard a lot of Todd stories — some good, some bad,” said former Steelers star guard Alan Faneca, who played in Arizona after Haley was the offensive coordinator there. “He’s definitely a hard worker and demands a lot. He can be very excitable during practice. But sometimes change is good, to get people out of their comfort zone.”

That’s already happened with Roethlisberger, who thrived in a Ben-friendly Arians offense that permitted him to improvise at will. Upon first glance at Haley’s playbook, Roethlisberger jokingly called it a Rosetta Stone course in a brand new language.

“That (change) has a way of keeping guys on their toes and keeping their focus, understanding what their goal is, and that’s to win Super Bowls,” Haley said during minicamp last month. “Win one this year — that’s our goal.”

Haley, 45, is the first outsider in 13 years to run the offense. But he’s no stranger to Pittsburgh or the Steelers; as a youngster in Upper St. Clair, he broke down game film with father Dick Haley, the former Steelers personnel chief who played a major role in some of the best drafts in NFL history in the 1970s.

FOOTBALL NOT FIRST LOVE

Todd Haley’s story isn’t the sit-on-dad’s-knee-and-become-a-football genius tale of Patriots coach Bill Belichick. In his teens, Haley shifted his emphasis to golf, playing in high school and at Florida and Miami in college.

The PGA, not the NFL, appeared to be his calling.

“But there never was a time he wasn’t into football,” said Dick Haley, who at 75 remains plugged into the NFL. “Because of some back problems, he got diverted into golf, but he always wanted to know about the players, about football. How many kids wouldn’t want to after rooming next to Joe Greene at training camp?”

The elder Haley left the Steelers to become the Jets’ personnel director in 1991 and, four years later, Todd was hired in the scouting department. Within two years, he was on Parcells’ coaching staff.

“Todd is bright, demanding, persistent, and he came along pretty well,” Parcells said.

Parcells didn’t care Haley hadn’t played football.

“I know guys who didn’t play and did very well in coaching, and others who played that don’t have a clue what to do,” Parcells, a two-time Super Bowl-winning coach, said.

Haley was promoted to wide receivers coach in 1999 before switching to the Bears in 2001, only to rejoin Parcells in Dallas in 2004.

Haley’s profile rose with his next job as the Arizona Cardinals’ offensive coordinator from 2007-08. With quarterback Kurt Warner headlining an imaginative offense highlighted by former Pitt receiver Larry Fitzgerald’s big plays, the Cardinals were second in passing and third in scoring in 2008. They went 9-7 during the season, but scored at least 30 points during three consecutive playoff wins and rallied from a 13-point deficit to nearly upset the Steelers in the Super Bowl.

That deep throw to Fitz-gerald that nearly sent the Steelers home a loser from Tampa? Haley’s play call.

Haley was subsequently hired as the Chiefs coach by general manager Scott Pioli, the former Patriots executive who worked for the Jets when Haley did. But while Haley went from 4-12 in his first season in 2009 to 10-6 in 2010, finishing third in the coach of the year voting, he was fired with his injury-ruined team reeling with a 5-8 record on Dec. 12.

STORMY DAYS IN K.C.

Haley is derecho-like — always going straight ahead, in full-go mode, and in Kansas City, storm clouds often loomed on the horizon.

Chan Gailey, retained from Herm Edwards’ staff to be the offensive coordinator, didn’t make it through training camp. Larry Johnson, the two-time former 1,700-yard rusher, questioned Haley’s coaching credentials in a Twitter message and was cut in 2009. And tight end Tony Moeaki was lost to a season-ending knee injury in the final 2011 exhibition game, when many NFL regulars rest.

“The quarterback (Matt Cassel) was real average. … It didn’t surprise me what happened in Kansas City. I didn’t have any real confidence in the whole thing,” Dick Haley said.

After Todd Haley departed, the Kansas City Star published a devastating article in which a number of former team employees revealed what they called an intimidating, secretive and stifling work environment. According to the Star, Haley himself suspected bugging at the practice complex.

“I don’t know what happened in Kansas City. I don’t think it’s relevant in Pittsburgh,” Parcells said. “But he probably learned a lot there.”

TUTORING BIG BEN

Given Haley’s sideline spats with Warner, Anquan Boldin, Terrell Owens and Cassel, his relationship with Roethlisberger should prove intriguing. Haley once said, “If you’re sensitive, (the NFL) is not the best place to be.”

“You accept people for what they are and get past the sensitivity level, if there is any,” Parcells said. “Both guys are smart enough to say, ‘Hey, we’ve got to make it work.’ ”

Torry Holt, a NFL Network analyst and former Rams star receiver, can’t wait to see how this plays out.

“Coach Haley has a strong personality. Ben has a strong personality. I’m sure Todd wants him to hone in on this or hone in on that, and Ben will try,” Holt said. “But out there on the football field, your instincts kick in and your competitive nature kicks in, and you kind of resort back to what you’ve always done.”

Haley’s take on Roethlisberger? “He’s a guy that’s been a really good player, and we’re going to try to keep that going and get even better,” he said.

Haley believes an offense must be physical, smart and disciplined, and his system resembles that of his former boss, Arizona coach Ken Whisenhunt, a Steelers assistant from 2001-06.

“Todd Haley represents the best of both worlds,” NFL Network analyst Jamie Dukes said. “With Kurt Warner, he threw it 45 times a game and didn’t blink. In Kansas City, he ran it 45 times a game. He’s got those three young wide receivers there in Pittsburgh, and Ben knows how to put the ball in the air. Todd will make the adjustments, and rather quickly.”

While Haley is an assistant again after being a head coach, his father insists he has never been happier now that he’s back home in Pittsburgh with his wife Chrissy and five children.

“He’s loving every second of this,” the elder Haley said. “He couldn’t be more excited.”

Dad Haley also realizes there is intense pressure to succeed as a high-profile coach in your hometown, even if former head coach Bill Cowher made it work.

“I don’t question he’ll do well. (But) there’s a lot of pressure to live up to what’s gone on there for a long time,” Dick Haley said. “And he’d better be good because there’s a lot of pressure on him right now.”

milkman 07-22-2012 12:55 PM

Dick Haley has a higher opinion of Cassel than I do.

Dave Lane 07-22-2012 12:56 PM

Good for Haley. Pittsburgh is a contender to go to the superbowl. We are not.

Dave Lane 07-22-2012 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 8759401)
Dick Haley has a higher opinion of Cassel than I do.

Yes average, when describing Cassel is politically correct.

Hammock Parties 07-22-2012 12:57 PM

I bet Haley doesn't sleep the week we play Pitt.

He has an extra day to prepare for us, too...and it's a 2nd straight road game for us.

Dave Lane 07-22-2012 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8759409)
I bet Haley doesn't sleep the week we play Pitt.

They are going to beast **** us.

BossChief 07-22-2012 01:00 PM

I'll always think the guy would have had us In the superbowl if he had a quarterback.

His dad probably agrees with that.

-King- 07-22-2012 01:01 PM

Ben will rape Haley by week 2. Im not worried.
Posted via Mobile Device

BossChief 07-22-2012 01:05 PM

Sure will be interesting to see Haley and Romeo face off on different sides of the field.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 01:05 PM

Who?

jd1020 07-22-2012 01:08 PM

"Chiefs" thread. :hmmm:

Munson 07-22-2012 01:09 PM

We're gonna lose to Pittsburgh by 5 td's, and Cassel will be sacked 12 times. Its gonna be ugly.

BossChief 07-22-2012 01:11 PM

We almost beat Pittsburgh with tyler Palko at qb for us.

Think about that for a second.

jd1020 07-22-2012 01:12 PM

Pittsburgh barely beat us last year with idiot Haley and Palko.

Planetman 07-22-2012 01:14 PM

We're 9-17 (I think) vs the Steelers.

Ugly.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munson (Post 8759441)
We're gonna lose to Pittsburgh by 5 td's, and Cassel will be sacked 12 times. Its gonna be ugly.

Really?

Explain how this happens.

mcaj22 07-22-2012 01:15 PM

i wish i could be the fly on the wall for the behind the doors debates on Cassel between Haley, Pioli, Clark, whoever.

So clear the Haleys knew he sucked just like the fans do. Big Ben is certainly an upgrade for Todd to work with.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 01:19 PM

They raped us the last time we were in Pitt.

That Steelers team was much, much better.

2-2 vs them since 2003.

Buehler445 07-22-2012 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 8759461)
Really?

Explain how this happens.

Cassel holds the ball too long, shits his pants, and gets crushed on 12 different plays.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 01:22 PM

I still think Todd played Palko as much as he did because he knew he was gone and it was a parting shot to Scott.

BossChief 07-22-2012 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 8759484)
I still think Todd played Palko as much as he did because he knew he was gone and it was a parting shot to Scott.

Suck for luck!!! /outside the box thinking

Kidd Lex 07-22-2012 01:28 PM

“I don’t know what happened in Kansas City. I don’t think it’s relevant in Pittsburgh,” Parcells said. “But he probably learned a lot there.”

Nice dig by the Tuna.

Hammock Parties 07-22-2012 01:29 PM

It would be awesome if Parcells hates his son-in-law.

Red Dawg 07-22-2012 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane (Post 8759404)
Good for Haley. Pittsburgh is a contender to go to the superbowl. We are not.

Good for Haley? Fugg him! He let Tyler cost the division He will fugg up Pitt's offense, count it.

jd1020 07-22-2012 01:29 PM

He looks so much happier in Pittsburgh, though.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 8759507)
He looks so much happier in Pittsburgh, though.

No Cassel.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 01:55 PM

Those who hate Todd can thank JC for blowing his ACL.

Without that, the Chiefs win the division and Todd is still HC.

Bugeater 07-22-2012 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 8759448)
We almost beat Pittsburgh with tyler Palko at qb for us.

Think about that for a second.

Haley started Palko at QB. Think about that for a second.

**** that guy.

Chiefs Pantalones 07-22-2012 02:10 PM

Players make coaches look a lot better than they are. If we had a franchise QB who knows what would've happened. All I know is he'd still be the head coach. Game managers are coach killers.

BoneKrusher 07-22-2012 02:11 PM

“The quarterback (Matt Cassel) was real average. … It didn’t surprise me what happened in Kansas City. I didn’t have any real confidence in the whole thing,” Dick Haley said.

this confirms it, Haley is a Dick.

mcaj22 07-22-2012 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs Pantalones (Post 8759590)
Players make coaches look a lot better than they are. If we had a franchise QB who knows what would've happened. All I know is he'd still be the head coach. Game managers are coach killers.

that's how all these shit coaches and execs from the Patriots can keep circling the NFL wagons and getting jobs thanks to their ties to Tom Brady. I.e. the Chiefs current coaching and FO situation, amongst many other teams that painfully had to go through it (Donks, Browns, Jets, etc)

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugeater (Post 8759585)
Haley started Palko at QB. Think about that for a second.

**** that guy.

I wish he had went with Stanzi, but he did what any HC would do after their starter goes down.

The mistake was starting Palko in Chicago.

Titty Meat 07-22-2012 02:23 PM

Todd Haley was a dumbass who didn't look prepared half the time. His teams challenged Herms teams for the biggest blowouts. Think about that for a second.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini (Post 8759616)
Todd Haley was a dumbass who didn't look prepared half the time. His teams challenged Herms teams for the biggest blowouts. Think about that for a second.

Matt Cassel

Ace Gunner 07-22-2012 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneKrusher (Post 8759592)
“The quarterback (Matt Cassel) was real average. … It didn’t surprise me what happened in Kansas City. I didn’t have any real confidence in the whole thing,” Dick Haley said.

this confirms it, Haley is a Dick.

a 6'3" Dick:D

Titty Meat 07-22-2012 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 8759626)
Matt Cassel

No.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini (Post 8759636)
No.

So Cassel had nothing to do with the failures of this team the past 3 seasons?

Titty Meat 07-22-2012 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 8759640)
So Cassel had nothing to do with the failures of this team the past 3 seasons?

Matt Cassel is part of the problem but he wasn't the whole problem. Todd Haley was a shitty coach.

It wasn't Matt Cassel who went for it on 4th down on his own 28 in a close game vs Denver.

It wasn't just Matt Cassel who look unprepared all of the 2011 pre-season and the first 2 regular season games.


BTW Herm had some really shitty QB's and not nearly as much talent as Haley and I don't recall his teams getting blown out as frequently as Haley's teams.

Chiefs Pantalones 07-22-2012 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcaj22 (Post 8759602)
that's how all these shit coaches and execs from the Patriots can keep circling the NFL wagons and getting jobs thanks to their ties to Tom Brady. I.e. the Chiefs current coaching and FO situation, amongst many other teams that painfully had to go through it (Donks, Browns, Jets, etc)

I think there's such thing as good coaches. What's more important is talent evaluators like GMs, scouts and even coaches if they can have a hand in picking players. But that's the extent of it, IMO. Everyone knows football at that level. As Parcells said, football is not rocket science. The likes of Parcells and Belichick are good coaches because they were smart and got lucky in their selecting of players. I'm not saying a good coach can't make a player better, he can. By motivation and obvious teaching tactics, yes. But the player already has the abilities (while some being higher or lower than others, obviously), the coaches are just trying to develop, motivate and coordinate the talent which DOES play a part in the success of a team. Gotta get the most out of your investment. But in the end it's up to the player how far they go in their development, not the coach. Everyone has a choice in everything they do. I don't have to watch that film if I don't want. I don't have to spend extra time in the weight room if I don't want. If I want to keep my job yes, that should be enough motivation, but not everyone is motivated by the same thing. Freaking Brodie Croyle, according to reports, spent more time duck hunting than getting ready for the NFL season. Just an example but yeah. Playing professional sports is not a right.

JMO :)

Pasta Little Brioni 07-22-2012 02:39 PM

Yep, the blowouts at Arrowhead and the preperation for last season were just ridiculous. Face it, the guy was in over his head as an NFL Head Coach.

mcaj22 07-22-2012 02:39 PM

Haley had such crap talent the last 3 years. Come on.

this is the first year in the Chiefs in a long time to be excited about talent.

What talent was there the last three years? Mark Bradley? Sabby Piscitelli? Leonard Pope? Thomas Jones? Mike Brown? Chris Chambers? Jackie Battle? Jon McGraw? Mike Vrabel? Andy Studebaker? Demorrio Williams? Zach Thomas? Amani Toomer? The list goes on and on and on and on. Talent was AWFUL.

The broke dick Zach Thomas thing was a joke.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini (Post 8759649)
Matt Cassel is part of the problem but he wasn't the whole problem. Todd Haley was a shitty coach.

It wasn't Matt Cassel who went for it on 4th down on his own 28 in a close game vs Denver.

It wasn't just Matt Cassel who look unprepared all of the 2011 pre-season and the first 2 regular season games.


BTW Herm had some really shitty QB's and not nearly as much talent as Haley and I don't recall his teams getting blown out as frequently as Haley's teams.

I don't give a shit about Todd anymore, but without the injuries, they win 9 or 10 and the division. Haley would still be HC.

Teams with Elite QBs can overcome deficiencies in coaching.

See Indy.

Titty Meat 07-22-2012 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcaj22 (Post 8759661)
Haley had such crap talent the last 3 years. Come on.

this is the first year in the Chiefs in a long time to be excited about talent.

What talent was there the last three years? Mark Bradley? Sabby Piscitelli? Leonard Pope? Thomas Jones? Mike Brown? Chris Chambers? Jackie Battle? Jon McGraw? Mike Vrabel? Andy Studebaker? Demorrio Williams? Zach Thomas? Amani Toomer? The list goes on and on and on and on. Talent was AWFUL.

The broke dick Zach Thomas thing was a joke.

Crap talent lol

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 02:44 PM

And why are the blow outs a big deal?

A lose is a loss.

DeezNutz 07-22-2012 02:44 PM

More love for a shit HC than I've ever seen before.

Haley was ****ing terrible, and we obviously all know what we have in our QB; the two were a perfect storm of suck.

Titty Meat 07-22-2012 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 8759669)
I don't give a shit about Todd anymore, but without the injuries, they win 9 or 10 and the division. Haley would still be HC.

Teams with Elite QBs can overcome deficiencies in coaching.

See Indy.

Would he still be the coach? There was talk that Pioli wanted to dump him last off season.

Regardless he was an awful gameday coach. I saw a Herm Edwards coached team in 2008 with a bunch of rookies almost beat the Patriots. Howcome Herm Edwards can have a team prepared to play but Haley can't? It says a lot about him as a head coach.

chiefzilla1501 07-22-2012 02:49 PM

Bruce Arians was a lousy coordinator. Any knowledgeable Steelers fan will tell you that. Big Ben pretty much saved his job.

Haley's style of offense is tailor made for Pittsburgh. I can guarantee they are going to go back to smash mouth football. The Chiefs' offense would have been downright nasty in 2010 if we had a QB who could didn't shit his leg on every 3rd down.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 8759676)
More love for a shit HC than I've ever seen before.

Haley was ****ing terrible, and we obviously all know what we have in our QB; the two were a perfect storm of suck.

What love?

gblowfish 07-22-2012 02:52 PM

Haley will probably do fine as an AC. He was in way over his head as a HC. He micro-managed, was a dick to his staff, was paranoid and hard headed at the end, and, oh yeah, was a lying sack of shit on several occasions.

But he'll probably do fine as something other than the "head guy." Same thing as Gunther. Shit as a head coach, OK as a DC.

jd1020 07-22-2012 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 8759552)
No Cassel.

It was a joke. He looks as pissed off as ever in that pic.

Hammock Parties 07-22-2012 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblowfish (Post 8759694)
Haley will probably do fine as an AC.

He's a cool guy.

Pasta Little Brioni 07-22-2012 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblowfish (Post 8759694)
Haley will probably do fine as an AC. He was in way over his head as a HC. He micro-managed, was a dick to his staff, was paranoid and hard headed at the end, and, oh yeah, was a lying sack of shit on several occasions.

But he'll probably do fine as something other than the "head guy." Same thing as Gunther. Shit as a head coach, OK as a DC.

Gun should have been canned following Detroit's playoff game last year.

Titty Meat 07-22-2012 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 8759675)
And why are the blow outs a big deal?

A lose is a loss.

It's hard to get blown out in the NFL given the talent is so equal. It's not just the blowouts it's also the demeanor on the sideline. Haley's actions were embarrassing and not indicative of a leader at all.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 03:00 PM

I just find all the Haley butthurt funny.

If we had a legit QB who could chuck it down field, the O would have been very good

Since when did the HC matter more than the QB?

Titty Meat 07-22-2012 03:02 PM

Nobody is saying the HC is more important than the QB but we could have had Eli Manning and still lost those first 2 games last year because the team was that unprepared.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini (Post 8759714)
It's hard to get blown out in the NFL given the talent is so equal. It's not just the blowouts it's also the demeanor on the sideline. Haley's actions were embarrassing and not indicative of a leader at all.

Its not hard at all.

All you need is a lousy QB who cannot sustain drives and gives the ball away.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini (Post 8759741)
Nobody is saying the HC is more important than the QB but we could have had Eli Manning and still lost those first 2 games last year because the team was that unprepared.

Bull shit

jd1020 07-22-2012 03:05 PM

I dont get the whole argument defending Haley because he didn't have a top 5 QB in KC.

He was a terrible coach. The end. Having a terrible QB doesn't excuse the lack of preparedness of the entire team.

Haley's offense in a nutshell: Draw to McCluster.

Titty Meat 07-22-2012 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 8759746)
Its not hard at all.

All you need is a lousy QB who cannot sustain drives and gives the ball away.

Yeah Herm had those and still didn't get blown out as much.

If I had a million dollars i'd be a millionaire. You arguing that Haley needs a great QB to cover up his flaws just proves the point Haley is a shitty coach.

chiefzilla1501 07-22-2012 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 8759753)
I dont get the whole argument defending Haley because he didn't have a top 5 QB in KC.

He was a terrible coach. The end. Having a terrible QB doesn't excuse the lack of preparedness of the entire team.

Because the same people who screamed for 5 years that this team is worthless without a franchise QB are now the ones who say Haley is a lousy coach because he couldn't win without one.

I don't know if Haley was going to be a good coach or a great coach. I do know that he deserved better than a front office stubbornly clinging to a bad QB. And he deserved better than the petty micromanagement and head games that Pioli was pushing on him.

jd1020 07-22-2012 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8759766)
Because the same people who screamed for 5 years that this team is worthless without a franchise QB are now the ones who say Haley is a lousy coach because he couldn't win without one.

I don't know if Haley was going to be a good coach or a great coach. I do know that he deserved better than a front office stubbornly clinging to a bad QB. And he deserved better than the petty micromanagement and head games that Pioli was pushing on him.

I'd take Cassel over Palko but maybe thats just me.

chiefzilla1501 07-22-2012 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 8759770)
I'd take Cassel over Palko but maybe thats just me.

And who's damn fault was that? Last time I checked, Pioli was the guy who had the power to bring somebody else in.

jd1020 07-22-2012 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8759771)
And who's damn fault was that? Last time I checked, Pioli was the guy who had the power to bring somebody else in.

Pretty sure Kyle Orton was on the team.

chiefzilla1501 07-22-2012 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 8759774)
Pretty sure Kyle Orton was on the team.

Oh right, THAT bullshit argument.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 8759774)
Pretty sure Kyle Orton was on the team.

Yeah, he should have started in Chicago.

jd1020 07-22-2012 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8759778)
Oh right, THAT bullshit argument.

Do explain.

L.A. Chieffan 07-22-2012 03:16 PM

Thank goodness Cassell is no longer hamstrung by this guy.

jd1020 07-22-2012 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 8759781)
Yeah, he should have started in Chicago.

I would have started him against Pittsburgh or at least brought him in in the 2nd half. A half assed offense with Orton > a full playbook with Palko.

chiefzilla1501 07-22-2012 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 8759783)
Do explain.

We're talking about one half of a game. Palko started over Orton. Haley made the QB switch in the second quarter. Orton dislocates a finger on the first play.

I'm not going to fault a guy because he doesn't want to put a guy with a serious injury on the field. And I'm not going to fault him if he didn't want to throw him into the fire a la Carson Palmer. I thought Orton should have started against Chicago. He didn't, but that's only one half of a game.

chiefzilla1501 07-22-2012 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 8759794)
I would have started him against Pittsburgh or at least brought him in in the 2nd half. A half assed offense with Orton > a full playbook with Palko.

Orton had only been with the team for about 2 days. He was signed 4 days before and took personal leave after he was signed.

This isn't the argument you want to use.

jd1020 07-22-2012 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8759801)
Orton had only been with the team for about 2 days. He was signed 4 days before and took personal leave after he was signed.

This isn't the argument you want to use.

You love for Haley is too cute.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 8759805)
You love for Haley is too cute.

Dude, seriously?

DeezNutz 07-22-2012 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8759766)
Because the same people who screamed for 5 years that this team is worthless without a franchise QB are now the ones who say Haley is a lousy coach because he couldn't win without one.

I don't know if Haley was going to be a good coach or a great coach. I do know that he deserved better than a front office stubbornly clinging to a bad QB. And he deserved better than the petty micromanagement and head games that Pioli was pushing on him.

No, I think Haley was horrendous b/c he was one of the worse game day coaches that I've seen in a long time. Completely and hopelessly lost on Sundays, and this quality and the suck of Cassel are mutually exclusive.

chiefzilla1501 07-22-2012 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 8759805)
You love for Haley is too cute.

That's always the best.

When you know you're dead wrong, go back to the attacks.

Admit you were wrong.

DeezNutz 07-22-2012 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8759801)
Orton had only been with the team for about 2 days. He was signed 4 days before and took personal leave after he was signed.

This isn't the argument you want to use.

Five set pass plays with Orton = exponentially better than anything involving Palko.

If you're remotely justifying Palko playing, your argument is laughably flawed. Hell, there's likely no way that Stanzi can be worse than Palko, and there was that option at the very least.

QB aside, Haley was and is a joke as a HC.

jd1020 07-22-2012 03:28 PM

Sorry, you are never going to get me to admit that Palko gave us a better chance to win than Orton.

What would you have stood to lose by bringing in Orton? Oh that's right... nothing.

chiefzilla1501 07-22-2012 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 8759809)
No, I think Haley was horrendous b/c he was one of the worse game day coaches that I've seen in a long time. Completely and hopelessly lost on Sundays, and this quality and the suck of Cassel are mutually exclusive.

Agree to disagree. If you think Haley was one of the worst, then you're in for a real treat with Romeo. Haley made a lot of dumb choices, but it seemed to me that he took a lot of big risks when he knew his team wasn't good enough to win without a little bit of luck. When the team was competitive, we didn't see nearly as many of those gaffes.

What's more important to me is that this was the most disciplined team we've seen in some time, and almost every player improved under his watch. Markedly. Haley made quite a few dumb mistakes, but I also know that he was crippled by horrendously micromanaged decisions that came from above him. Again, I don't know if he was a good or bad coach with better management up top. But one can't deny that those decisions didn't necessarily give him the fairest shot to prove it.

DeezNutz 07-22-2012 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8759825)
Agree to disagree. If you think Haley was one of the worst, then you're in for a real treat with Romeo. Haley made a lot of dumb choices, but it seemed to me that he took a lot of big risks when he knew his team wasn't good enough to win without a little bit of luck. When the team was competitive, we didn't see nearly as many of those gaffes.

What's more important to me is that this was the most disciplined team we've seen in some time, and almost every player improved under his watch. Markedly. Haley made quite a few dumb mistakes, but I also know that he was crippled by horrendously micromanaged decisions that came from above him. Again, I don't know if he was a good or bad coach with better management up top. But one can't deny that those decisions didn't necessarily give him the fairest shot to prove it.

Don't disagree with that statement, and I will concede that I could be underselling the bullshit of Pioli.

chiefzilla1501 07-22-2012 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 8759813)
Five set pass plays with Orton = exponentially better than anything involving Palko.

If you're remotely justifying Palko playing, your argument is laughably flawed. Hell, there's likely no way that Stanzi can be worse than Palko, and there was that option at the very least.

QB aside, Haley was and is a joke as a HC.

The Orton vs. Palko thing isn't even an argument. Few head coaches would ever march a QB on the field with less than 2 days of preparation. And many head coaches would never start Orton over Palko with the condition of his finger. You're saying he should have played completely unprepared or injured. In both cases, most coaches would have done the same exact thing.

BigMeatballDave 07-22-2012 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 8759822)
Sorry, you are never going to get me to admit that Palko gave us a better chance to win than Orton.

What would you have stood to lose by bringing in Orton? Oh that's right... nothing.

Orton wasn't even in uniform vs Pitt. He never made it to KC until Thursday.


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