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-   -   Football LT: Left behind (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=271834)

Bewbies 04-07-2013 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolf (Post 9564032)
This is a contradictory statement.

Passes are out faster. That means:
1. You don't block as long
2. You have less time to get to the QB

Lowers requirement for elite blockers, raises the need for elite pass rushers.

Got it Frankie?

LoneWolf 04-07-2013 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bewbies (Post 9564035)
Passes are out faster. That means:
1. You don't block as long
2. You have less time to get to the QB

Lowers requirement for elite blockers, raises the need for elite pass rushers.

Got it Frankie?

Passes are out faster. That means:
1. Elite pass rushers are going to be less effective.
2. You still need a dominant blind side protector to protect your most valuable asset, your QB on the occasions that the quick pass is not available.

There is a reason everyone has insurance on their cars and homes.

Got it PeytonsPrincess?

Ace Gunner 04-07-2013 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bewbies (Post 9564035)
Passes are out faster. That means:
1. You don't block as long
2. You have less time to get to the QB
3. NFL secretly allowing LT's to hold that mutha ****a like a mutha ****a
Lowers requirement for elite blockers, raises the need for elite pass rushers.

Got it Frankie?

FYP cuzz it's ALL ABOUT THA QB NOW and Goody Goodell is as crooked as they come

Bewbies 04-07-2013 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolf (Post 9564047)
Passes are out faster. That means:
1. Elite pass rushers are going to be less effective.
2. You still need a dominant blind side protector to protect your most valuable asset, your QB on the occasions that the quick pass is not available.

There is a reason everyone has insurance on their cars and homes.

Got it PeytonsPrincess?

Did you read the whole section about needing to be strong in all 5 positions up front?

This article doesn't claim that o-line isn't important, it says that the LT is no longer the building block.

An elite LT doesn't do shit if they are rushing you from the right side of your line....

tk13 04-07-2013 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 9563718)
Comparing one player to another is not suggesting that player is the same player, or that he will ever play to the level that the player has achieved.

But you can watch a player and see similarities in their game.

It's stupid to dismiss comparisons.

I can watch Reggie Bush even today and see the valid comparison of his style to Gale Sayers.

Anyone that would suggest that comparison is even remotely suggesting their production is similar is a moron that can't draw a distinction.

Well you can always make comparisons. But that doesn't mean they are a good idea. Matt Cassel's release when he was playing well was very similar to John Elway. He didn't have the arm strength or accuracy, but the physical mechanics of their throwing motion were very similar.

As far as Rodgers though... I don't think there's anyone out there like him. Stafford probably. The way the ball comes out of his hand, it's amazing. It is kind of that Elway-like zip to rip it down the field. Flacco probably has a bigger arm... but he throws a lot of rainbows.

tk13 04-07-2013 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolf (Post 9563861)
Both Super Bowl teams had 1st round starting LTs. Manning had a first round LT. The Patriots have a 2nd round and 1st rounder as their starting tackles. Seattle has Okung at tackle.

I'm not advocating taking Joeckel or Fisher, but this article while having some good points isn't being completely honest. Using Long and Thomas as examples is deceiving. They both have never had a good or even average QB playing behind them. And then using Matt Ryan as the example of a QB being successful in the playoffs without an upper echelon LT is hilarious. The one playoff win Matt Ryan whose team has repeatedly been upset in the playoffs?! Typical ESPN lazy reporting.

Matt Ryan is a good QB. I'd take him on the Chiefs in a second. If they didn't have a Greg Robinson-level secondary they would've been in the Super Bowl this year. That's why all that ga-ga about Wilson is a bit disingenuous. The Falcons DBs were leaving receivers wide open all over the field. It was horrible. That's why it was Wilson's only 300 yard game of the entire season. Same thing happened against the Niners.

But that said, even Matt Ryan had a 1st round pick at LT.

Saccopoo 04-07-2013 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bewbies (Post 9564187)
Did you read the whole section about needing to be strong in all 5 positions up front?

This article doesn't claim that o-line isn't important, it says that the LT is no longer the building block.

An elite LT doesn't do shit if they are rushing you from the right side of your line....

And that's the thing: teams are constantly switching their elite pass rusher to both sides in an effort to maximize matchups. It's no longer about DT, LT, Andre Tippett type guys who are on the right side 97% of the time just pinning their ears back to beat a single left tackle on third down. Guys are flipping sides, dropping into coverage, stunting, etc. all over the place in order to get into the backfield as soon as possible to disrupt the quicker pass oriented offenses on any down.

It's why you've got to spread out the capabilities of all the offensive linemen, just not put all your money into a blindside protector and four roadgraders.

It's why the term "blindside" doesn't have as much meaning as it did 10-15 years ago.

And why I really like the offensive line that we have. Pissholi deservedly got a lot of shit for what he did, but I seriously think that he put together the building blocks for establishing a very solid offensive line unit that has the potential to be one of the best in the league. The only guy he missed out on was Zane Beadles when he drafted McCluster instead, but otherwise, the pieces are in place to have a pretty darn good O-line, especially if they can re-sign Albert.

But even if they trade him, I'm not too worried about a line consisting of:

LT: Stephenson
LG: Asamoah
C: Hudson
RG: Schwartz
RT: Allen

especially if Lilja comes back for depth on the interior and they pickup a guy from someone's camp or draft a good tackle prospect this year. (KU's Hawkinson, Wisconsin's Ricky Wagner or Virginia's Oday Oboushi would all be ideal in that 5/6 round range. All have plus athleticism and have been very good pass protectors for their entire careers.)

Hammock Parties 04-07-2013 11:47 AM

I'd be scared to ****ing death of Stephenson at LT, sorry.

Penciling him in as a solid player at this point is laughable. HUGE question mark.

Same goes with Jeff Allen.

LoneWolf 04-07-2013 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bewbies (Post 9564187)
Did you read the whole section about needing to be strong in all 5 positions up front?

This article doesn't claim that o-line isn't important, it says that the LT is no longer the building block.

An elite LT doesn't do shit if they are rushing you from the right side of your line....

Teams like to rush from the left side because most QBs are right handed and they have a harder time seeing the rush from that side. The article is bogus and the fact that you are buying it hook, line, and sinker is laughable.

LoneWolf 04-07-2013 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 9564229)
And that's the thing: teams are constantly switching their elite pass rusher to both sides in an effort to maximize matchups. It's no longer about DT, LT, Andre Tippett type guys who are on the right side 97% of the time just pinning their ears back to beat a single left tackle on third down. Guys are flipping sides, dropping into coverage, stunting, etc. all over the place in order to get into the backfield as soon as possible to disrupt the quicker pass oriented offenses on any down.

It's why you've got to spread out the capabilities of all the offensive linemen, just not put all your money into a blindside protector and four roadgraders.

It's why the term "blindside" doesn't have as much meaning as it did 10-15 years ago.

And why I really like the offensive line that we have. Pissholi deservedly got a lot of shit for what he did, but I seriously think that he put together the building blocks for establishing a very solid offensive line unit that has the potential to be one of the best in the league. The only guy he missed out on was Zane Beadles when he drafted McCluster instead, but otherwise, the pieces are in place to have a pretty darn good O-line, especially if they can re-sign Albert.

But even if they trade him, I'm not too worried about a line consisting of:

LT: Stephenson
LG: Asamoah
C: Hudson
RG: Schwartz
RT: Allen

especially if Lilja comes back for depth on the interior and they pickup a guy from someone's camp or draft a good tackle prospect this year. (KU's Hawkinson, Wisconsin's Ricky Wagner or Virginia's Oday Oboushi would all be ideal in that 5/6 round range. All have plus athleticism and have been very good pass protectors for their entire careers.)

How often do players like Jared Allen, Tamba Hali, or Von Miller switch sides. I know Von rushes from the right side, but the QB is almost always looking at that side. That is why the LT is the most important position on the line.

Bewbies 04-07-2013 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolf (Post 9564251)
Teams like to rush from the left side because most QBs are right handed and they have a harder time seeing the rush from that side. The article is bogus and the fact that you are buying it hook, line, and sinker is laughable.

Tell me again why Notre Dame is as good as Alabama...

Do you pay attention to the positions getting big money? Have you not noticed the contracts LT's are getting is going down, while all the other line positions is going up?

In today's NFL the left tackle is no longer a top 3 piece to build your team around.

Saccopoo 04-07-2013 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonton Prejudice (Post 9564243)
I'd be scared to ****ing death of Stephenson at LT, sorry.

Penciling him in as a solid player at this point is laughable. HUGE question mark.

Same goes with Jeff Allen.

Then you should be downright terrified of them drafting guys like Joeckel, Fisher or Johnson.

Stephenson was as good as any of those guys as a junior and got good playing time late last season. He was definitely better than Johnson on the same team. A training camp with Reid and he's going to be ready to absolutely blow up.

And Allen was a four year starter at right (freshman) and left tackle (sophomore, junior, senior) for the Illini. Second team All-American as a freshman and made All-Conference lists every single year.

Don Stephenson at left tackle is one of my least concerning concerns for next season and I think that Allen has the capability of being a solid right tackle in this scheme. He's 6'4 1/2", 315 lbs. with good power, feet and hands. I hated that they (Crennel/Pissholi) tried to shoehorn him into the guard position, but with Winston gone, I think he's got a shot at the RT spot.

It's like Geoff Schwartz said: I can play right tackle, but I'm a better guard. Allen is a better tackle than guard.

No, my stated lineup wouldn't worry me in the least.

Chiefshrink 04-07-2013 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefMojo (Post 9563497)
Doesn't mean squat for Geno in our situation, it means that Dion Jordan could be the guy.

Yep !

Having a good rush in the 4th quarter is essential and will never go away especially in a pass happy league.

Hammock Parties 04-07-2013 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 9564348)
Then you should be downright terrified of them drafting guys like Joeckel, Fisher or Johnson.

Stephenson was as good as any of those guys as a junior and got good playing time late last season. He was definitely better than Johnson on the same team. A training camp with Reid and he's going to be ready to absolutely blow up.

And Allen was a four year starter at right (freshman) and left tackle (sophomore, junior, senior) for the Illini. Second team All-American as a freshman and made All-Conference lists every single year.

Don Stephenson at left tackle is one of my least concerning concerns for next season and I think that Allen has the capability of being a solid right tackle in this scheme. He's 6'4 1/2", 315 lbs. with good power, feet and hands. I hated that they (Crennel/Pissholi) tried to shoehorn him into the guard position, but with Winston gone, I think he's got a shot at the RT spot.

It's like Geoff Schwartz said: I can play right tackle, but I'm a better guard. Allen is a better tackle than guard.

No, my stated lineup wouldn't worry me in the least.

I'll eat a bug if Stephenson AND Allen are our starting tackles next season.

Reid isn't going to war with those guys based on their rookie tape.

penbrook 04-07-2013 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink (Post 9564355)
Yep !

Having a good rush in the 4th quarter is essential and will never go away especially in a pass happy league.

So the question will be is Jordan Halis bitch or Houstons bitch.


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