Let's do the Pioli thing again.
 

I know there's a strong anti-Pioli current around here, and some people pretty much want the guy gone yesterday.

It's not because he's building a lopsided team on one side of the ball, like we've had since we hired Marty Schottenheimer.

It's not because he's drafted poorly. Even if you include 2009, he's been a top five drafting GM. I don't give a shit about Dexter McCluster. At least he gives you something -- I prefer that burnt 2nd round pick to Turk McBride and Bernard Pollard.

It's not because he can't acquire talent. Excepting 2009, we've had successful acquisitions with virtually no busts in free agency.

Coaching hires? Please. Haley and Crennel are pure talent-development coaches. Weis and Crennel were extraordinary hires as coordinators. Daboll isn't a great acquisition, but it's a good fit for the talent on this team.

It's not because he can't build a team. Few people deny that this team is as talented and as deep everywhere as all but something like five or six teams in the league (QB excepted), maybe fewer.

So why?

Because of the quarterback position? Pioli doesn't care about the QB position, right?

Riiiight.

It's not exactly a high bar to clear, but Quinn and Stanzi provide us the best QB depth this team has. We had the choice between Cassel and Sanchez, and made the right choice. We passed on Dalton -- few people could blame us for that, in hindsight a true mistake.

But we all know the Cassel yarn is unraveling. That's the point of my question -- what happens if we give Pioli 10 years?

Letting Orton slide, whiffing on Manning, all the frustration from fans and the media...

Cassel's got a year left, probably. He's got a max of what, three years left? At the absolute extreme?

What do you expect then? You think Pioli's just going to hop from one discarded backup to the next? To another stopgap option and hope to coast until he gets fired?

This is the best this team has been in a long time. Add a good QB to the mix, and this team is knocking on Super Bowl doors for a decade.

Why do you want to walk away from that?

Why do you want to gamble on god knows what the next GM might be like?

There's no chance the next GM is a better draft or a guy who's going to be far more likely to burn millions on free agents that don't pan out.

There's no chance the next GM puts a better balance on the field. And may not hire coaches who value development as much as Pioli does.

I'm a really big fan of Pioli.

I agree, he needs to pull his head out of his ass on QB. But he did the right thing, he picked his guy there and gave him every chance.

/purehate

pioli gets credit for hiring a HC he had to fire mid-season?


hilarious

The median age of your average CP poster=Old & cranky

I'm still good with Pioli.

:clap:

Cassell will prove pioli a true genius

And there you have it.




Pioli has done a good job with everything but QB, HC, and OC.


None of those positions are important, though. 2000 Balitmore Ravens FTW!

Cassel.

It's not that Pioli doesn't care about the QB position, it's that he has no idea about how to evaluate it.

Pioli has been here 3 years, and we've won 0 playoff games. All signs point to year 4 being a continuation of that pattern. Not really seeing what's to like about the Pioli era so far.

I don't hate the guy like a lot of people here. But bottom
Line he's failed to make the playoff in 2 out of 3 years here and when they did they failed to show up.

For comparison, By year 3 and 4 of Carl and Marty they had made the playoffs 3 times and won a few playoff games.

A few playoff games, huh?

Yea I guess 1 in 91. 93 would have been their 5th season. Sorry

I don't fault him too much for that. I'd rather him fire Haley then, than wait until the end of the season to do it when they had already decided he was going to be gone.

I just wish Pioli was as decisive about Cassel. It's like every other person on the team is expendable except him. It's never his fault for anything!

we've accomplished nothing

we hired and fired a HC mid-season because the HC and GM turned the franchise into a Telenovela which was the laughing stock of the league

we've wasted 4 years on a joke of a QB who the GM hand picked and insists is a franchise QB

we have nothing on the roster worth a shit at the QB position

we had palko as a backup QB last year, because of the GM

we're on our 3rd OC in 4 years

we hired a 2nd HC whose previous experience as HC was a failure

we've been rebuilding since 2008

we have no proven QB or HC

i'll suck his cock when it is warranted

he hired Haley

he's responsible for it....he chose the guy who later became a dumpster fire

there's no excusing it away

This team was one of the worst in the league when Pioli got here. I mean they were hideous. This is the year I expect them to break out. No excuses. No whining about the line, no pissing about strength of schedule, nothing. Do it, or get the **** out. I'm pretty good with that.

Pioli has had this team finish in last place 2 out of 3 years.



End of conversation.

THe Palko fiasco was densecitily mind bottling

Shiiiit....dat fool's still my *AFRICAN AMERICAN CHUM*.

this sounds good with me as well.

I'd really rather not...

Deepest, most talented team they've had in the 13 years I've followed the team. And it's not even close.

Unfortunately they're still short at the one really important spot.

I doubt Clark sees it this way. I think the only unforgivable sin as a GM is to refuse to admit to a mistake. They hired Haley for a reason and when he was no longer able to deliver on his potential he was gone. Some people here on CP hate that we hired Romeo as HC, and even more seemed to hate the idea of us bringing in Fisher. Yet when we take a chance on an unproven HC we also hate it? So what is Pioli supposed to do? Should he be fired because his first HC selection was a failure?

I don't advocate playing it safe all of the time when it comes to selecting personnel, and let's face it KC is not the first choice for anyone when it comes to attracting top guys. Pioli has to roll the dice and take the chance. I'll be tired of Pioli when he stops taking chances to make us a great team. He's on thin ice with the Cassel situation, but I don't hate him for picking Haley.

I agree with everything you said in the OP about Pioli. He deserves credit for all those things.

In general, I think he's doing a pretty okay job. It certainly could be ****ing worse.

I do think you're giving him too easy of a pass on the QB issue though. There's no other way to describe that other than cronyism. Pioli claims he's not married to Cassel. Bull ****ing shit. Not being married to a traded QB looks like Arizona with Kolb. Or what Washington did with Beck. Seattle with Tarvaris Jackson. All those guys had potential, and were given two seasons to try to make it in the NFL. All of them failed, and we will see if Kolb can right his ship. Based on what I and the Cards franchise has seen, I'll bet he doesn't. The fact that it's been 3 years and Cassel is not only still challenging for the starting spot, but he's been GIVEN the damn thing. What was it Pioli said about competition at all spots? That's a bold flat ****ing lie he told to the franchise just because he has some kind of weird Patriot mancrush on a QB who sucks. And it's embarrassing. He should get flayed alive for that instead of letting it slide as a "Well what was he supposed to do QBs don't grow on trees!"

I'm not all that angry about the Crennel hire. I'm willing to give Romeo a shot. I'll give Pioli props for firing Haley. Daboll is... meh, whatever. It's clear that no coach really wants to play for Scott except for people in his circle. If we had to pick SOMEone from within that circle to be our head coach, I guess Crennel is one of the better options. But this season means high ****ing expectations. No more 8-8s or 9-7s being counted as successful. We either start winning some playoff games, or you blow up this ****ing mess and start over again with a new GM.

Since that Babb article Pioli has the reputation of being an asshole around the league. And not the good kind, either. The bad kind. He probably had that reputation before, but now it seems to follow him wherever he goes. And that's fine if we're winning. If we're not, then he's a ****ing goat.

He's okay right now. He gets one more year from me before I become as violent about firing him as GoChiefs gets.

he's responsible for failing in his first HC hire....it's a real simple point to grasp

he's now on HC #2..we'll see what happens

he's responsible for failing in his first selection of a QB

these don't require long winded rationalizations...

I can handle giving Pioli extra time depending on how he handles the Cassel situation this year. Right now, he seems to be blind to the fact that Cassel shows nothing of the elite form we need. If that's just a media ruse, fine. If he really isn't willing to move on if Cassel has a bad season, then **** him. You can't spend 4 years trying out a QB that only leads us to losing records and a playoff blowout at home and keep your job. At least I don't think you should.

You guys are ****ing cherry picking things instead of looking at overall results.

The Chiefs are 21-27 since Pioli took over. That's all that matters.

I went outside for a run today and my dick got all sweaty.

I like cheese.

But we have a pro bowl QB.

All of the over/unders I've seen have KC around 8 wins. That's the realistic expectation in year 4.

But we won the division 1 out of 3 years.

Season 5 is when they won 2 playoff games.

Season 3 they beat the Raiders in a WC game.

Not only that, he's elite...

So we damn well better win a playoff game this year.

He's a football God.

Ok then, talking can does not approve of Pioli. Easy enough to grasp. No need to discuss further.

Which is an improvement over the 15-33 in the preceding three years (or 6-26 in the preceding 2).

That's stupid.

At least you could throw out the 2009 win loss record to keep things fair.

That 4-12 record wasn't due to his failings as the GM.

That makes it 17-13 and the arrow is pointing way up.

Berry
Moeaki
Charles
Winston
Boss
Hudson
Hillis

That's a group of upgrades over 2011s squad that should be able to give us a good chance at having our best year in awhile.

I have to agree with this. 2009 is a throw away year.

Damn, we've really sucked for a while now.

Hell, we have been rebuilding since 2006.

Clark Hunt thanks you for your season ticket money regardless, here's a free cloth to wear!

:thumb:

Again cherry picking. Basing a success off overall record is stupid?

2009: The year Pioli hired Todd Haley, traded for Cassel, and drafted Tyson Jackson. that draft was an overall F. that's on Pioli.

Billay must be auditioning for drafterbater...

After inheriting a team that went 15-33 and had the WORST two year span in TEAM HISTORY.

After inheriting the 2008 draft class one of the best in Chiefs franchise history he did NOTHING with the 2009 draft nor free agency. His free agent signings have been overall failures.

I'd say they've been rebuilding since 2001.

2005 was the end of the unbalanced teams. After that, we got consistently bad on both sides of the ball.

Thing is in 2004 that team had a chance to be real good but for whatever reason Carl thought it would be better to keep the same players on defense and hire Gunther Cunningham.

:spock: Carl was a great team president but horrible GM. He could handle the business side of things great but that was it. He was the king of mediocre.

Granted we are still less than mediocre but Pioli has been fine at everything sans HC and QB.

****. We really are screwed.

In 2009, we struggled mightily in the first half, but in the 2nd half we played much better. We won 3 of the 8 games and lost by a TD or less in 3 of the 5 losses.

Since midseason of 2009 to now, we are an even 20-20, and that's with all the injuries we had last year.

I think you'll find that Daboll will be a very good OC for this team. His play selection confused teams last year and still worked with Matt Moore at QB.

If Daboll can get the most out of a lesser talented QB in Miami, along with Weis being within an hour to help Cassel (he was at OTA's btw), I think we'll see a Cassel similar to the 2010 form.

The OL will be the key to the season. Last year our OL sucked and Cassel got ran over. Getting Winston was huge and Hudson looks like he will become an above average C from what I saw last year. Cassel looked good in 2010 when the OL gave him time and our coaching staff knows that better than anyone.

This team has to win 10 games this year, which there is no reason why they shouldn't (unless we get plagued with injuries like last year). Pioli knows this team has to go to the playoffs this year at the minimum.

Wiess is whispering in RACs ear about getting Quinn in there and you know it.

Casell goes to the pro bowl this year and that'll be two times in three years. I think qb situation is fine, nice work Scott.

:facepalm:

If Weis helps Castle he should be fired
He'll quit by years end anyway -nm

You are dedicated.

Maui Wowie Pioli Punch

This is a very big year for him and the team.

The Chiefs' offensive line is ten times better than the Giants' offensive line ... just saying.

Your QB is 100 times better though :(

The head coach of a division 1 football program is not going to have time to help out our brokedick QB.

And the rumors are that Charlie Weis gave up trying to fix our brokedick QB by midseason or earlier anyway.

And Cassel looked "good" agianst a weakass schedule, with defenses keying on Jamaal Charles.

He shit his pants against good teams, and has done so each and every time he has faced one of those.

Scott Pioli went the safe route.

He traded for someone he was familiar with rather than risking a draft bust at QB.

And sadly, that someone he was familiar with speaks to the fact that when it comes to QB play, he doesn't have a ****ing clue.

I was about to say, no ****ing way Weis spends 1 second focused on anything besides Kansas football. An otherwise thoughtful post was ruined by even the mention of something so silly.

cassel sucks, hunt is an idiot. pioli at least knows football and can put a few things together for a team. and I was pleased to see you (OP) describe the coaching selections based in talent focused development types, because the systems this team runs are unique to the parcells coaching tree and you have to teach those systems very fundamentally when first starting up with a team. haley, weis & crennel are all from that tree.

I never liked cassel, but was willing to give the dude a chance. but I knew from watching a pre season pats game years before that he is a baseball player masquerading as a QB. I felt he'd be good for the chiefs because he was sturdy that season he played for brady and he had 50 sacks but kept getting back up. the chiefs needed that badly, so it was a good choice back then and still, I think it has been good for the team to have a steady if not good QB. but, enough.

pioli should have replaced cassel last off season. that to me is gonna come back on him. but, we;ll see. maybe golden socal boy can pull it out for pioli. regardless, he'll get at least until the end of 2013 to put a team together.

Right, pioli is going to replace a qb immediately after a playoff appearance and a pro bowl. U guys need to lay off the crack.

Ozzie Newsome replaced a QB that won the SB the year immediatley following that SB.

17th ****ing alternate for the ProBowl.

Big ****ing deal.

And, dumbass, I embelished the 17th.

Your trolling is getting ****ing old.

Good for Ozzie ****ing newsome, that don't mean shit.

You're just old.

Oh btw, how many superbowls have the ravens won since they let dilfer walk?

Exactly, dumbass

LMAO

They replaced him with Grbac.

Should have kept Dilfer.

Yes, but they tried, and have continued to try.

That's all I ask.

Just ****ing try.

He inherited a team that did all the dirty work. Torn down to the foundation. That terrible stretch was the product of starting from scratch, something Peterson never allowed the the team to do.

And so far Pioli looks hell bent on taking after Peterson. Making safe moves, taking familiar QBs and coaches. The two biggest moves he made were Cassel and Haley, and they both failed.

What about in NE? Cassel beat some good teams there. And it sure looks like our running game is gonna help Cassel again.

And I would take Cassel over Sanchez anyday.

Sanchez had success early, but he had a damn good running game and an overall great team like Cassel has this year.

No, actually, the Patriots played a weak schedule against the AFC West and the NFC West in '08.

I understand your concerns, but, Pioli has faith in Matt Cassel. In the last few years, there has been some horrendous games and some good games. However, looking over Cassel's history, the bad seems to have outweighted the good.

After quarterback, the Chiefs it seems have the positions to winning in the NFL - Wide receivers, hybrid tight ends, strong running backs, defensive backs, and pass rushers. Now Cassel is coming off an injury - You have to win with the hand you're dealt.

This is Cassel's fourth season in Kansas City. If he's your franchise quarterback, he has to lead his team deeper into the playoffs - or it should be his last.

Pioli has to think of the now and two years from now. While defense still matters, it's a quarterbacks league.

Pioli has to bring back glory to the Chiefs ... and a Super Bowl trophy the fans deserve.

In closing, I certainly hope my opinions will not offend or upset anyone.

i have no idea what you are misspelling there
an **** cassel, we have a great defense, dercent O,
but no QB, tired of the kickers being the MVP on offense

This. Times a ****ing million.

Outside of QB, everyone on this board LOVES the team Pioli has built. Period. You can try to knock him by pointing out that many of our studs were already present when he arrived, but the fact that he has retained them, and at great value contract wise, is a testament to what he's done.

The MAJOR grip people have with Pioli are some of his more questionable moves. Mostly the signing or lack thereof of free agents, passing on guys in the draft, and letting guys walk in FA.

Thing is, I don't think you can really find a real bad decision up until this point.

People cried he passed on Sanchez, he was right.
Cried he passed on Clausen, he was right.
Cried he didn't sign A. Franklin and ignored NT altogether, he seemed to be right.
There are more, I know, but this is a good start.

As for choices he's made that we have yet to see the outcome?

Letting Carr walk.
Letting Gilberry walk.
Letting Orton walk.

I think he's right on the last two, and I think guys might be surprised on how the Chiefs fair on the Carr/Routt swap.

Factor in his ability to get something in trade for players who seemingly have no value, and his draft trade success and he has done a VERY good job.

With his track record on these decisions, whether they rubbed you the wrong way or not, it really does make you wonder if he had more to do with NE's ability to always come out on top when trading draft picks and players and FA movement than we give him credit for.

As for the QB situation. I REALLY think Pioli knows what he's doing. I'm not a fanboy, in fact, I've been very critical at times, but he just seems to be right more often than not. For instance, he has been chastised for ignoring NT for so long, but the huge splashes and draft passes don't seem to have been a big deal. There certainly weren't any guys we completely missed out on. If Poe turns out, I will applaud his decision to wait until the time is right.

Same goes for the QB position. Either he TRULY believes Stanzi is the guy, and needs some seasoning before being tossed into a hot pan, or he doesn't think he's come across the right guy yet.(Luck and RG3 excluded, and you can make an argument that they missed on Dalton)

If they go with a top QB in next years draft, and he turns out, it'll be further proof he knows what he's doing. Proof that just like his patience with NT, he's making fine wine, while everyone else wants to pop the cork on a $5 bottle of half fermented grape juice.