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O.city 04-13-2014 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10559704)
And I think that Moncrief goes above Beckham with those non-limiters as Beckham does Cooks.

Those limiters being size, arm length, verticality, speed, blocking ability, etc.

All three are exceptionally solid WR prospects, run solid routes, do the little things, but when you consider that:

Cooks: 5'10", 189 lbs., 30 3/4" arms, 9 5/8" hands, 4.33 40, 36.0" vert, 120" broad
Beckham: 5'11", 195 lbs., 32 3/4" arms, 10" hands, 4.43 40, 38.5" vert, 122" broad
Moncrief: 6'2 1/2", 221 lbs., 32 3/8" arms, 9 1/8" hands, 4.40 40, 39.5" vert, 132" broad

Beckham is bigger than Cooks with better explosiveness, Moncrief is bigger than Beckham with more explosiveness.

All three run great routes. All three block well. All three jet off the line.

What's the difference? What's the "limitations" on one versus the other?

All things being relatively equal, I take the guy who's 6'2 1/2", 221 lbs., versus the 5'10", 189 lb. guy because he's going to be able to be more physical, take more punishment, be more effective in blocking, etc.

Moncrief doesn't have near the hands or catching ability of those two though. He seems to be more of a body catcher.

The Franchise 04-13-2014 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 10559713)
He struggled against it at times though.

So then I guess we should be worried about Beckham because he's straight disappeared in games before.

Nightfyre 04-13-2014 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 10559716)
Moncrief doesn't have near the hands or catching ability of those two though. He seems to be more of a body catcher.

That's coachable, though. If he can be coached to attack the ball at the highest point with two hands, he is going to be one of the best receivers in the league.

O.city 04-13-2014 01:47 PM

What's with being so emotional about it?

O.city 04-13-2014 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 10559744)
That's coachable, though. If he can be coached to attack the ball at the highest point with two hands, he is going to be one of the best receivers in the league.

I don't know if it is. Seems more of an instinctual thing. Kind of like with Bowe.

The Franchise 04-13-2014 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 10559754)
What's with being so emotional about it?

This directed at me?

It's not emotion. It's a discussion.

Easy 6 04-13-2014 01:50 PM

No offense meant to you or anyone else who posts or makes mocks, we gotta have SOMETHING to talk about during these football doldrums... but I'm just flat SICK of seeing them at this point, lets get the real one underway pronto.

RealSNR 04-13-2014 01:52 PM

Honestly, I'd rather have Cooks or Beckham over Mike Evans.

O.city 04-13-2014 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 10559736)
So then I guess we should be worried about Beckham because he's straight disappeared in games before.

Depends.

You would want to know why he disappeared. Was he just not getting balls his way? Was he not getting open?

O.city 04-13-2014 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 10559778)
Honestly, I'd rather have Cooks or Beckham over Mike Evans.

In this type of offense, I agree.

However puttin Evans opposite say Megatron? Sign me up

RealSNR 04-13-2014 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott free (Post 10559766)
No offense meant to you or anyone else who posts or makes mocks, we gotta have SOMETHING to talk about during these football doldrums... but I'm just flat SICK of seeing them at this point, lets get the real one underway pronto.

Goodell took your request under consideration and decided to delay the draft a full 2 weeks later.

Ragged Robin 04-13-2014 01:57 PM

Moncrief's small baby hands are cause for concern. Michael Crabtree has a similar hand size and was plagued with drops in his first couple seasons..

O.city 04-13-2014 01:59 PM

Maybe trade down into the 2nd, get an extra 3rd, take Moncrief?

Saccopoo 04-13-2014 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 10559757)
I don't know if it is. Seems more of an instinctual thing. Kind of like with Bowe.

No, running a 4.40 40 at 6' 2 1/2", 221 lbs., with a 40" vertical is the gift.

Teaching a guy to use his hands a bit better is repetition. Like a golf swing, it's just how he learned. That's correctable.

I do agree that Beckham has some of the finest hands I've ever seen at that level. Highpoints the ball as well as anyone and his catch radius with those arms is amazing.

However, the combination of size to speed to vertical that Moncrief has is ridiculous. And it's not Baldwin size/speed/vertical. Moncrief's version is usable and translates to the football field.

The guy knows when to shorten or lengthen his stride to maximize the speed he needs. Absolutely jets off the line where guys like Baldwin and our current receiver Hemingway need a little bit of runway to get up to speed. (It's like an F-16 versus a C-130 getting to 350 mph. Both can get there, but one just does it a hell of a lot faster.)

Also, the one thing is that with an accurate QB like Alex Smith, the highpointing issue isn't as much of an issue versus getting off the line, getting into your breaks and hitting your spot. A less accurate QB needs a guy like Beckham to be able to go get the ball and make sure that it's in his hands. (Think Stafford versus Smith.) Smith and Reid's offense needs a guy to be at a spot and the ability to separate once the ball and the receiver are together. It's what held back this offense initially and what the potential was when we saw Avery actually hold onto a ball.

I love Beckham, but I'm convinced he won't be there at #23 at this point. The next guy I'd take is Moncrief, and I do like Moncrief's ability to break free and turn upfield. I don't think that there is a guy in this draft that is more capable in that regard than Moncrief other than Watkins.

RealSNR 04-13-2014 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 10559786)
In this type of offense, I agree.

However puttin Evans opposite say Megatron? Sign me up

Putting Cooks opposite Megatron?

The idea is you stretch out the capabilities of the other team's defensive backfield depth. Different types of players that have different skill sets will generate those mismatches more efficiently.

I just can't get past how Evans played with a crackhead QB who runs around for 7 or 8 seconds before getting rid of the ball.


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