I fought this same battle when people were calling herm the worst coach of all time. And literally meant it. And got labeled a ball washer when I called him an average coach at best who inherited a terrible roster.

I've acknowledged Haley was a flawed coach. And areas where he needed major improvement. I am in the middle on Haley, but am painted as a ball washer because i have to fight against people who don't give even 1% credit to him for any kind of success.

You're painted as a ball washer because you often exaggerate to make a point, while concurrently questioning others' credibility. Not surprisingly, this pisses people off.

Haley was fine as long as weis was here to hold his hand and show him what to do.

No, Weis gave up on Cassel, and it was Haley who got the most out of the player. But Haley hated Cassel, and the former caused the coach to fail, but not before showing him how to woo a waitress at 31 Flavors.

I thought it was arbys

:clap:

I exaggerated on a point, was called out on it, and owned up to it. Let's face it, hating Haley is a popular position. And I'm one of the only ones calling people out when they exaggerate the other side.

You said Haley didn't improve anyone. You're quick to credit Weis for 2010 success, and not mention that maybe Weis may have had a difficult time winning without Charles too. I continue to hear the ridiculous Tyler Palko argument. And actually claiming that Albert is no better than he was as a rookie is just mind-boggling. I'm sorry, but when you're so hell bent on discrediting a guy that you find every way to pass credit to someone else, that's exactly the mentality CP too often has. And it's the same dumb shit that made people criticize Herm even for personnel decisions stupidly made by Carl Peterson.

Haley is gone. The team continued to suck. Let's stop the pretense that the team was bad because of Haley. He certainly didn't help himself in his approach to the start of last season. He certainly didn't get along with Pioli or Cassel or really too many people. This year's team has been an embarrassment from day one. Haley didn't do that. Pioli and Crennel did.

Nobody said the team was bad because of Haley.

I accept your apology for criticizing my credibility with respect to Albert.

Here's exactly what I said about Haley:

Stop attributing absolutes to me.

I've debated you enough to know that your statement is more consistent with how you think. But it's not being backed by what you're saying in this thread. Because what I'm hearing you say is that he didn't ruin everything, but he certainly didn't help anything. Every time I've pointed out some level of success during his time, you credited it to someone else.

And that's where I'm pushing back. Sorry if I'm taking it out on you, but it's the same shit I fought during the Herm era. 4 years later, people are realizing that I was right. For the record... again, I do not know if Haley was a great coach. But I believed he showed enough upside and wasn't given a fair shake to prove what he could have done in the right environment. And when I say "right environment" I'm talking about an environment that NO quality coach would want to work under.