Did you over-react to the work of Casshole?
 

Against Seattle and Arizona?

From reading this board it sounds like Cassell just won the MVP trophy, but when I look at his stats for the last 2 football games this is what I find:

Denver: 17-31 196 1-0
St Louis: 15-29 184 1-1

That's barely 50% completion percentage against 2 shitty football teams WITH an outstanding running game behind him.

When I look at his record I don't think he's won a football game when he didn't get at least 140 rushing yards to support him.

The fact is Seattle and Arizona can make anybody look good. Hell, Alex Smith went for ~300 yds and 3 TDs last week vs Seattle.

At some point Casshole's gonna have to prove he can win a football game by himself without much of a running game against a good defense playing coverage. Opposing teams routinely sell out on the run when they face us. When you're only completing ~50% of your passes vs the kind of coverage he's been getting I think there are legitimate questions whether he's capable of doing that.

"But casshole is so tough and he's become a leader blah blah blah". ****ing trent dilfer was tough and a leader too. Doesn't make him a good QB. Hell, Tim Tebow's tough and a leader. Doesn't make him an NFL player.

Flame away.

Dude HELLOOO!! Peter King says he's in the running for MVP. Never question the KING!

Oh, there's no need to flame... This post is gay enough as it is.

While its true that Cassel still has a lot to prove, I believe that he has come a long way as a QB. One thing that you can't measure is his leadership. He has really stepped up in that regard this season. He is definitely maturing.

check out the drops

After today I'm no longer a doubter.

He's still Casshole, because he is, but to come back and play perhaps his best game all year?

I don't mean numbers. **** numbers. He did have one bad overthrow and the IG penalty was ****ed, but for the most part he was on the mark and poised.

I also liked the run audible for huge gain....(OMG, the QB can audible again!?!!?)

If you really want a true measure of how good a player is just ask people that have to compete against him.

Do you think coaches, players, (and even fans) in our division fear Matt Cassell??

I've heard Norv talk about Cassell and this offense and there was no question he hopes KC keeps Cassell as long as possible.

1/2 way through the season I didn't see $3it to make me think he'd make a Green-like turn around.

Well, in only year two, with MUCH less starting experience and a much worse offensive line, Casshole put up better numbers than Green.

I shouldn't say that I do believe but the last 5 or 6 games he's given us reason to believe...

Is he related to this guy?

http://adamcarolla.com/SHBlog/wp-con...am-cassell.jpg

I hope SD keeps Norv for a long long time.

Stats are for losers, but people are definitely eating too much homer cheese.

This was all prophesied by Hamas.

Props on the thread, I can't do it alone.

Anyone else get a kick out of fans that have so much invested into hating their own teams players?

Dude if you can't see the improvement in Cassel from the beginning of this year till now, you seriously need to stop watching football. He may improve more he may become Tom Brady lite, he might totally flame out, but give the guy props he's making huge strides.

Link.

They are going to be right no matter how many times they have to move the goalposts.

A solid run game makes a QB's job easier?

You don't say....

No $3it.

This is one of those deals where stats don't tell the whole story.

Drops aside in the Rams game ... what I've seen over the last several weeks include Cassel changing plays at the line of scrimmage, going through reads, having good pocket awareness, stepping into his throws, making key plays, consistently making good throws, not enduring long stretches of inaccuracy or dumbassery -- stuff he wasn't doing last year or the first half of this year. And then there are intangible things like showing fire, leadership, throwing blocks, etc.

You look at his QB ratings from earlier in the season and you see some nice numbers, but I remember him in some of those games having long stretches where he was playing poorly, then he'd finally find his groove and do well. It was the inconsistency that was his biggest obstacle. To me, since the 2nd half of the @Denver game, he has been consistently above average.

Thank you for this post. I laughed my ass off. ROFLROFL

If Cassel plays the last two games like he did at St L and against Denver he will finish with 3000 yards and TD to INT ratio of 5:1. I don't understand the hate. Because it's not always pretty?

The way he is stepping up in the pocket is huge, IMO. It wasn't that long ago that he would run out to the side when he got pressure, which reduced his throwing options or resulted in sacks.

I wouldn't say it's hate. We all (or at least most of us) really appreciate his work and we are really glad that he's stepped up. We just realize that, while good, Cassel is not the kind of QB that can pretty much win a game single handedly with minimal contribution elsewhere.

I don't want a TV friendly QB, fantasy QB, or probowl/fan favorite QB.

I want a franchise QB.

I think this team is bringing him along the right way and after his last 5 weeks I finally believe there's reason for hope long term.




(I would still sign a decent vet/prospect to back him up though...)

Serious question for all the Cassel homers: What will it take for you to concede that he's not the guy?

My personal opinion is the guys ceiling just isn't high enough. He's improved but he's never played anywhere close to what he's paid and without the running game his stats would be about half of what they are. I can see this team getting back to Marty era chiefs with that type of QB with a solid defense. But you've seen that movie before, and you know how it ends.

I hate to break it to you, but those QB's don't exist in reality. It's a team sport.

How about that link.

Is that a requirement for a Chiefs QB? If so then we have only had one QB here that would be acceptable. This is arbritary and completely stupid standard to apply to any player.

Why not apply it to Charles or Flowers? Charles needs to score a TD on every play maybe 2, You can't get caught from behind and then whine you had cramps. What was it your time of the month? Pussy.

Thats what fans should say about Charles if they are going to force Cassel to live up to HOF standards before they can say, well he's OK.

1) He will never play up to his contract. Period.

2) He's progressing faster and with less/comparable WR help to what Green had his 2nd year.

3) It's not about having the best QB, it's about having the best team.

4) WE ARE CURRENTLY THE 3RD BEST ****ING TEAM IN THE AFC!1!!!!!!

Well I know a QB can't LITERALLY win a game by himself. :rolleyes:

Guys like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning (in previous seasons) pretty much can.


For the record, once again before I get attacked, I LIKE CASSEL AND I'M GLAD HE'S DOING WELL.

then take an f'ing hike and go somewhere else.
He is here and your constant bitching and hating isn't going to get you anywhere.......really getting old.

When he stops improving or showing heart.

yes, they can throw it and catch it all by themselves...

Defense never played a role with all of Brady's success. And, Manning does really well with a troubled OL; he loves having to move around.

You are driving in the dark there B. These aren't Cassel homers at all. We are all Chiefs Homers, or in my eyes "Real Chiefs Fans", something that you cannot claim, nor your buddy GoatCheese. You claim to only being realistic, well in reality KC in the second year of Haley and the first year of a new OC/DC combination the Chiefs are not only winning games but they are leading their division after being picked to be last. The QB has gotten better every game he's played in. Cassel may not be the Chiefs longest tenured QB but he is good and will continue to be seen as good by adding the tools needed to support the team.

I honestly doubt that you would consider Cassel a success if he won 3 SB's in a row. I know GoatCheese would probably have to go to a half-way house to be put on a safety watch if that were to happen.

It is strange isn't it? If Cassel haters (and Lord knows I was one of them) can't see that he has really stepped up his play and won over his teammates as the leader they are willing to battle for, then they have some sort of deep hatred for him and/or this football team that makes them blind to it. What's the point of being a "fan" if you can't support the team and it's players for what they are right now.

Tom, you're incredible. I run a facebook page with 550 Chiefs fan subscribers. To call me anything less than a die hard, sickeningly obsessed fan is hilarious.

I think that's the point. They aren't Chiefs fans, they are just trolls that get off on shitting on success.

Clayton, if you were a Chiefs fan you wouldn't be writing the crap you are writing. You 'd be expressing the positives because this team has turned from a POS (Herman's doing) into a contender. You aren't being realistic because if you were you would see growth. You are no better than whitlock and the Jeff George debacle.

Quaterbacks like Manning and Brady don't come along very often. They are Hall of Fame QBs and to expect that from Cassel or from any QB the Chiefs might obtain is setting the bar unrealistically high.

An NFL team is limited by what their QB can do. They're not really limited by their RB. Can you see Casshole winning a superbowl? If not he's not the guy. Look around the NFL at opposing teams. How many of them have a guy at QB you can see winning a superbowl with now or in the future. These are the guys I'd have on the list right now:

Rivers, Brees, Flacco, Romo, McNabb, Manning, Vick, Manning, Schaub, Rogers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Cutler

And these guys could potentially be on it one day:

Bradford, Stafford, Freeman, V. Young, McCoy, Matt Flynn

You might not agree with all those but if everbody put together there own list in general you'd have about half the NFL with top Qbs.

I see Casshole as a David Garrard type of Qb. Decent player but can you see Garrard winning a Superbowl? I can't. The main issue I have is I see this team going 3-4 years with Casshole before finally deciding he's not good enough and then having to spend another several years looking for someone who is. I see potential in guys like Freeman and even Colt McCoy that exceed Casshole's ceiling.

A few years ago people were perpetually bitching that we haven't drafted and developed a QB since Dawson. Well, we still haven't.

Think about what you would do if you were named GM of the Jacksonville Jaguars. Garrard is a good player but sooner or later you know you have to upgrade, don't you?

I use the example of Garrard because it eliminates emotional involvement, but it's the same situation here. I'd rather go ahead and deal with that problem ahead of time. If I were Pioli I wouldn't sit on our QB situation and I wouldn't pass on a guy who I think can be a future upgrade. The problem is I don't trust Pioli to do that and I'm afriad it'll hurt us in the future. Cassel has been the most coddled QB in NFL history and has already proven he can't exist with legit competition. After Brady's injury in New England the front office wouldn't bring in any veterans because they didn't want to rattle the Casshole. When Pioli got here he promptly ran Thigpen out of town likely because he didn't want Casshole to be under any pressure to perform. .

Your list proves you are a grass is always greener kind of guy.

lol ... almost a direct correlation between the increase of Cassel's play and the decrease of the number of posts by some people.

don't worry though, his next bad game will bring an explosion of cackling chickens.

not only is he playing up to his contract right now...but he's exceeding it.

Seriously...enough with the contract. He's being paid like a slightly above average starter and right now he's playing like an above average starter.

So lets just get over his contract.

What's your list look like?

My point was that approximately half the NFL has franchise QBs or guys with the tools to develop into them. If you're not on that list you're not a serious contender and the only way to be a serious contender is to get on that list. Unfortunately, I haven't seen enough out of Cassell to put him on that list, and I don't think anyone who's truly being objective about things really has either.

I think you and gifdouche are just building up doom threads, trying to set up for an "I told you so" moment once the end comes.

Nobody thinks this team will go to the super bowl, we all expect the season to end with a loss to someone.

I guess if you keep predicting the same thing forever, you will be right eventually. I expect we will see own-thread bumping and other bloviating that no one cares about.

Kind of sad.

Just more proof that people will keep reaching for whatever they can to knock him down.

Plays a solid game after an operation just 2 and a half weeks later, team has a 9-4 record of games he's started, 25:5 TD/INT ratio, yet the "we want to be right crowd" keeps posting this nonsense.

I hated Cassel last year, hated him early this year, but he's won me over by playing good football. I'm sorry that some of you so desperately want to be right instead of enjoying some of the best football the Chiefs have played in over 6 years.

Spot on.

100% spot on.

B_Ambuehl and GoChiefs are the 2 biggest "look at me, look at me" morons to grace the planet. The most important thing to them? Being able to bump threads to say "see, I called it".

B_Ambuehl also was on the "Will Svitek is the best huge thing for the Chiefs" kick so take everything he says with a titanic size grain of salt.

Montana didn't always put out spectacular stats for us either.

Look, point is, how does the guy PLAY?

**** numbers and rating, is he on target and making plays?

This week, damned straight. And he got cut on less than 2 weeks ago.

He's a gamer. He might not be Payed-a-ton or Brett Favor-me but he's got us winning.

And a couple of them still have some stuff to prove...

Rivers, Brees, Flacco, <strike>Romo</strike>, <strike>McNabb</strike>, Manning, <strike>Vick</strike>, Manning, Schaub, Rogers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, <strike>Cutler


</strike>

Well, to be fair, we certainly haven't seen enough to be sure that he can't make his way on to this list, either.

And this is all that matters. He's the QB of a 9-5 team that has to win 2 home games to win the division and host another home game.

The bar continually gets moved, and people want to throw around the franchise label for QBs like they grow on trees.

This. If you can't see how far this guy has come, you're credibility is shit.
Does he have a lot to prove, yeah, he does. Has he done as much as could be asked of him, or any QB for that matter, in the second half of the season so far? I'd say so. His biggest problems: footwork, poise, pocket awareness, and what looked to me to just be plain fear, have improved dramatically.
Quit crying like bitches, and get used to it. Matt Cassel is your QB.

Norv said what? When? Link? Doubt it. And we all pray that SD keeps Norv forever.

Alex smith threw for 300 yards against SEA? WoW. BFD. He plays in what looks like one of the worst divisions football in history, and can't crack the top 20 in QB rating.
Cassel is 5th BTW. It's really not much of a comparison.

Matt Cassel has played very well in the last few months. And I'm not just talking about his stats. He's looked decisive, his throws are significantly more accurate than earlier this year, his awareness in the pocket has increased 10-fold. I hope he continues this type of play because the crow I'm eating thus far is tasting quite good.

He plays like this for his career as a Chief, I'm perfectly happy with it. Anyone who says otherwise must think that Peyton Manning's and Tom Brady's are a dime-a-dozen. I can name 8 quarterbacks in this league that are definitively better than Matt Cassel right now. That's it.

I'll take that any day of the week.

Sure is. I'm loving this shit.

Just be patient. b is spreading his cheeks and reaching deep for the link. :D

I'd add Romo and Vick and take out Schaub, but that would still put Cassel at 11.

Statistics aside, name one thing Cassel didn't do in St. Louis that you think he should have done? 3 of his incompletions were inexcusable drops. One between Bowe's numbers, one that hit McCluster in the ****ing facemask, and one that Copper let doink off his hands even though he probably could have had a good 20-30 yard gain out of it. If those passes are completions, he hits 60-65% of his passes and probably gets over 220 yards.

He didn't just lead yesterday. He was the only source of offense. Our receivers killed 3 drives. The pass protection was shitty, but he did a terrific job of sliding around in the pocket to buy time. And the running game wasn't very good yesterday.

I get that he needs to beat big competition. I'm not totally sold on him yet. But to pass off not just small but major improvements in pocket awareness, throwing accuracy, ability to read defenses and recognize the blitz... If he plays consistently like he did in St. Louis, then yes, I am actually believing he could be a long-term answer.

Uprights keep moving. I was critical of Cassel because I wanted to see pocket presence, accuracy, reading multiple receivers, and the leadership presence to not give up when the chips are down. He's showed them all in spades the last month or so, to hell with the statistics or strength of schedule. That's why myself and plenty of others are changing our tune.

So now you guys are trying to compare the Casshole to Joe Montana??

Hahahahah

I really have seen it all.

Dude I've been here over 5 years and have a little over 1500 posts. Some of you ****ers post more in a day than I have in my career. If I was after popularity I certainly wouldn't be so anonymous. As for the Svitek thing, it was a tongue in cheek thing, which I said from day 1. People loved Rich Scanlon too, but nobody thought he was realistically a probowler. I liked Svitek because he was a big foreign goofball looking mother****er that loved to fight.

So Cassel does not have the tools to be a franchise QB? I guess you haven't seen much of his play through this season.

Still waiting on that link, unless you want to concede you just made it up.

Don't hold your breath, it's probably not forthcoming.

He probably got that link stuck in his zipper.

Norv Turner? Norv "f'ng" Turner? And not even a direct quote? That's the best you got? :rolleyes:

Yeppers. :thumb:

Well, it's too bad some people refuse to see both sides of the argument. It seems like with some of the Cassel homers, you either have to believe Cassel has, without a doubt, proven he's the QB this franchise can count on in the long run, or you're just a hater... even though there are some legit reasons to not completely buy in, like wanting to see if he can win in the playoffs.

OTOH, it does seem like some of the haters refuse to give any credit, which is ridiculous, too... he's obviously making progress. And with some concerns, like accuracy, does it really matter who he's playing against? He couldn't hit the ocean from the beach last year, had as many INTs as TDs, and at one point was getting sacked five times per game. Yeah, becoming competent doesn't mean he can win playoff games, but at least credit the progress and see there's more hope for the future than there was at this point last season.

(ftr, I did have serious doubts last season because of fundamental problems that didn't seem to go away even when he had decent protection and open receivers.... and while he's come a long way, I'm still going to wait and see what he can do in the next couple of games and if they make it to the playoffs (and even though this place will implode, one good or bad game in the playoffs doesn't mean much in the big picture... consistency is the key to everything he does (and the team, coaches, etc.)))

As I said, some of these are even iffy, I haven't watched a lot of Schuab but he seems to generally have decent stats. Vick is going to have to prove it for more than a year. Romo, the playoff choke master, yeah, noooo thanks.

Nailed it

If B AZZ can't supply a link he should be BANNED

Not to pile on, but I'd really like to see it for myself where Turner said he hopes KC keeps Cassel...so link it up and please do so quickly, if you don't mind.

link?

Cassel is:

#5 in the NFL in QB rating
#7 in TD passes
#3 in TD%
#2 in fewest INTs
#2 in INT%
#9 in Sack%
#7 in fewest sacks (players ahead of him include Romo and Kerry Collins, who've played fewer games)

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...10/leaders.htm

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...D&d-447263-n=1


That's a top 10 QB performance in 2010. All the bitching in the world isn't going to change that.

And it should.

Only for reasons of comparison (we have the old NE coaches and GM.)
The first WHOLE year Brady started they ran first and played good defense.

They won ugly games.

They DID NOT put up any significant rushing or passing stats.

They WON A SUPER BOWL.

As each year went by they seemed to move the slider more from defense to offense and kept changing their game.

SHOCKER!

Managed to keep winning jewelry.

My point would be that the first 1/4 year and then whole season Brady was completely leashed. They ran the ball and completely depended on the defense.

Only later did Brady become Brady (when he had that confidence that he KNEW HE didn't have to make it happen.)

Years later he learned he COULD make it happen.

Smart coaching.

They let him figure that out in time, all on his own...

The link is somewhere on the Chargers site amongst thousands of others. I'm not gonna go digging for it. He didn't say directly that Cassell sux he was asked about Cassel and was PC about it but it was obvious he didn't fear him at all, as he shouldn't given Casshole's prior performances against the Chargers:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...1&postcount=36

Don't believe me go post a poll on any chargers forum and ask if people fear Cassel. Ask Buck what he thinks.

So, basically, you were just making shit up.

doesnt matter they will find reasons why he's not a top ten QB. **** stats as long as they dont help the haters. except milkman. hes the only guy who actually doesnt use stats.

same thing as when he was with the pats and was rated top ten.

I'd say for the record, I didn't like the trade for him, but I was also willing to give him a chance. I think he has moved his way up to the upper part of the tier 2 QB's. I'm impressed what the coaches have done to help him improve.

oh so Buck and Norv Turner are the same person?