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-   -   Football Peter King: You have to go back to 1997 to find a draft like this one (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=270181)

RealSNR 02-19-2013 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony77 (Post 9415418)
You are correct.

Eat cum, asshole

jAZ 02-19-2013 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9415406)
I will agree with you 100% after the Chiefs draft a QB at #1 overall. That's when hardcore professional scouting trumps my hobby.

The issue of taking a QB isn't a matter of scouting. It's a matter of philosophy and principle.

I didn't see you giving John McCain or Mitt Romney a pass. I'm pretty sure you were just fine with saying, "McCain is no different than Bush, which hasn't done very well for the country." You didn't know that. You didn't know what McCain or Romney would be all about and yet you still assumed they would employ the same strategy that you railed against for the last 8 years.

The Chiefs are faced with doing what we've been doing for the past 30 years, not 8. We have the option of going with the strategy that got us into this mess, or we can switch up the strategy and go with something completely different for a bit, and see if that works.

Sorry to inject political dialogue into the main Lounge, but if that's all you understand, then that's the language I'll have to talk.

FYI, I haven't posted 50 times in DC in in the last 3 years.

As for scouting, you are just wrong. It's *possible* that the difference between the top 5 QB's is marginal. And if you grade all of them as 2nd round players, then you are a terrible fool if you take one of them over an alternative player who you rate as the #1 overall player when you could get your #4 and #5 QB with your second pick.

Scouting that matters deeply.

DJ's left nut 02-19-2013 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoWalrus (Post 9415416)
Yeah, what about Josh Freeman? ***** failed, hardcore. If he had any idea that Matt Cassel was shitty, he would NEVER have given him 60m.

You are such a shitty homer.

And "looking back" at least Mark Sanchez won playoff games. Matt never came close.

Wrong again, homer.

I'm not convinced that Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco aren't perfect analogs of each other. Both are guys that struggle with short/intermediate accuracy and have, on occasion, lost their teams. They're both guys that will spend large chunks of the season looking like boiled ass.

But they're both guys that play pretty well in the playoffs. Flacco's always been surrounded by better players and he's probably a little bit better than Sanchez, but it's not night and day. Flacco also hasn't had the pressure of the NY media absolutely hounding him; he's not the ESPN mark that Sanchez has been.

Had the Ravens traded Joe Flacco for the rights to Mark Sanchez, I'm pretty sure both franchises fates would've been exactly the same over the last 4 seasons as they have been in the real world.

Bowser 02-19-2013 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jAZ (Post 9415174)
You don't make up for past failures by over-reacting today.

I have no idea if Geno Smith is the right QB or not. And neither do the 32 GM's out there today. And neither do the draft talking heads here or in the media.

If the facts of the draft say that no QB is graded in the top 15 players, and you have the option to make a trade for an NFL-experienced QB that you think is worth the pick you'll be trading, you DON'T cave to pressure from fans who are essentially disappointed that this draft class doesn't match our position of need and they long to be like the cool kids who always seem to get the big splash on draft day.

If Reid and Dorsey think that Alex Smith for a #33 or #65 is a better bet for their plans than Geno Smith for the #1, then take Alex Smith. And the Cassel experience should have zero impact on that decision. And fans desire for selecting a #1 overall QB should have none.

Nothing.

So based on the bolded, we shouldn't take a chance on a quarterback in the first, in your opinion. We don't know if Joeckel is going to be worth a shit, either. Nor Star Loutelil(?), or Milliner, or Moore, or *insert name here*.

We should just miss our alotted time to pick every round becasue we just don't know if any of the guys we take will be any good. Just sit back and let the feeding frenzy commence every time we skip a pick.

You sound like 80% of the idiots that call into local radio talk shows in KC, jAZ. It really is like the fans of this team have been programmed to just play it safe and not take chances.

This team needs a quarterback, period. We NEED to have our OWN quarterback. We have now gone through two and a half full decades of trying to win with some other teams' castoffs, and what has it gotten us? Three playoff wins in twenty five years of trying it with "proven vets". If Joe ****ing Montana couldn't put us over the hump, what in the name of all that is holy would make you think Alex Smith can?

This team, right now, is BUILT for a Geno Smith. This kid can come in and make a difference, ESPECIALLY with Andy Reid guiding the way for him.

htismaqe 02-19-2013 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 9415395)
I remain hopeful that this is just a visceral reaction from you that's really just a back-alley defense of Geno Smith. Otherwise you're left with simply talking out your ass. There is ample evidence to suggest that Alex Smith can be a solid QB in this league.

It's not a back-alley defense of Geno Smith but it absolutely is a visceral reaction.

I've lived through Steve Deberg, Dave Krieg, Steve Bono, Elvis Grbac, and on and on all the way up to Cassel and Quinn.

The thought of bringing in ANOTHER cast-off from another team and hoping for the best just makes me want to puke.

You can sit here and make all the objective, stat-filled arguments you want. 25 years of Chiefs history tells me Alex Smith in KC is destined to fail.

jAZ 02-19-2013 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoWalrus (Post 9415416)
Yeah, what about Josh Freeman? ***** failed, hardcore. If he had any idea that Matt Cassel was shitty, he would NEVER have given him 60m.

You are such a shitty homer.

And "looking back" at least Mark Sanchez won playoff games. Matt never came close.

Wrong again, homer.

This is like saying 3-4 years from now Tyler Bray ended up being the best QB in the 2013 draft, therefore Dorsey is an idiot for choosing Alex Smith over Geno Smith.

jAZ 02-19-2013 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser (Post 9415432)
So based on the bolded, we shouldn't take a chance on a quarterback in the first, in your opinion. We don't know if Joeckel is going to be worth a shit, either. Nor Star Loutelil(?), or Milliner, or Moore, or *insert name here*.

We should just miss our alotted time to pick every round becasue we just don't know if any of the guys we take will be any good. Just sit back and let the feeding frenzy commence every time we skip a pick.

You sound like 80% of the idiots that call into local radio talk shows in KC, jAZ. It really is like the fans of this team have been programmed to just play it safe and not take chances.

This team needs a quarterback, period. We NEED to have our OWN quarterback. We have now gone through two and a half full decades of trying to win with some other teams' castoffs, and what has it gotten us? Three playoff wins in twenty five years of trying it with "proven vets". If Joe ****ing Montana couldn't put us over the hump, what in the name of all that is holy would make you think Alex Smith can?

This team, right now, is BUILT for a Geno Smith. This kid can come in and make a difference, ESPECIALLY with Andy Reid guiding the way for him.

This is a terrible post.

My move it to trust the professionals and not take myself too seriously.

But to stay on your point, I will admit that one flaw in my approach would emerge if the professionals thought it best to skip their pick entirely. I'll say now that I would stand corrected in that case.

mr. tegu 02-19-2013 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony77 (Post 9415412)
Smith only played 1 yr in the big 12

If you have a point feel free to make it. RG3 earned his draft spot based on his senior year, not the prior years. Geno should be held no different in that regard.

Hammock Parties 02-19-2013 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jAZ (Post 9415435)
This is like saying 3-4 years from now Tyler Bray ended up being the best QB in the 2013 draft, therefore Dorsey is an idiot for choosing Alex Smith over Geno Smith.

I don't care what it's "like saying."

Trading for Matt Cassel was, is, and always will be ****ing stupid.

Pioli did it for the same reasons he didn't re-sign Kyle Orton. He's a ****ing DUMB ASS.

RealSNR 02-19-2013 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jAZ (Post 9415425)
FYI, I haven't posted 50 times in DC in in the last 3 years.

As for scouting, you are just wrong. It's *possible* that the difference between the top 5 QB's is marginal. And if you grade all of them as 2nd round players, then you are a terrible fool if you take one of them over an alternative player who you rate as the #1 overall player when you could get your #4 and #5 QB with your second pick.

Scouting that matters deeply.

Cool. That doesn't change the fact that you're an informed person when it comes to politics. I also suspect you felt that way about the last two Republican candidates. The point is, if you're going to be more impulsive about picking the president than you are about picking your favorite team's QB, I don't know what to tell you. Again, I'm not saying that voting strategy isn't legit. It is absolutely a rational reason for voting that way. And if it applies to the goddamned president, it should apply to something measly like the Chiefs QB.

And here we go again. You're using "ifs" to lend credence to your argument that drafting a QB might not be the best thing. However, those ifs are very unlikely. There IS a first round QB in this draft. I believe there are multiple, in fact, as do many draft analysts. Secondly, it's one thing to have a #1 overall non-QB that you select with the top pick. It's quite another to be in this draft where there ISN'T THAT PLAYER AROUND.

And DON'T tell me that I don't know that. It's looking pretty ****ing grim right now. Even an explosion out of the combine likely won't change that.

If the top nonQB in this draft is worth a 10 or a 15 pick most years (which is the case except for the OTs) and the highest rated QB is a 20 or late 20, you take the goddamned QB. When people ask if you reached too hard, you say, "It was the best pick for the team."

Because guess what? IT WAS.

Bowser 02-19-2013 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jAZ (Post 9415441)
This is a terrible post.

My move it to trust the professionals and not take myself too seriously.

But to stay on your point, I will admit that one flaw in my approach would emerge if the professionals thought it best to skip their pick entirely. I'll say now that I would stand corrected in that case.

If your point is that you trust in Dorsey and Reid if they take another player than Geno, then I'm with you. I won't like it, but they will get the benefit of the doubt from me until they prove that they aren't worthy of that benefit.

If your point is that Geno looks to be too big of a risk to throw the first pick at, then my post is 100% accurate.

DJ's left nut 02-19-2013 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9415433)
It's not a back-alley defense of Geno Smith but it absolutely is a visceral reaction.

I've lived through Steve Deberg, Dave Krieg, Steve Bono, Elvis Grbac, and on and on all the way up to Cassel and Quinn.

The thought of bringing in ANOTHER cast-off from another team and hoping for the best just makes me want to puke.

You can sit here and make all the objective, stat-filled arguments you want. 25 years of Chiefs history tells me Alex Smith in KC is destined to fail.

Fair enough. But dammit, at some point we're going to roll 7s, I am firmly convinced of this.

Hammock Parties 02-19-2013 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jAZ (Post 9415441)
My move it to trust the professionals

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

The Professionals...like Herm, Carl, Pioli, Haley, Gunther, Muir, Daboll....TRUST THEM ALL!!!

htismaqe 02-19-2013 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 9415457)
Fair enough. But dammit, at some point we're going to roll 7s, I am firmly convinced of this.

Sorry, but I don't have 30 more years to wait. :D

patteeu 02-19-2013 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser (Post 9415432)
So based on the bolded, we shouldn't take a chance on a quarterback in the first, in your opinion. We don't know if Joeckel is going to be worth a shit, either. Nor Star Loutelil(?), or Milliner, or Moore, or *insert name here*.

We should just miss our alotted time to pick every round becasue we just don't know if any of the guys we take will be any good. Just sit back and let the feeding frenzy commence every time we skip a pick.

You sound like 80% of the idiots that call into local radio talk shows in KC, jAZ. It really is like the fans of this team have been programmed to just play it safe and not take chances.

This team needs a quarterback, period. We NEED to have our OWN quarterback. We have now gone through two and a half full decades of trying to win with some other teams' castoffs, and what has it gotten us? Three playoff wins in twenty five years of trying it with "proven vets". If Joe ****ing Montana couldn't put us over the hump, what in the name of all that is holy would make you think Alex Smith can?

This team, right now, is BUILT for a Geno Smith. This kid can come in and make a difference, ESPECIALLY with Andy Reid guiding the way for him.

The pro GENO-AT-ALL-COSTS crowd sure is logic challenged. Saying he doesn't know if Geno is the guy or not doesn't mean that Geno shouldn't be the pick. It also doesn't mean that jAZ thinks that he should know for sure about any particular player before that player becomes worthy of the 1st pick. Every post I read from Geno fanboys seems more facepalm-worthy than the last.


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