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-   -   Royals Royals have 5 Gold Glove Finalists (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=277924)

Canofbier 10-25-2013 09:30 AM

Royals have 5 Gold Glove Finalists
 
They are:

Salvador Perez
Lorenzo Cain
Alcides Escobar
Alex Gordon
Eric Hosmer

Which of them do you think has a shot to win?

Gordon's a lock at this point, if you ask me. Perez feels like a pretty sure bet as well, since I can't think of who else would be more deserving in the AL. Cain missed a big chunk of the year, and I don't think Escobar has been consistent enough to be #1. I'm honestly not sure about Hosmer.

Great Expectations 10-25-2013 09:31 AM

Cain and Perez should win. Alex probably will, escobar has an outside shot.

Mr. Laz 10-25-2013 09:32 AM

You would think that Gordon and Salvy would be locks but Salvy had a few mistakes late in the year that might cost him.

SPATCH 10-25-2013 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Expectations (Post 10122563)
Cain and Perez should win. Alex probably will, escobar has an outside shot.

Hmmmmm.

Don't think Cain will win.

Looking at the finalists, Perez and Gordon should be locks. I also like the chances of Hosmer beating out Loney and Chris Davis.

mr. tegu 10-25-2013 09:36 AM

Who else besides Hosmer at 1B? Looks like he is way better than the other two guys.

mr. tegu 10-25-2013 09:38 AM

If Cain could have played more games he would have been an absolute lock. Even as it is he has a really good chance.

BWillie 10-25-2013 09:45 AM

LOL @ Eric Hosmer getting Gold Glove consideration

Mr. Laz 10-25-2013 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 10122572)
Who else besides Hosmer at 1B? Looks like he is way better than the other two guys.

Hosmer has 8 errors

gblowfish 10-25-2013 09:48 AM

Gordon will win, he was great on assists. Salvy should win despite his occasional throwing errors. Cain had a great defensive year, but was out hurt too much.

Great Expectations 10-25-2013 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_spatula (Post 10122571)
Hmmmmm.

Don't think Cain will win.

Looking at the finalists, Perez and Gordon should be locks. I also like the chances of Hosmer beating out Loney and Chris Davis.

I don't think Cain will either, but I think he should.

Mr. Laz 10-25-2013 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Expectations (Post 10122602)
I don't think Cain will either, but I think he should.

he just didn't play enough games.

WhawhaWhat 10-25-2013 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 10122572)
Who else besides Hosmer at 1B? Looks like he is way better than the other two guys.

Chris Davis will end up winning.

KCUnited 10-25-2013 09:52 AM

I could see Cain winning and rupturing an oblique hoisting it up or something.

mr. tegu 10-25-2013 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 10122595)
Hosmer has 8 errors

6 for Davis and 7 for Loney.

mnchiefsguy 10-25-2013 10:07 AM

Gordon is a lock I would think. Salvy should win it as well.

'Hamas' Jenkins 10-25-2013 10:18 AM

Hosmer should not sniff a GG. He was -9.4 in runs saved. Gordon was barely above average at 1.6. Escobar and Perez were two of the top five defenders in the AL. If they don't get it they shouldn't have the awards.

CaliforniaChief 10-25-2013 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 10122651)
Hosmer should not sniff a GG. He was -9.4 in runs saved. Gordon was barely above average at 1.6. Escobar and Perez were two of the top five defenders in the AL. If they don't get it they shouldn't have the awards.

Stop meddling in our important business. We already won the World Series this year. Now go back to your "World Series" thread. :D

mr. tegu 10-25-2013 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 10122651)
Hosmer should not sniff a GG. He was -9.4 in runs saved. Gordon was barely above average at 1.6. Escobar and Perez were two of the top five defenders in the AL. If they don't get it they shouldn't have the awards.

Link? I see 3 at baseball-reference and fangraphs.

'Hamas' Jenkins 10-25-2013 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 10122681)
Link? I see 3 at baseball-reference and fangraphs.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...rs=0&sort=19,d

Mr. Laz 10-25-2013 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 10122651)
Hosmer should not sniff a GG. He was -9.4 in runs saved. Gordon was barely above average at 1.6. Escobar and Perez were two of the top five defenders in the AL. If they don't get it they shouldn't have the awards.

So actually being in the world series isn't enough.
having your own stinkbird thread isn't enough.
having your own world series stinkbird thread isn't enough.

You just have to come around and shit in our threads?

'Hamas' Jenkins 10-25-2013 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 10122689)
So actually being in the world series isn't enough.
having your own stinkbird thread isn't enough.
having your own world series stinkbird thread isn't enough.

You just have to come around and shit in our threads?

**** off, you butthurt bitch. I wasn't shitting on anything, just adding perspective to who among your finalists were the most likely to win and why.

mr. tegu 10-25-2013 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 10122687)

That is different than the simple DRS which has Hosmer at 3. How exactly it is different I don't know, though it seems to include some more advanced adjustments.

But on that stat, Davis is -13.5 and Loney is -5 so to point to that stat as something clearly against Hosmer compared to his competition doesn't really hold up. It seems to me across the board they are all pretty equal.

Prison Bitch 10-25-2013 10:53 AM

Perez is a no doubt, absolute lock.


I'm not sure on any of the others. Cain is probably the best CF but Trout's there so they may stick with just one CF. He's also hurt a lot which may impact it.

'Hamas' Jenkins 10-25-2013 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 10122700)
That is different than the simple DRS which has Hosmer at 3. How exactly it is different I don't know, though it seems to include some more advanced adjustments.

But on that stat, Davis is -13.5 and Loney is -5 so to point to that stat as something clearly against Hosmer compared to his competition doesn't really hold up. It seems to me across the board they are all pretty equal.

Fangraphs augments. They account for arm strength, double plays turned, range runs, and error runs with positional adjustments.

The guy who should actually win, IMO, is Trumbo. Davis qualifies as an atrocious defender, but that's never stopped GG in the past.

Here's their explanation:

This is where the upgrade was needed the most. Prior to this rollout, we listed “Fld” as our primary defensive rating on both the dashboard and the fielding section, which solely rated players relative to average at their specific positions, but that treats all positions as if they are equal in value, which is clearly not true. Pretty much every shortstop is a better defender than every first baseman, even the ones with negative ratings at SS compared to the guys with positive ratings at 1B. But, with the Fld metric, this wasn’t always obvious, and it led to people using a metric that rates players at their position as if that was their standing in the league overall.

By adding the positional adjustment into the fielding rating to create Defense, we’re now presenting a much better view of who the best defenders actually are. Catchers get a big boost here as well, as they have the largest positional adjustment of any spot on the field, and this better recognizes their contributions, even if they aren’t necessarily rated dramatically higher than other catchers. Just being a catcher has a lot of value, and this helps display that value more correctly.

There are some other ancillary benefits to displaying things in this matter as well. Since these are counting stats, playing time is explicitly included, so a player who has posted a .400 wOBA over 150 games will grade out better than a player who had the same .400 wOBA in only 100 games. Rate stats can be very useful, but when counting total value, you also want to give players credit for staying in the line-up every day. Now, instead of having to just cite wOBA or wRC+ and then adjust for both playing time and baserunning value, those are already baked into the Offense column.

This also helps level the playing field for guys who shift between positions. Utility players who spend parts of their season at multiple positions, or even regulars who bounce around between spots like Ben Zobrist, do not have their defensive performance easily described by a single UZR rating. If a guy plays five positions and has a +5 UZR, you don’t really know what that +5 is relative to. Now, with the fielding component added in, you know that the baseline is an average defender across all positions.


And, finally, if you don’t want to try to spend time talking about what a replacement level player is, this gives you an easy way to simply compare players relative to league average, a baseline that is easily understood without any explanation. Replacement level is an important concept, but there are times it is not necessary to add in those extra runs, and a comparison to average will do just fine. For those times, these metrics now make those citations easier.

You will find Off and Def — the shorthand labels for these numbers — in the Dashboard and Value sections of the player pages and the leaderboards, starting immediately. These will be added to the custom dashboard options in the near future. As always, a big thanks to site founder/owner/overlord David Appelman for his hard work, and we hope you find these two new numbers as useful as we do.

Nickel D 10-25-2013 10:56 AM

Sally ain't a-gonna win a GG this year. Remember? Everyone in the universe done seen him let the ball get by him and then disappear in that gosh-durn sign contraption behind home plate at the K...not just once, but the next night as well!

Great Expectations 10-25-2013 12:55 PM

It is weird how Billy cost us 16.1 runs on defense this year. Those formulas need some tweaking.

Hos's numbers there don't pass the eye test.

mr. tegu 10-30-2013 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 10122651)
Hosmer should not sniff a GG. He was -9.4 in runs saved. Gordon was barely above average at 1.6. Escobar and Perez were two of the top five defenders in the AL. If they don't get it they shouldn't have the awards.

:)

theelusiveeightrop 10-30-2013 10:04 AM

Cain got hurt thinking about the possibility of winning.

Strongside 10-30-2013 10:10 AM

LMAO at all of you Hosmer haters.

Mr. Laz 10-30-2013 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strongside (Post 10140677)
LMAO at all of you Hosmer haters.

All?

I only see one.

'Hamas' Jenkins 10-30-2013 05:24 PM

That wasn't hating, dipshit. It's not even in the same galaxy.

'Hamas' Jenkins 10-30-2013 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Expectations (Post 10122981)
It is weird how Billy cost us 16.1 runs on defense this year. Those formulas need some tweaking.

Hos's numbers there don't pass the eye test.

You don't know how to read the stat.


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