ChiefsPlanet

ChiefsPlanet (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/index.php)
-   Washington DC and The Holy Land (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=30)
-   -   Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=257011)

notorious 03-21-2012 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Gigglepants (Post 8481066)
Agree, but how is that the same scenario that Frank described?

He's attempting to backtrack out of his statement earlier.

I understand.

Radar Chief 03-21-2012 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief (Post 8481061)
So Zimmerman chooses to confront someone he believes is a criminal. He pursues the suspected criminal that is running from him, even though police have told him its not necessary.

And then wants to claim self defense?

Absurd.

Agreed.
Even as a legal CCW carrier, you cannot instigate a confrontation then use deadly force to end the confrontation and call it self-defense.
Maybe in Texas you could but this is Florida.

Saul Good 03-21-2012 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar Chief (Post 8481089)
Agreed.
Even as a legal CCW carrier, you cannot instigate a confrontation then use deadly force to end the confrontation and call it self-defense.
Maybe in Texas you could but this is Florida.

You are completely wrong. If you tell someone to stop talking at a theater and they then pull out a gun and start shooting at you, you started the confrontation, but that doesn't mean you can't shoot them in self defense.

There is a difference between initiating a violent interaction (pulling a gun on someone for no reason, having them reach for a rock to throw at you, and you shooting them out of "self defense") and initiating a confrontation that does not necessarily mean that violence is forthcoming.

Pawnmower 03-21-2012 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar Chief (Post 8481089)
Agreed.
Even as a legal CCW carrier, you cannot instigate a confrontation then use deadly force to end the confrontation and call it self-defense.
Maybe in Texas you could but this is Florida.

The problem for the prosecution will be that it might seem 'reasonable' that Trayvon martin was the instigator if he punched Zimmerman in the face when approached by him. Just approaching someone is not 'instigating' anything. If you approach someone and ask them a question, they punch you in the face...all bets are off. It becomes self defense there.....I'm not asserting that is what happened, I'm just suggesting that it could be a reasonable scenario, based on the evidence.

Radar Chief 03-21-2012 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 8481106)
You are completely wrong. If you tell someone to stop talking at a theater and they then pull out a gun and start shooting at you, you started the confrontation, but that doesn't mean you can't shoot them in self defense.

There is a difference between initiating a violent interaction (pulling a gun on someone for no reason, having them reach for a rock to throw at you, and you shooting them out of "self defense") and initiating a confrontation that does not necessarily mean that violence is forthcoming.

Ok, change “confrontation” for “altercation” since that’s what we were discussing.

Pawnmower 03-21-2012 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar Chief (Post 8481116)
Ok, change “confrontation” for “altercation” since that’s what we were discussing.

You can change the wording to whatever you want...call it 'fight.'

If You approach someone, ask them a question....that does not mean you are starting an altercation / fight. Even if you are rude. It doesn't give that person the right to punch you in the face. Punching the person in the face would be where I consider the _____(insert word here)____ to start. I think most jurors would tend to agree with me. You don't have the right to defend yourslef with force if someone is rude to you. You do if someone punches you.

Saul Good 03-21-2012 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar Chief (Post 8481116)
Ok, change “confrontation” for “altercation” since that’s what we were discussing.

Semantics that changes nothing. If your actions were neither violent nor threatening, you are fully within your rights to defend yourself if someone responds with violence. If you were legitimately provoking someone, that might change things, but asking someone where he's going doesn't constitute provoking violence.

DenverChief 03-21-2012 03:37 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cWwU...e_gdata_player

Pawnmower pwned

It's all going Down like most of us said - all you conspiracy theorists ante looney

Radar Chief 03-21-2012 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower (Post 8481108)
The problem for the prosecution will be that it might seem 'reasonable' that Trayvon martin was the instigator if he punched Zimmerman in the face when approached by him. Just approaching someone is not 'instigating' anything. If you approach someone and ask them a question, they punch you in the face...all bets are off. It becomes self defense there.....I'm not asserting that is what happened, I'm just suggesting that it could be a reasonable scenario, based on the evidence.

Agreed, and from the police report it does sound like Martin was whoopin Zimmerman’s ass.
The part that I just can’t get past is that none of this needed to happen. He could’ve followed Trayvon to wherever he was going and lead police there without the confrontation.

Radar Chief 03-21-2012 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 8481137)
Semantics that changes nothing. If your actions were neither violent nor threatening, you are fully within your rights to defend yourself if someone responds with violence. If you were legitimately provoking someone, that might change things, but asking someone where he's going doesn't constitute provoking violence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower (Post 8481127)
You can change the wording to whatever you want...call it 'fight.'

If You approach someone, ask them a question....that does not mean you are starting an altercation / fight. Even if you are rude. It doesn't give that person the right to punch you in the face. Punching the person in the face would be where I consider the _____(insert word here)____ to start. I think most jurors would tend to agree with me. You don't have the right to defend yourslef with force if someone is rude to you. You do if someone punches you.

Did you two just now start reading my posts?

Pawnmower 03-21-2012 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar Chief (Post 8481147)
Agreed, and from the police report it does sound like Martin was whoopin Zimmerman’s ass.
The part that I just can’t get past is that none of this needed to happen. He could’ve followed Trayvon to wherever he was going and lead police there without the confrontation.

Oh I agree...and as much as it sucks to say, I can say this because I am not family of the victim or Zimmerman...but

This is a very interesting case, really in some grey legal areas. I mean with taxes/revenue being cut, more neighborhood watch type programs will need to exist...There was an article that said in Zimmermans neighborhood of 200ish apartments, there were 400 police calls the prior 12 months , with something like 1 shooting, and 20ish break ins/robberies. So I can hardly blame citizens for protecting their property and rights.....we have citizen arrest capability for a reason.

I had read that Trayvon Martin was suspended from school at the time...I'd be interested to know what for, and if he had any record of gang involvement. Everyone says their kid is a good kid...I work in property management , and have dealt with gang-banger kids younger than him that were dangerous, and their parents think theyre angels.

There are two sides to every story...This will be a fascinating case....It is a tragedy, of course but maybe we can grow as a society. For example, everyone was screaming 'zimmerman was white, this is racist!" at 1st but maybe now that it is a known fact that he speaks spanish, is latino and has black family and many friends even in that neighborhood.....maybe people wont be so hasty to pull out the race card next time.

Who knows, I just hope something good comes of this.

Pawnmower 03-21-2012 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar Chief (Post 8481158)
Did you two just now start reading my posts?

I did, yah..came home from work just now.

Radar Chief 03-21-2012 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower (Post 8481184)
I did, yah..came home from work just now.

ROFL that’s OK, just that you’re saying the same things I have been, we don’t disagree here. Same with Saul.

Radar Chief 03-21-2012 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower (Post 8481181)
Oh I agree...and as much as it sucks to say, I can say this because I am not family of the victim or Zimmerman...but

This is a very interesting case, really in some grey legal areas. I mean with taxes/revenue being cut, more neighborhood watch type programs will need to exist...There was an article that said in Zimmermans neighborhood of 200ish apartments, there were 400 police calls the prior 12 months , with something like 1 shooting, and 20ish break ins/robberies. So I can hardly blame citizens for protecting their property and rights.....we have citizen arrest capability for a reason.

I had read that Trayvon Martin was suspended from school at the time...I'd be interested to know what for, and if he had any record of gang involvement. Everyone says their kid is a good kid...I work in property management , and have dealt with gang-banger kids younger than him that were dangerous, and their parents think theyre angels.

There are two sides to every story...This will be a fascinating case....It is a tragedy, of course but maybe we can grow as a society. For example, everyone was screaming 'zimmerman was white, this is racist!" at 1st but maybe now that it is a known fact that he speaks spanish, is latino and has black family and many friends even in that neighborhood.....maybe people wont be so hasty to pull out the race card next time.

Who knows, I just hope something good comes of this.

I saw that. The article also quoted someone in the neighborhood saying he, I’m assuming they meant Zimmerman, helped the police solve many of the break-ins they were experiencing. Which may be part of why they weren’t quick with charges, they know Zimmerman. :hmmm:

jspchief 03-21-2012 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower (Post 8481181)
Oh I agree...and as much as it sucks to say, I can say this because I am not family of the victim or Zimmerman...but

This is a very interesting case, really in some grey legal areas. I mean with taxes/revenue being cut, more neighborhood watch type programs will need to exist...There was an article that said in Zimmermans neighborhood of 200ish apartments, there were 400 police calls the prior 12 months , with something like 1 shooting, and 20ish break ins/robberies. So I can hardly blame citizens for protecting their property and rights.....we have citizen arrest capability for a reason.

I had read that Trayvon Martin was suspended from school at the time...I'd be interested to know what for, and if he had any record of gang involvement. Everyone says their kid is a good kid...I work in property management , and have dealt with gang-banger kids younger than him that were dangerous, and their parents think theyre angels.

There are two sides to every story...This will be a fascinating case....It is a tragedy, of course but maybe we can grow as a society. For example, everyone was screaming 'zimmerman was white, this is racist!" at 1st but maybe now that it is a known fact that he speaks spanish, is latino and has black family and many friends even in that neighborhood.....maybe people wont be so hasty to pull out the race card next time.

Who knows, I just hope something good comes of this.

The report I read said he had no criminal history and no school record related to violence.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:29 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.