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-   -   NFL Draft A mock draft that will make your heads explode (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=268335)

Exoter175 01-02-2013 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 9266951)
By all means, lets go out and draft an ILB #1 because "its not a wasted pick."
I didn't say that, now did I?

I'm just saying if all of the top 5 QB's are on the same level, and the top 5 ILB's are not, merely as an example, why wouldn't we go get the best player at a position we need and then take a very minimalistic hit and get our QB second?

Furthermore, you guys aren't even considering for a moment that the new HC and FO will draft a guy they like, not BQBA with the #1 pick.

What happens if the Chiefs braintrust falls in love with Bray over Smith/etc?

Do you guys want them taking Bray first, a round ahead of his projection? or would you guys rather they take him in the second and use that first on a guy who can start today?

We have a lot of metrics to digest until the draft, and you guys are automatically assuming that Geno is the #1 pick of the draft because we need a QB, and only taking into consideration that need.

You guys haven't even begun to hypothesize the idea that perhaps our new HC won't like Geno, perhaps he likes another guy. Perhaps that HC might see the value play here, and knock out two needs by taking his QB in the second, instead of the first.

Crazy right?

Saccopoo 01-02-2013 01:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exoter175 (Post 9266800)
I NEVER said we shouldn't get a QB dude, not ****ing once, and never did I say our QB situation was good or that we didn't need to pickup a QB. All I'm saying is we don't necessarily have to spend our first pick on a QB since there is no clear cut "guy" in the QB prospects, and as it sits right now, we can just about get the same talent from a QB in the second round, as we 'd get in the first.
And you can say the exact same thing for every other position on the football field in this draft.

e.g., Luke Joeckel is currently rated the #1 OT, but Barrett Jones, the 2011Outland Trophy winner at LT, could be had at the top of the second.

Dee Milliner is not markedly better than David Amerson.

Manti Te'o is not markedly better than Kevin Minter.

And we can do this all day long.

As you say, we can get similar talent in the second as we can in the first with just about every single position.

Quote:
You need an exercise in comprehension because you are failing dangerously at this one.
You should take your own words to heart. There is a reason that 137 other posters have been beating their respective heads against a wall in replying to you over and over and over. You really aren't as smart as you think you are.

Quote:
Also, we have no clue how Stanzi will play at the NFL level, our brain trust has decided we shouldn't evaluate him in an NFL game because we know better. If you are taken in the 5th round or later, you can't be a good QB, right? lols
So, your secondary reason for not taking a QB with the first pick is that we have Ricky Stanzi on the roster? A guy who obviously couldn't beat out Cassel or Quinn? Stunning argument.

Quote:
As for the LT, if there is a clear cut LT that separates himself from the rest, **** yeah you draft that guy, especially with the #1 pick. More important than a good QB, is his Left Tackle, do you want to waste the investment of your #1 QB without a tackle to protect him? Its all about the available talent. CAN you get a comparable talent in the 2nd round with an LT as the first round? As of right now, **** no, not even CLOSE. QB? Yes.
Really? Who's the QB that will be available in the second round that's better, that has more upside, that has a higher floor than Geno Smith?

And then, who's the OT who is so much better than everyone else in this draft that you couldn't find comparable talent at the top of the second round?

Quote:
Are we that desperate? I mean, I know we have Cassel and Quinn on the roster for now, but do we really have to waste a #1 pick on a QB if the talent is equal to that of a guy we can get in the 2nd round?
See, the thing is that the vast majority of quality posters here feel that Geno Smith is the talent in this draft. On the other hand, the guys who are supporting the "let's draft a LT, or a MLB, or yet another DT" are, for the majority, the true idiots around here that have proven themselves idiots over months and years of ignorant and inane postings.

Quote:
Justify that to me and I'll jump on the Geno or bust bandwagon, as of right now I see no justification, at least not until after the combine.
And that's the thing. After Geno just put in three years of starting at the QB position that equalled/surpassed Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin statistically, and that he's shown game in and game out that he's got the necessary tools to be an elite level prospect at the QB position.

So, here's a little justification for you to see:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fAOMUjoTOyI?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bZo__7PRl8A?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4Hhcnos0g60?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LZCPd5u6f3c?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GB5OW9i7KHs?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qvrXu9Fsvpk?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Exoter175 01-02-2013 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9266958)
You basically, are, yeah. Play it off with sarcasm, but Jovan Belcher's spot in our 3-4 defense isn't that ****ing important. Why the **** would we even CONSIDER drafting that spot at #1 overall when it can be had later in the draft?

And before you say "these QBs can be drafted later on," the answer is "No." They should not be drafted later. They're so much more ****ing important. The potential reward is higher, and the potential bust factor is negligible.
No, I'm really not. All I'm saying right now, is that Te'o is the guy in this draft, as of right now. He's the Bee's Knees as they'll say. So far the general consensus is that the QB position is a cluster**** in this draft, it isn't great, there is no separation, and of all drafts not to waste a top pick in, this is the one not to waste a top pick on a QB in. ****, Pretty sure Kiper has already even hinted at that, but I hate Kiper so lets not put stock in him.

Point is, it isn't about taking a risk and getting boom or bust, its about priorities. If we can take that boom/bust pick in the second and get a guaranteed starter in a position of need in the first, why not take my route? And kill two birds with one stone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9266961)
What are the kicker/punter rankings? If we could get a 99 punter with our 83 QB, and then pick up a 78 ILB, THEN we'd be talking!
We already have our MVP punter :shake:

NJChiefsFan 01-02-2013 01:24 AM
The problem isn't that I don't understand what you are saying. The problem is that the difference between Geno/Wilson and the rest is big enough. Having Barkley over Wilson is crazy. Also, ILB being tied with CB is crazy. That is the major issue that creates the argument. That and not understanding that the QB position is SO important that even if you aren't gaining a massive difference between 1st and 2nd round QBs, its still more than enough to make QB the pick over Teo.

NJChiefsFan 01-02-2013 01:25 AM
You also asked me who Glennon was a while back. How can you possibly rank him properly or understand the gap between him and Geno/Wilson?

Imon Yourside 01-02-2013 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exoter175 (Post 9266940)
Sounds good to me :clap:



Right? Basically how I feel right now having watched Geno's final two games thinking.....this guy is supposed to be a cut above the rest? Only with our luck would we get this draft class with the #1 pick.



The problem with that is the rest of the world doesn't agree. There are Mocks that have 1 QB in the first, 4, 2, 3, none. 4 different QB's listed as the first QB pick. Hell, 6 months ago, Geno was THE guy. He was hands down the unanimous pick for the #1 QB taken, now that isn't the case and I've seen Mocks with him in the second round.

What that says to me is that there is no consensus. This time last year and all year before that, there was no doubt that Luck/RG3 were #1/#2 QB's taken. Not so much this year.

This draft reminds me more of the Browns, when they went and grabbed who was it? Joe Thomas, Left Tackle, then traded up to draft Brady Quinn 1 spot ahead of Kansas City before we drafted him, which I believe was still a Carl Peterson team and he went on record to say he would have drafted him at that spot too.

I'm just saying as of right now, I think Te'O is hands down the best at his position, and I think we can easily get one of the best players in this draft, as well as a young talented QB who is "on par" with everyone else in this draft class, at the number 2 spot.

Admittedly, I do have a lot of video to watch on Smith and Bray, so that could change. But what I have seen so far, I'm not sure there is enough separation to say without a doubt, that Geno is the #1 guy hands down. Although, that being said, from the 4 games I've watched this year with Geno, I'm not opposed to him being a Chief at all, I do like him as a QB, but I don't love him yet. And that could change with time and with more metrics.
That's not what I meant, what I mean is the mock drafturbator is so ****ing worthless he doesn't deserve his own thread much less an exploding head reaction when GENO will be a CHIEF with the 1st overrall pick.

Saccopoo 01-02-2013 01:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exoter175 (Post 9266957)
Imagine this was Madden for a second, so I can dumb this down.

you have 5 QB's in the first two rounds, they are ranked as such.

1. Smith: 82 Overall
2. Barkley: 81 Overall
3. Wilson: 81 Overall
4. Bray: 80 Overall
5. Glennon: 77 Overall

2 of those guys will get taken in the first round, the other 3 will be available in the second round.

Now lets say ILB goes like this

1. Te'O: 87 Overall
2. Minter: 83 Overall
3. Ogletree: 81 Overall
4. Johnson: 80 Overall
5. Skov: 78 Overall

You're telling me that you wouldn't take, say, Te'O at an overall score of 87, and then draft Wilson at an 81 overall? Instead you'd take Smith at 82 and Ogletree at 81? Seems like you get better Value out of Te'o/Wilson than Smith/Ogletree.
Holy shit.

You can't possibly be this ****ing stupid.

Nightfyre 01-02-2013 01:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exoter175 (Post 9266957)
I would disagree with you. Our needs are exactly this.

1. QB
.
.
.
.
.
.
2. CB/ILB
3. Tackle
4-whatever Guard, DE, Safety, Tight End.

The point you are just not getting is the talent difference here, and how marginally they might be, or more importantly, where our FO decides to place them at.

Imagine this was Madden for a second, so I can dumb this down.

you have 5 QB's in the first two rounds, they are ranked as such.

1. Smith: 82 Overall
2. Barkley: 81 Overall
3. Wilson: 81 Overall
4. Bray: 80 Overall
5. Glennon: 77 Overall

2 of those guys will get taken in the first round, the other 3 will be available in the second round.

Now lets say ILB goes like this

1. Te'O: 87 Overall
2. Minter: 83 Overall
3. Ogletree: 81 Overall
4. Johnson: 80 Overall
5. Skov: 78 Overall

You're telling me that you wouldn't take, say, Te'O at an overall score of 87, and then draft Wilson at an 81 overall? Instead you'd take Smith at 82 and Ogletree at 81? Seems like you get better Value out of Te'o/Wilson than Smith/Ogletree.

Of course, that is under the assumption that no QB separates themselves and proves to be elite, because none of them have so far.
If we're playing madden, what are the speeds of the linebackers? That makes a big difference for me.

RealSNR 01-02-2013 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exoter175 (Post 9266970)
Point is, it isn't about taking a risk and getting boom or bust, its about priorities. If we can take that boom/bust pick in the second and get a guaranteed starter in a position of need in the first, why not take my route? And kill two birds with one stone?



We already have our MVP punter :shake:
Colquitt's on the last year of his contract. He'll need leverage. Call up Gene Smith and find out what his scouts know about punters.

And your route sucks. It delays the most important position unnecessarily. It takes away our agency and choice, which is the WHOLE ****ING POINT of giving the worst team in the NFL the #1 overall pick. Why settle for Mike Glennon or (worse) Ryan Nassib when we can pick from Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson (both of him will be gone likely by the top 10). Why would you delay taking the best possible QB all so you can get ****ing TEO?

And Te'o isn't the ****ing bee's knees of this draft. He doesn't have elite speed. He's not a physical freak like Pat Willis. He's probably pretty smart and pretty dedicated. He could be a good player, but so could Shane Skov, who can be had likely TWO ****ING ROUNDS later. Te'o isn't Patrick Willis like you think he is. He's not Ray Lewis. He's James Laurenaitis at best.

RunKC 01-02-2013 01:34 AM
Taylor Lewan is going to be every bit worth the 1st overall pick in this draft after today.

Lewan has only given up 2 sacks the entire season and today he owned the best pass rusher in college in pass pro. Aside from the one mistake on a running play, he dominated Clowney. Clowney didn't get anywhere near Michigan's QB. No pressures and no sacks.

Not saying we should take this guy. Just saying that there will be a player or two who is worth the first pick and right now Lewan looks like one of them.

So before you say that Barrett Jones is just as good as Lewan or Joekel, step back and realize that you're a dumbass.

RealSNR 01-02-2013 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 9266984)
Taylor Lewan is going to be every bit worth the 1st overall pick in this draft after today.

Lewan has only given up 2 sacks the entire season and today he owned the best pass rusher in college in pass pro. Aside from the one mistake on a running play, he dominated Clowney. Clowney didn't get anywhere near Michigan's QB. No pressures and no sacks.

Not saying we should take this guy. Just saying that there will be a player or two who is worth the first pick and right now Lewan looks like one of them.
Perfect. Pioli can brainwash Clark into taking the Michigan OT, because that's what Daddy in law Parcells did.

Exoter175 01-02-2013 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 9266969)
And you can say the exact same thing for every other position on the football field in this draft.

e.g., Luke Joeckel is currently rated the #1 OT, but Barrett Jones, the 2011Outland Trophy winner at LT, could be had at the top of the second.

Dee Milliner is not markedly better than David Amerson.

Manti Te'o is not markedly better than Kevin Minter.

And we can do this all day long.

As you say, we can get similar talent in the second as we can in the first with just about every single position.

You still aren't getting the point I'm making, if all things are equal at the QB pool this year, you'd still have us pick a QB #1 overall knowing we could get that exact same QB in the second round and use the #1 pick on a player with more talent at a different position?



You should take your own words to heart. There is a reason that 137 other posters have been beating their respective heads against a wall in replying to you over and over and over. You really aren't as smart as you think you are.

You're right, I'm probably smarter than I give myself credit for.

So, your secondary reason for not taking a QB with the first pick is that we have Ricky Stanzi on the roster? A guy who obviously couldn't beat out Cassel or Quinn? Stunning argument.

No, that statement has nothing to do with me drafting or not drafting a QB with the #1 pick, it has everything to do with me pointing out that we have a QB we drafted on this team that we haven't tried out, and therefore cannot say for certain that we don't have an NFL caliber QB on this roster. Good job with the lack of reading comprehension there, one argumentative point after you just accosted me for it. High five buddy!


Really? Who's the QB that will be available in the second round that's better, that has more upside, that has a higher floor than Geno Smith?

And then, who's the OT who is so much better than everyone else in this draft that you couldn't find comparable talent at the top of the second round?

I'm sorry, are you an NFL scout? Have you seen film I have not? Have you done research I haven't? Because you appear to be Signed, Sealed, Delivered on Geno, and I am not. I'm not sold on any QB at this point, and apparently neither are the EXPERTS, of which you are not. Sorry for being on their side of the fence and not having nearly the closed mind that you have. I'd be willing to bet that Bray and Wilson's stock improves after their combines and pro days and challenge Geno for top pick, or at least one of them will. Bray might just have an impressive combine but still hang back a bit due to certain question marks. Either way the point is that you can't seem to grasp the concept I'm putting out there, no matter how many times I try to dumb it down and explain it to you. Do I need to draw a picture and upload it?

See, the thing is that the vast majority of quality posters here feel that Geno Smith is the talent in this draft. On the other hand, the guys who are supporting the "let's draft a LT, or a MLB, or yet another DT" are, for the majority, the true idiots around here that have proven themselves idiots over months and years of ignorant and inane postings.

I'm curious, how do they prove themselves idiots? How is it that every year when it comes to the draft in KC when we don't have a QB, that the "idiots" before the draft are the guys who say don't draft a QB because we are desperate, and then the guys who are the Smarty McSmartypants happen to be the guys who are like "GO GET YOU SOME OF THAT JAMARCUS RUSSEL BABY".


And that's the thing. After Geno just put in three years of starting at the QB position that equalled/surpassed Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin statistically, and that he's shown game in and game out that he's got the necessary tools to be an elite level prospect at the QB position.

So you're banking on statistics? Gotcha. Clearly College Stats make or break a QB at the NFL level. Tell me again, why is Ricky Stanzi not our starting QB then? He's the best QB on our roster according to College Statistics.
I decided to do something I dislike, and bold my responses inside the quote, because you made so many retorts.

RunKC 01-02-2013 01:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9266987)
Perfect. Pioli can brainwash Clark into taking the Michigan OT, because that's what Daddy in law Parcells did.
Branden Albert said he wants to stay in KC, and Pioli won't have say in the decisions.

It's up to Geno to keep his value in the top 10. Just hope he doesn't shit the bed at the Senior Bowl or Combine.

1 of these QB's will be a top 10 talent and it's probably going to be Geno or Wilson.

Nightfyre 01-02-2013 01:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exoter175 (Post 9266993)
I decided to do something I dislike, and bold my responses inside the quote, because you made so many retorts.
Personally, I've invested a shitload of time watching a lot of different QBs and developed a QB big board that is twelve deep. I watch a lot of games live and a lot of youtube snap-by-snaps since I don't have the luxury of coaches film. Sac also puts in a lot of time watching and doing research. I think you might be a little out of your depth with some of your remarks there.

RealSNR 01-02-2013 01:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exoter175 (Post 9266993)
You still aren't getting the point I'm making, if all things are equal at the QB pool this year, you'd still have us pick a QB #1 overall knowing we could get that exact same QB in the second round and use the #1 pick on a player with more talent at a different position?
Uhh... are you a ****ing idiot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo
And you can say the exact same thing for every other position on the football field in this draft.

e.g., Luke Joeckel is currently rated the #1 OT, but Barrett Jones, the 2011Outland Trophy winner at LT, could be had at the top of the second.

Dee Milliner is not markedly better than David Amerson.

Manti Te'o is not markedly better than Kevin Minter.

And we can do this all day long.

As you say, we can get similar talent in the second as we can in the first with just about every single position.
His response is right ****ing there.

If you want to play that game at QB, why not play it with the OTHER positions. Because in this particular draft, there are really no guys that separate themselves from the pack for ANY of the positions besides defensive line and pass rusher.

If all things are equal for the ILBs, why not take a guy in the 2nd and take a QB in the first?

If all things are equal for the OTs, why not take a guy in the 2nd and take a QB in the first?

For some goddamn reason with you it has to be the QB position that gets the shaft, and talent is settled for later on.

****ing why the **** would you do that you ****ing idiot?


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