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KCJohnny 08-25-2001 12:04 PM

PPL, Dissent and New Posters
PPL: Planet party line. Marty/Gun "sucks" (not my choice of words), Rams West is COOOOOL, 6-10 under Vermiel is better than 9-7 with Gun, all ex-Chiefs are money-grubbing scum suckers who are overrated anyway, T-Rich ain't good enuff, etc...

Dissent: People who post replies not in conformity to the PPL.

New Posters: People who innocently post their actual opinions rather than subscribe to the PPL and get shouted down by the clique of regulars touting the conventional wisdom.

Oh well, its only football, and most of us deserve each other.

Football Paraiah

Fat Elvis 08-25-2001 12:11 PM

you know, you really should change your name to

The Martyball Martyr :rolleyes:

Luzap 08-25-2001 12:16 PM


This is below your standards

It's not even true.

This BB has been made up of many differing opinions.

You have been adamant in posting an unpopular opinion, and then acting like a martyr because people disagree with it. You are practising a reactionary style of journalism that I do not agree with and have little respect for (like Whitlock).

It's your choice to choose your journalistic 'style', but don't blame or label others for the reactions you incite ~ especially when you post garbage like the above, directed at the new influx of posters that might not know not to believe it.

pissed off...

NaptownChief 08-25-2001 12:21 PM


Luz is correct...Most people on this board don't conform to anything...You being in the heart of the religious discussion know that conforming is not my style nor is it of many others..

It is just coincidental that you are the only one on the other side of the one topic that the rest of us all agree on....Gun, staff and RBBC were horrible...

Fat Elvis 08-25-2001 12:32 PM


You used to make arguements that other people would listen to even if they didn't agree with what you said. You used to support your contentions with facts, figures and stats.

Now you make "observations" without even seeing the team. You read into other people's comments what you want and edit your own so that they don't say what you originally said. When other people use your old tactics (and good ones at that) of supporting their position with facts, figures and stats, you dismiss them because they are based on preseason play.

You used to be someone I really enjoyed reading over at the Star. I guess I was mistaken. I don't take your comments about The Planet Party Line (though I agree with most of the things you rail against with the exception of TRch--he's a stud in my book) as an insult. It's just something I've come to expect from you since the Chiefs decided to move in a direction you didn't like.

htismaqe 08-25-2001 12:33 PM

Good lord, John. Pity you, Pity you...first of all, stop putting words in anyone's mouth.

Marty/Gun "sucks" (not my choice of words)

Marty was mediocre. Gunther sucked. OK, I said that...

Rams West is COOOOOL

OPEN YOUR EYES. Not only does NOBODY here believe that, most know that this team, with 2 Tight Ends and a power running game, is much different from the Rams...

6-10 under Vermiel is better than 9-7 with Gun

Yep, I agree with that. Because 9-7 is the best Gunther could ever muster. At least a 6-10 year with Vermeil COULD be followed by a championship. However, I've never heard anyone on here say that before now.

all ex-Chiefs are money-grubbing scum suckers who are overrated anyway

Again, who said this, besides you? Or are you just whining because we make fun of your boy, Donnell.

T-Rich ain't good enuff

This one is the worst. I won't even grace it with a comment.

You've gone "beyond" this time...if this is the way you want to act, "take your ball and go home"


The reason nobody agrees with you is because the FACT is that Gunther was a horrible head coach. Period. End of story.

Perception is reality. When 99% of the people believe something to be true, it is. There are no absolutes.

I have disagreements with many people on this board, each and every day. Ask Clint, or Cannibal. :D The problem is that they agree with me on this point because it's true, no matter how badly you don't want it to be.

I find it funny that you blame it on the "Planet"...most of the other Chiefs' bulletin boards are rampant with posters who believe that Gunther sucked ***...

old_geezer 08-25-2001 12:33 PM

You've gone from blind, deceived homer to just blind and deceived. Did you land on your head on your last jump? :confused:

Fat Elvis 08-25-2001 12:37 PM


It's not just Chiefs fans who think Gunther and the Stooges suck. Ask anyone around the league.

Just do it Proctor. Go to the different boards around the league and find out what other teams/fans think of Gunther and the Stooges.

You are right in that it's the Planet Party Line as everyone on the entire planet knows they sucked.

MrBlond 08-25-2001 12:37 PM


Self-pity does not suit you. This suggestion is not meant to be a personal slam but stop trying to prove your point and give DV and these Chiefs a chance. I think you will be pleasently suprised and optimistic. I am not saying to drop your defense of the past but put it aside and look to the future.

TheFly 08-25-2001 12:41 PM

Can't believe you posted that Chaplain!

I will never embrace Gun because quite honestly he didn't know what he was doing... Picking a player because he liked the shirtsleeves torn off... Playing nice to high-priced, underperforming vets when giving the new kids a chance would have been better... I would gladly have endured a losing season knowing that the Chiefs were trying to make progress... But they weren't making progress... Gun never even made up game plans...

Is Gun a good defensive coach? You betcha. One of the best. But he does not know how to coach a whole football team. He showed that he does not have the mindset for it.

WarCry! 08-25-2001 02:02 PM

Well as a "new poster", I have an opinion on this. Some of you may know me from the old Rivals board so this won't be suprising, but here it is:

Gunther Cunningham and the 3 stooges were the absolute worst coaching staff in the NFL last year and maybe ever. Period. Is Gun a nice guy? Do I feel bad for him? Am I pissed at King Carl for dumping gun the way he did? The answer to all of those is YES. But, it doesn't change the fact that Gun was not a very good head coach. He got handed a team of malcontents and low morale and a QB at the center of it all (which is a whole other story), so I wouldn't have blamed him for losing seasons. The problem is that he did absolutely nothing with what he did have and he made no strides whatsoever in improving anything. He surrounded himself with the 3 stooges, which in and of itself speaks volumes about his coaching decisions. Additionally, how many games were the Chiefs competitive in last year that could have been won had they not been obviously outcoached? The answer is almost all of them. If you truly think Gun was worth his weight as a head coach in KC then you've been smoking the crackpipe just a little to much.

Marty/Gun ball. Geez, what do I say about that? RBBC, running off tackle with the teams slowest runner on 3rd and 15, playing favorites who are less talented than bench riders, the yearly "this year will be different" load, getting ahead by 7 in the first quarter and then spending the other 3 1/2 quarters trying to "protect" that lead instead of trying to build on it (and doing that with an ineffective soft zone), stop me when you feel depressed. What more is there to say? Watching the Chiefs over the last few seasons has been like beating your head up against a brick wall - pure frustration. There have been glimpses of some real talent in KC, only to see it all wasted with piss poor coaching and philosophy. I still blame Marty for replacing Gannon with Grbac in the playoffs the year they lost to Denver (who subsequently went on to win it all). But again, the whole QB thing is a whole other topic exept for the fact that he was one of those "favorites" that marty/Gun got fixated on.

Which brings me to this season. What a breath of fresh air. The Chiefs may not win much this season, but at least it will be for lack of talent or inexperience. It WON'T be because of the 3 stooges, favoritism, bad team morale due to all of the above OR lack of proper game planning. I seriously doubt the team just flat out gets "outcoached" this year. We'll see and only time will tell. However, this team will be a lot more enjoyable to watch - win or lose. There is optimism that there is nowhere to go but up. A feeling which has been sorely lacking in KC for several years now.

As for the offensive scheme (Marty/Gun ball), I was never opposed to the offensive scheme. What I was and still am opposed to is the manner in which Marty/Gun USED that scheme - idiots at work. Bottom line is the best type of offense is an EFFECTIVE offense. Regardless of what scheme it is - West Coast or whatever. The Chiefs were hell bent on using an INEFFECTIVE scheme. Will this new package be better? Obviously everybody hopes so - and I for one am optimistic. Again, time will tell. As long as it is effective, I don't really give a rat's A$! what scheme they use. Although I admit, a high powered passing type offense is certainly more exciting. The ultimate excitement though is a mark in the big "W" column in a game that has some importance - playoffs, superbowl. And that, my friends is something that Marty/Gun ball could never somehow muster. That is all I have to say about that!

In the end, I wasn't exactly thrilled about Gun being hired when Marty left - but I did give the guy a chance and showed cautious optimism during the beginnings of his reign. My opinion soon turned, but I gave him a chance. The same goes for Vermeil. I wasn't entirely thrilled about him. But unlike his predecessor, he has so far shown no reason to doubt him at this point.

Majority opinions aren't always the right opinion, but I'm sorry about this one - because in this case the majority opinion is dead on accurate.

NaptownChief 08-25-2001 02:08 PM

Well said WarCry...

stevieray 08-25-2001 02:58 PM

Doesn't this remind anyone of another worn out record? After dispensing all the red tape, it bottoms down to the fact that individuals disagree with moves by the organization, and the end result is taking it personally and taking it to the extreme.

I for one and am glad that there is no more Marty/Gun, Grbac/Gannon bullsh@t this year, just hope for the future, instead of embarassing redundancy.

keg in kc 08-25-2001 03:01 PM

The "true" PPL
The true "PPL" is not the Planet Party Line. Those initials actually represent the far more reprehensible "Proctor Party Line".

If you post according to the PPL, you will get a response similar to the following:

You have my support for launching a civil, fair-minded and amicable commentary on the previous regime. If you have ever listened to sports radio on AM, then you know the caliber of some of the people posting here.

Note the (not so) sly insult toward members of the board thrown into a comment that would otherwise be considered congenial. This is a perfect representation of the arrogance necessary to follow the PPL, essentially a statement that "anyone who disagrees with the Proctor Party Line is, by default, inferior."

Often taunts against "gen Xers" or statements like "I've been a fan since the day Moses parted the Red Sea, so you can't possibly know what you're talking about" are included when the arrogance indicative of the PPL is fully unleashed.

If, on the other hand, you are foolish enough to post something against the holy teachings of the Proctor Party Line, you will get the following:

Where's your boy Priest Holmes? Looks like Richardson is the true go-to guy"

A statement about as mature and intelligent as a three year old taunting another. "Nanny-nanny-boo-boo" for all intents and purposes. Another perfect example would be:

"I TOLD you so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"




And, finally, the self-rightousness that no follower of the Proctor Party Line could possibly exist without:

"No, of course I don't want it to happen, I just want to stifle all these cocky prognosticators who just KNOW that we'll never see RBbC in KC again.

They don't know squat. "

Bitterness, arrogance, self-rightousness and the maturity of a small child crying for attention: those are the keys necessary for full indoctrination into the Proctor Party Line. It is not necessary to have a point to follow the PPL, you must only be largely disagreeable and insult as many people as possible if and when they fail to agree with any of the PPL's stringent doctrine.

Furthermore, statistics may be used periodically, but it is not necessary for them to be accurate, you may fabricate them as long as the numbers used demonstrate whichever Proctor Party Line guideline is being discussed.


John, I have done my very best to read what you have to say and treat you with more respect than you deserve (I say that because you disrespect the rest of us repeatedly, btw), but enough is enough.

If you don't understand that saying "Priest Holmes is looking good" is not the same as saying "T-Rich sucks" then I don't know what more to say. I tire of watching everyone who disagrees with you being repeatedly insulted, I am tired of the sick joy you repeatedly demonstrate while insulting these other posters, I am disgusted by the sheer level of hypocricy you demonstrate on at least a weekly basis, and, finally, I am tired of childish displays like this thread. You should be embarrased by your behavior on this board in general and this thread in particular.

We all have faults, and I have more than most. I know these faults, and I adjust my behavior and my language to fit this environment. It's the best way I know to insure that I get along with everyone, whether I agree with them or not. I do this because I want this board to be enjoyable for everyone. I slip up occasionally, I'm not perfect (hi cannibal), but I do my damnest not to step on anyone's toeas.

I'm probably the worst person in the world to give advice, but I would suggest you do the same -- take a hard look at yourself and decide if the things you say and the way you act here are who you are or if they are who you want to be. I often enjoy your posts, I really do, but sometimes it's like pulling teeth or like nails on a chalkboard, and it seems to be getting worse as time goes on.

I've said it before and I hope I won't have to say it again...

It's okay to disagree, just don't be disagreeable.

the Talking Can 08-25-2001 03:01 PM

KCJ, self-pity is very unbecoming.

As for the fact that everyone knows Gun was in over his head here is a post from the Ravens BB. Just a tiny example of Gun's "reputation."

"When you already have a team full of leaders, having an arm is enough.

Also, remember the coaching staff is stronger.

Grbac was dealing with Gunther's enviroment, not as healthy or positive."

This post is in reference to Tony G's veiled critique of Grbac, when tony said something to the effect that "Trent Green was more of a leader than previous KC QBs."

Hope this makes sense.

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