Gen. Schwarzkopf
 

Just heard General Norman Schwarzkopf died. RIP

RIP

That man was an Icon.

He executed perhaps the greatest battle plan in history.

RIP.

There are people here much more in tune than I am to military things, but I see him as the last of the badass American generals. RIP.

R.I.P.

An incredibly legend!

R.I.P.

Damn.

RIP.

Biggest wins of the 90s.

1. Schwartzkopf over Iraq, 1991
2. Chiefs over Oilers, 1993
3. Chiefs over Steelers, 1993

Damn

"Finding out the French won't join the fight is like going deer hunting without your accordian"

That man had class.

He was 78, didn't think he was that old. He was one of the good ones. Not an egomaniac, careful with his troops, cared about the men. History will look kindly on him.

A Bear of a man.

Wow that sucks, seem like JUST yesterday he was barrelchested STORMIN NORMAN.

He was a very smart and well traveled man, for a better glimpse of the man, read Woodwards "The Commanders"... he was the kind of guy who is VERY easy for me to admire... born into privelege, but sought to earn it every day of his life.

Cant believe we're just now hearing of him being ill.

How the hell had I never heard that quote? LMAO

RIP General

I remember a reporter asking him about the French after they condemned us for going into Iraq. He had the perfect response.

I remember them getting (deservedly so) universally bashed over that, but somehow I missed that. The amount of things I remember isn't what it used to be, but I wouldn't have forgotten that. **** France.

Why are the streets of Paris lined with tress? So occupation forces can march in the shade

RIP, General

I had heard he was actually in line to become the first Fifth Star General since Eisenhower, until he questioned H.W. Bush's thinking about not going into Bahgdad and finishing the job the first time. He retired soon thereafter.

How did he die ? Some school kid shoot him ?

[I]n Vietnam in March 1970, Schwarzkopf was involved in rescuing men of his battalion from a minefield. He had received word that men under his command had encountered a minefield on the notorious Batangan Peninsula, he rushed to the scene in his helicopter, as was his custom while a battalion commander, in order to make his helicopter available. He found several soldiers still trapped in the minefield. Schwarzkopf urged them to retrace their steps slowly. Still, one man tripped a mine and was severely wounded but remained conscious. As the wounded man flailed in agony, the soldiers around him feared that he would set off another mine. Schwarzkopf, also wounded by the explosion, crawled across the minefield to the wounded man and held him down (using a “pinning” technique from his wrestling days at West Point) so another could splint his shattered leg. One soldier stepped away to break a branch from a nearby tree to make the splint. In doing so, he too hit a mine, which killed him and the two men closest to him, and blew an arm and a leg off Schwarzkopf’s artillery liaison officer. Eventually, Schwarzkopf led his surviving men to safety, by ordering the division engineers to mark the locations of the mines with shaving cream. (Some of the mines were of French manufacture and dated back to the Indochina conflict of the 1950s; others were brought by Japanese forces in World War II). Schwarzkopf says in his autobiograpy It Doesn’t Take a Hero that this incident firmly cemented his reputation as an officer who would risk his life for the soldiers under his command.

Schwarzkopf told his men that they might not like some of his strict rules, but it was for their own good. He told them “When you get on that plane to go home, if the last thing you think about me is ‘I hate that son of a bitch’, then that is fine because you’re going home alive.” Lt. General Hal Moore later wrote that it was during his time in Vietnam that Schwarzkopf acquired what later became his infamous temper, while arguing via radio for passing American Hueys to land and pick up his wounded men.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Schwarzkopf,_Jr.

Not to hijack the thread, but Bush the Elder isn't doing too well either.

Awesome. Im going to steel this

SALUTE.

I have been paying attention to that myself. Extraordinary lives both men have lived to say the least

This.

Tragic news.

RIP

I had the opportunity to see him speak at a convention in either '93 or '94. He was an absolutely captivating speaker, but what I remember most was his presence. Some people just give off a feeling of greatness, and he was certainly one of those men.

They lived full lives. lived them to the fullest to. Tragic would have been your son.
Best news of the day was hearing your son is on the mend & on his way home.
That had to be some kind of scary for you both to go through. I pray you never have to go through something like that again with your kid.

Unfortunately the enemy sleeps a little better tonight... RIP General...

Classic name as well.

Actually, this quote is often misattributed to Norman Schwarzkopf, as well as to Donald Rumsfeld and Ross Perot. The real speaker was Jed Babbin, a deputy undersecretary of defense from the first Bush administration.

The full quote is "... you know frankly, going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. You just leave a lot of useless noisy baggage behind."

Didn't Patton once say something like, "I'd rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me."

I think so, if not him it's one of those hardasses.

R.I.P General. Total respect for that guy!

Solid list.

Rip

Is it wrong that when I read the thread title I immediately thought he was a character on Hogan's Heroes?

lol

It's not wrong. Just incredibly ignorant.

RIP. I still remember some of those press briefings, including "the luckiest truck driver in Iraq".

THIS is how you first introduce yourself on CP?

:rolleyes:

That's Scheisskopf, who is a character from Catch 22

Your and idiot.

You're. Thanks for playing.

I met the general at an awards banquet at Scott AFB in the early 90's. There were a few MOH winners from WWII there as well including Charles Coolidge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_H._Coolidge

ROFL

Silly n00bs.

Strike two.

Here are a bunch of French jokes/insulting quotes. Pretty funny read. :D

http://politicalhumor.about.com/libr...enchjokes2.htm

French Jokes - Funny Quotations About France

"France has neither winter nor summer nor morals. Apart from these drawbacks it is a fine country. France has usually been governed by prostitutes." —Mark Twain

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." —General George S. Patton

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." —Norman Schwartzkopf

"We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it." —Marge Simpson

"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure." —Jacques Chirac, President of France

"As far as France is concerned, you're right." —Rush Limbaugh

"The only time France wants us to go to war is when the German Army is sitting in Paris sipping coffee." —Regis Philbin

"The French are a smallish, monkey-looking bunch and not dressed any better, on average, than the citizens of Baltimore. True, you can sit outside in Paris and drink little cups of coffee, but why this is more stylish than sitting inside and drinking large glasses of whiskey I don't know." —P.J O'Rourke (1989)

"You know, the French remind me a little bit of an aging actress of the 1940s who was still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the face for it." —John McCain, U.S. Senator from Arizona

"They've taken their own precautions against Al Qaeda. To prepare for an attack, each Frenchman is urged to keep duct tape, a white flag, and a three-day supply of mistresses in the house." —Argus Hamilton

"The only way the French are going in is if we tell them we found truffles in Iraq." —Dennis Miller

"I would call the French scumbags, but that, of course, would be a disservice to bags filled with scum. I say we invade Iraq, then invade Chirac." —Dennis Miller

"You know why the French don't want to bomb Saddam Hussein? Because he hates America, he loves mistresses and wears a beret. He IS French, people." —Conan O'Brien

"I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the Germans out of France!" —Jay Leno

"The last time the French asked for 'more proof,' it came marching into Paris under a German flag." —David Letterman

How many Frenchmen does it take to change a light bulb?
One. He holds the bulb and all of Europe revolves around him.

An old saying: Raise your right hand if you like the French.... Raise both hands if you are French.

Next time there's a war in Europe, the loser has to keep France.

Bwahahaha The last one is the best

I personally like the Leno quote the best.

I don't know why we bag on the french so much, their women folk make it all worth it! Bwahahaha! (excluding those with hair down to their arses, from their armpits)

RIP.

Too bad John Goodman is dead he would have played a great Gen Norman Schwarzkopf in the movies.

R.I.P. JG & Gen Schwartzkopf

Wow. RIP Stormin Norman

RIP norman.

WHen we fight wars, I wish the Politicians would stay out of it and let men like Norman do what is necessary to overwehlm and win a war as quickly as possible.

This man deserves credit for more than just the victory of Desert Storm he also deserves some of the credit for restoring public confidence in the American military. His leadership in Desert Storm led to victory couped with low American casualties restored the US military's reputation that was severely tarnished by Vietnam.

Rest in peace General...Sir.

What you're missing is that wars are a political act as well. Sometimes how to "win" is easy and obvious, and that's when what you're saying makes perfect sense. Sometimes how to win is not at all easy or obvious.

You're also making a mistake if you think for a second that all generals agree on how to win a war. The amount of "politics" INTERNAL to the military in a major war is just as significant as the politics external to the military.

Just sayin'

Good point there.

This.

He led the only successful war since WWII...

You have this completely backwards. Stormin Norman wanted nothing to do with going to Bagdad, the UN Mandate was to free Kuwait which was accomplished.

I agree. i think we are too eager to jump into 'Wars' and/or 'Conflicts. If it is truly a war, then I think you need to do everything in your power to win - politics be damned. I realize that's a pretty simplistic view, but in terms of ratio - I think decisions in war are based more on politicts that military. I think probably 70/30.

Vietnam was a disaster; this 10 year 'conflict' with Iraq/Afghanistan is a disaster etc.

I think you hold off on pushing all your chips in until there is truly a need for war; then you go all-in. IMO.

No argument. The issue with wars nowadays is who is the enemy? As the "enemy" becomes less clear, so does the mission, which then becomes much more political and much less susceptible to military (or purely military) answers. In other words, messy as hell.

I agree 100%.


You have to be pushed to do things that damn you to hell.

It takes a certain kind of person to do what it takes. If you ever watch a documentary on Japan and Curtis Lemay it will haunt you, but they did what had to be done.

Yep. very good point.
I think that's a huge part - not knowing who your enemies are.

other things that I think that contribute to a different approach to war since WWII is not only not knowing who the enemy is/should be, but also no clear objectives, and ROE that basically neuters our soldiers.
I can't imagine being a solider over there right now, not knowing exactly what the objective is.

I think Vietnam was a catalyst; no objective, simply body count to determine if we were 'winning' - not taking territory etc. It seems like ever since then, things have been way out of wack. Personally, I'm not a fan of 'conflicts' and how the Commander in Chiefs essentially has free reign to send troops wherever, whenever, and for whatever reason he deems so (largely based on Politics) under the guise of a 'conflict' not a war.

Very good point in your post.

RIP General
:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

couldn't find a decent salute on youtube.

Those were absolute gold.

I have this one forever etched in my mind.

The General in front of one fo those maps discussing the latest carpet bombing of the day. He's interrupted by a reporter:

"General, what do you think of Saddam Hussein's military tactics and strategy?"

The General: As far as Saddam Hussein being a great military strategist, he is neither a strategist, nor is he schooled in the operational art, nor is he a tactician, nor is he a general, nor is he a soldier.

Other than that he's a great military man-I want you to know that."


I was sitting in my living room and I thought my son was going to need to revive me after laughing so hard.

ROFL

God bless that man. He was a true American Warrior.

Amazing what a General with a clear objective and some resources can do. Liberate Kuwait? Done.

Another great read on him is "It Doesnt Take A Hero", got that as a giveaway freebie at the local library, great book.

RIP. He was a great man.

RIP

This is a great point. The overall moral and public confidence of the military was low during the 70s and 80s.

After the great success of Desert Storm the popularity of the military and veterans were high. Vets were treated completely different than Vietnam vets.
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For references concerning the percieved differences between political influence and the limited U.S. wars of DS/DS vs. OIF see:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...arzkopf/1.html
His oral history from DS/DS or his own book of course. See also frontline's episode called Swarzkopf's Dilemma. Howard and Trainer's book; The General's War compared to their book on OIF;Cobra II also illustrates relatively few differences in political approach and most of the players are the same but in different billets. The evolution of the Combatant Commander (COCOM) Central Command fighting the Ground fight in 91 to the Coalition Forces Land Component Commander (CFLCC) in 2003. However, the center of gravity was the same: Saddam. So for results: the mission of liberating Kuwait in 91: Done of course. For terminating the Regime (Saddam) in 2003; Done of course. For Saddam and in particular the defeat of the Republican Guard in 91: Not done- I've got a theory why but that's a whole course.... And we never left the area: Southern Watch continued until OIF, Desert Fox in 98. For WMD search in 2003: Didn't exist or couldn't find it. Key difference is the concept of, "if you break it, you have to fix it," (Powell as SECSTATE vs. Powell as CJCS ) from OIF and OEF that did not exist in 91 and one of the lessons from Swartzkopf's dilemma: Termination criterea or endstate and what the military can and cannot do towards a political endstate. Military buildup in 80s for cold war (WWII parallels) and expansion in 2000s for Counter insurgency (Vietnam parallels) and needs for the future? General Swarzkopf was a solid mentor and he is missed.