certainly, we are not all shaped the same. but, obesity is a disease.

My insurance gets cheaper if I exercise every week. It's how it should be.

How do they know if you are exercising?

Type 2 Diabetes is a disease because it is not causes by obesity. Research has shown that Type 2 has a very very strong genetic component. It runs in families and there are thin Type 2 diabetics.

So, far research has shown that Type 2 deals with at least one disorder in the way the digestive system processes carbs.

You have to live webcam masturbation sessions back to the insurance office.

Every damn day on TV the medical profession is creating a new "disease"; Low-T, OBD, and 100 other bullshit illnesses so both doctors and pharmaceutical companies can keep pumping out drugs and dollars.

It's the biggest scam I've ever seen and being a fat tub of shit is 99.9% choice and .01% illness with only something like an under active thyroid that causes obesity.

Look at all the things we eat and all the eating contests and massive portions. We are one bloated fat nation, myself included.

You go in for a check up. Monthly

Who performs this checkup? What do they check?

That's exactly right. There are extremely obese people who have do not have Type 2 Diabetes, and there are people who are thin as a rail that do.

Being overweight DOES exacerbate the effects of Type 2 Diabetes, but anyone who thinks that people with the disease deserve it because they overeat is an asshole.

Well, I am somewhat overweight. I carry it well. work hard and am currently working out and doing something about it. I absolutely do not believe obesity is a disease. Neither do I believe depression (for the most part) is a disease, but is a result of self-absorption. I don't believe alcoholism is a disease, but a choice. But with there being a psychological diagnosis for every self-control issue, this Pandora's box is now open and not likely to ever close. 100 years ago, there wasn't all of this psycho bull, but now that you can sit home, drink beer and draw a check for being depressed, I guess obesity is fair game as well.

Bloodwork, blood pressure, weight, like a normal physical. Bloodwork isn't every time, basically as long as you stay healthy the insurance gets cheaper.

Yea man, really sucks to have drive/consistency in working out and being proud of your appearance.

First smart thing you have said, so we can agree that obesity it self is NOT a disease? Depression is real and is a disease, no arguments there. However, there is also a large portion that continues to look for "disease" when in fact people just aren't mentally tough enough to make positive changes in their lives because it IS hard to do. Depression is the cause of many problems with weight but still only factors in a small percentage of those who are overweight.

I love how fat people point the finger of narcissism for those who care about their appearance. Like that is some sort of bad thing. I like working out but there are plenty of days I would like to skip the gym, but I don't. I have honestly never been depressed a day in my life and I think working out consistently plays a large role in that and the fact I am comfortable with myself, inside and out.

Always enough haters to go around I suppose. Thanks Dave!

So Lewdog......honest question here:

You're still young, and able to easily keep the weight off because your metabolism works for you instead of against you. Think you will still have that same drive 23 years down the road?

Likely not at all. I will definitely be taking the calories down as I age. I have adjusted them quite a bit even here in my late 20's compared to when I was lifting at 20-21. I used to be able to eat anything and gain weight slowly if at all. I can't do that anymore. However, I lift weights 99% harder than most people and have a decent amount of muscle mass which burns more resting calories than anything else you can do. Realistically, many weighlifters have an easier time putting on muscle mass in their late 20's and early 30's, simply because they can eat less to get the calories surplus that is required to put on muscle.

This isn't rocket science. As your body changes, you adjust your calories to meet you goal. Want to gain weight (like I do every winter), eat more. Want to lose more (like I am now), eat less. Keep constantly exercising throughout.

Ground breaking info that a lot of people do not put into practice.

LMAO I was just being funny. Thought that was obvious. Way to be a bitch about it though.

I love you too.

Let me know when you want me to write you a workout/diet plan.

Metabolism slows because you stop doing stuff. That's the largest component. Slowdown purely because of age isn't really that big of a deal.

LMAO

This thread, of course, devolves into Gym Rats versus Regular Guys.

I can't wait to see the current Gym Rats in 20 years when they've spent the overwhelming majority of that time behind a desk 40 hours a week, dealt with infants, their wives and hormones, more work, four birthday parties every weekend, etc.

Let's see how you feel about hitting the gym when you've worked eight hours a day, then wake up six times a night to take care of your baby, then deal with weekends filled with more kids.

The mistake that we all make in discussions like this is thinking that our own personal experience reflects how it is for everyone.

Lots. Tons. 70 or even 80 as well.

Sigh. Of course obesity is not a disease. It is a series of bad choices, compounded by more bad choices that lead to a feeling of entrapment and hopelessness. Those of you who have never experienced it tend to be the ones casting the largest stones in this thread.

I'll give you a pass though, because both of you have tried to help me out over the years. Anyone else though that thinks you're douches have every right too, because you're laying down some gauntlet about something you have ZERO understanding of.

In the meantime though, Clay, Buck, Saulbadguy, myself, and others I'm forgetting are living proof that through hard work, dedication, will, and desire, those chains can be broken. However, it takes a level of resolve to lose over 100lbs that the vast majority of this country just doesn't have in order to accomplish those results. I won't judge them. And shame on you for judging them if you've never walked a mile in their shoes.

It's pretty easy to stack accomplishment on top of accomplishment. Try stacking some accomplishment on top of years of sheer failure. Then get back to me.

The mistake in the thinking in this thread is that just because you don't have time to go to the gym, you're destined to be fat.

If you can't make it to the gym, then you simply need to eat less in order to be a normal weight.

Nobody on that list is/was obese.

You already know how I feel about this ..people who ARE obese are usually stuffing down pain..I feel for them..stuck in a moment...

....or work with your hands.

I eat next to nothing. That doesn't mean that others in the same situation can do the same.

I had a friend here last night that's trained in martial arts once he was four. He's in his mid-30's, owns a business, married,has a five year old and a six month old. With work, kids, more work, etc. it's tough to get to the gym. Is he fat? No. 10 pounds over? Yeah.

But when and where so you find time with all that going on to burn 10? Are you willing to spend time at the gym in lieu of your family? How about you miss a huge deal because you couldn't answer your cellphone midday because you were in the sauna?

It's a Catch-22.

Hell yes! How else are you supposed to land that hot young mistress(es)?????:harumph:

You absolutely have it nailed. And I praise you for it, considering you've never been affected by the condition.

Well, I'd say I was. At 440lbs I was more than a bit chubby. :D

not when you're 11 feet tall..;)

Eat less
I am not trying to judge people; I am by no means a fitness guru

But losing fat isnt some sort of secret
I have never heard of someone getting fat off of a lean meat and salad diet

ROFL I love you, dude. /nohomo

They CAN; they're just unwilling.

Again, you don't need to exercise to burn 10 lbs. You simply need to eat less.

Stuffing down pain is actually a great analogy. For a lot of folks food is the one joy that is affordable to them that alleviates the pain they suffer in their day to day lives. Everything from marital problems, to work problems, to just being a social pariah in the World. It's a cycle that is very hard to break, and one that is far more a mental issue than just a physical one.

Example: Eating a burrito is orgasmic, since they're never going to get laid anyway. LMAO

It's not a disease lol.


So, body builders and/or fit people are just motivated or infected with some kind of "health disease"?

I agree that could be part of the issue. I know people overeat to feel better about themselfs. But thats not a disease. It's a mental issue and self confidence issue.

Taking out the very small % that being obese is a true medical issue (thyroid gland etc.) this is complete BS. It is not a disease. No way. No how.

I know I'm eating too much pizza and burgers. I know I should get up off my fat ass and exercise and eat a salad instead of that slab of ribs. How the **** is that a disease?

I understand that Dr.'s are drawing an analogy between obesity and alcoholism.

I know some of you have struggled with over indulgence of alcohol. I was a full fledged drunk for 10 years. I just decided to do something with my life than get drunk every night. I can drink a couple of drinks and stop. From my personal experience I don't see how it happens that one drink and you are back to being a drunk. But, I know its real. Saw too many friends struggle with this scenario. I still don't think its a disease, that someone is powerless against the alcohol.

I smoked cigarettes for 13 years. Quit first time I tried. Others really struggle to quit. It's a hard thing to do. That nicotine gets into your brian stem and won't let your body move on.

Me being fat is my choice. I don't have a disease. Considering my history, I could be HWP if I chose too. And FTR, I have chosen to stop being a fat ass.

I don't think it's so much a decision or addiction as just not thinking about it.

Time to eat, here's some food, seems a normal meal, back to work.

The decision is to NOT eat and TO move around more. Sit at a computer, go eat some shit, sit back down at the computer is just too easy a routine.

IMO, there is a distinct qualitative difference between deciding to take a drink or smoke a cig than 'deciding' on too big a lunch.

We are talking about people who are obese, not 10 lbs over weight.

Jesus Dane, I thought your reading comprehension was better than that.



You know how I feel about this. Depression and emotional issues ARE real and should be treated. Lumping obesity as a whole into a disease is ridiculous as you already stated.

Again, this isn't me bashing on people who have gone through or are going through tons of issues because I myself haven't ever had to go through any of it. This is about the fact we know exactly what causes obesity, there isn't a magic secret. Can it be the by product of another disease? Sure. Is it largely related to a disease for most of the population? No.

I'm not obese or overweight, but I have really bad gas right now. I felt like this was the appropriate thread to share this with you all.

God bless.

ROFL

Speaking of gas, I have it as well. I went to the Cheesecake factory last night. Talk about calorie overload. I made that toilet work this morning!

People shouldn't overstate the depression/stifling aspect of overeating. For many, it's just status quo.

I never reached the heights of a 445# frame., but I did get up to 270-275#. I never felt a compulsion to eat, but we had nice restaurants near work and it was a nice break to sit down to a generous tasty meal and chat at mid day.

I went from 180-240# in college and was happy as a clam throughout. There was just a cafeteria with tons of shitty food available 24/7.

People aren't cowering somewhere eating compulsively to mask mental pain. They simply aren't thinking about it. Too large of a meal with too much fat and too many calories is simply too routine and too tasty to resist day in, day out. Processed food pops out of the fridge and heats right up, veggies have to be chopped mixed and cooked, and go bad within the week. It's a pain in the ass to eat healthy. I know because I actually PREFER salads and fresh veggies to processed food. But between going to market, picking out produce, preparing it, then throwing out the spoiled EVERY week, all it takes is one session of tossing some fries or mozzarella sticks on a baking sheet to fall back into familiar patterns.

I'm now back down to 195#, but it took a volitional realization that I HATED how I looked and an extended period of nearly no caloric intake [never did exercise, didn't have the time].

In sum, for many overeating is a default not a proactive effort. The proactive effort is NOT overeating.

I can take this a few ways, but no way could anyone make a blank statement that obesity is a disease unless you consider than anyone who has it is at a health risk. There are some who through genetics are obese, great minority. There are some who have mental issues that make them obese, which could be considered a disease. Most have gotten themselves to where they are. That's not a disease, its a lifestyle choice.

So despite evidence to the contrary you are just going to make a blank statement yourself. I can provide several factors out of someones control that contribute and your rebuttal is "no, they choose to be fat."

Think how ****ing ridiculous that sounds.

I made no blank statement. In fact I put them in several categories. I would say the largest category is those that did it to themselves.

I want to apologize for coming off like a gym-rat douchebag. I am really not like that in real-life and I forget that what comes as second nature to me, isn't so for everyone.

I have a bachelor's in Health and Human Performance and was a personal trainer/gym manager for a few years. And while I took a different route in my career path, for reasons of career stability/money, I still hold the value that what is healthy or weight loss is very simple. When I was training, I preached this to my clients all the time. Almost to the point of undervaluing my services! Horrible business practices I know. No wonder I chose a different career! But for me it is about honesty and all of this is really very simple. There isn't some magic formula you have to figure out. If you are gaining weight, you are eating too many calories, if you are losing weight you are eating less calories than you need.

Sacrifice isn't easy and it does suck that you have to search/seek the health foods in grocery stores while all the good tasting stuff is right in our faces. I don't like eating chicken breast and veggies, but I do. I hate the taste of tuna but eat it 5x a week. Food is about fuel for the body, not pleasure. If I sacrifice during the week by eating the right fuel, I can have the pleasure of good tasting food worked into my diet as well. I will never totally give up pizza, beer and burgers. I just know that I can't eat them every night, even if those are definitely what tastes way better.

I have offered my services to help a few members here try to get started down the right path. Guidance over the internet isn't easy as I have no the actual starting point of these guys. However, it really is simple to be healthy and lose weight. I am not talking about having 6-pack abs, I don't have those either. It is about a body weight where you are comfortable and can maintain a healthy, active life style.

I really hope those who are struggling with weight can figure out a simply system that works for them. It seriously is VERY simple. Sacrifice isn't easy, not even for me after all these years. Adjust your mind set and get the positive mental reward of changing your physical appearance, which will adjust your mental attitude as well.

Sorry if I offended anyone but I am very passionate simply because I know the sacrifices I make to live healthy and wish others could realize that it isn't easy for anyone but IS very simple to do.


/Rico style post.

That's the point I was trying to make yesterday, although I didn't get into the pattern part of it.

Just to take your point a bit further, it basically is a routine, and on top of that those wonderfully awful fried/sugar filled/baked foods themselves affect you chemically, drawing you inevitably back into their clutches with any moment of weakness. And some of us have been eating that stuff since childhood, because as hard as it is for twenty-somethings to believe, there actually was a time when pizza and pop and potato chips and hot dogs and kraft macaroni and cheese weren't evil. We didn't grow up with 24 hour fitness, dieting was a fad that was mostly for women, and generally the only people you ever saw running or biking were kids. Things have changed a lot, just in the last 20 years (and changed for the better, don't mistake what I'm saying...), more than somebody born in the 80s probably realizes. So what they might see as lazy or as a choice isn't really either one. Hell, I'm not sure I ever even heard the word "obesity" until the mid 90s.Here's an area where I know I'm different. I've always hated how I look, whether it was at 175 in my teens and some of my 20s, whether it was 245 in my late 20s, or at 215 now. I've run the gamut from athletic, to thin, to overweight, to obese, and regardless of what my weight or body composition was at the time there's never been a day in my life where I've felt comfortable in my own skin. And I know that's something that's hard to understand. Hell, it's hard for me to understand. That's the mental aspect that everybody wants to lump under "depression". And while diet and exercise can help, it doesn't fix it. I'm not ever going to magically wake up one morning brimming with confidence. Just not wired that way. Because whenever I look at myself, I only see what's wrong.Yep.

I'm not going to comment about whether obesity is a disease or a lifestyle choice. I also don't blame others for their struggle to become less obese.

It does anger me when people make excuses for obesity (from the standpoint of "my obesity isn't affecting anything. It's my body). Yes, there is a study that says that obese people are less "costly" versus healthy people. But it's illogical. We are all better off if we can curb obesity, PERIOD. End of story. And while I don't believe in forced regulations (e.g. soda bans), it drives me nuts when people get defensive about things that are going to help us become healthier.

I believe people have choices and they are entitled to make whatever choices they want. But we as a society have become very, very irresponsible about steering people to the wrong choices. We are poorly educated food consumers, poorly educated about how to stay in shape, and worse off, we have built a society that enables this miseducation. That's the heart of the problem. I don't blame obese people, but it does frustrate me when obese people try to improve their lot and get bombarded with terrible advice and confusing labeling that make it impossible to improve themselves.

Good insights.

Good post. To put it simply... losing weight is hard. Motivating yourself to go from very obese to fit is extremely, extremely hard.

We have a society have made losing weight a massive undertaking. Which makes it close to impossible if you're very obese. We don't know how to cook anymore, we've become too reliant on our cars, and you need a PhD to understand how to read food labels. In addition to that, we've made buying the right foods so ridiculously expensive while you can buy a cheeseburger at McDonald's for $1.

So I sympathize with obese people. It's very hard to be proactive, commit, and continue that commitment. I would think and expect that keeping that motivation would be easier if the process was easier, but it's not. It would also be easier if we had the right things in place by preventing people from becoming obese in the first place (e.g. teaching kids how to grow their own vegetables). We don't. We've made a hard thing to do border on the impossible.

ROFL

I hate to admit, but this thought has run through my mind often as well. I see a morbidly obese person and think "Damn, if that person was shipwrecked on an island with nothing but fresh water, they'd still survive for over a month." What a transformation that would be....... :D

The fact this epidemic is such a recent phenomenon really ends any discussion it's a "disease"

Good point, and the struggle is figuring out... given the constraints, how can we solve the problem.

How do you reduce obesity when you have "big food" using deceptive labeling? How do you convince people to make better food, when they don't know how to cook? How do you convince frugal people to buy better food when good food is unbelievably expensive? How do you convince people to stay on diets and exercise programs when: 1) they fail because they're not reading labels right; 2) they fail because they got suckered into some sham diet or exercise plan; 3) they fail because they don't have the money to pay for a trainer?

For example... I'm not a big fan of running. And I don't get people's obsession with it. If you can do it consistently, good for you. But too many people think that running an hour a day is the best way to lose weight. So much miseducation out there about how to keep yourself in good shape.

:thumb: I know first hand that you're a good dude. You've gone out of your way to write me an entire plan of action to stop the cycle. And I appreciate you immensely for taking the time to do it.

:clap: From our conversations I know this about you, and back you 100%. You get fired up about it because you give a shit. That's not a bad thing, brother. You have the ability to do good in the world.

Welp, use it against me later, I don't give a ****. I lost 185lbs and put damn near every bit back on in the last 3 years. Went from running 40 miles a week, to drinking a gallon of bourbon a week. I've been trying hard to break the chains of drinking, but it's really easy to do after a long days work. Never drank in my life before I moved down here. Alcoholism runs in my family. Funny how life works. But I know it's not a disease. It's a series of horrible ****ing choices. I'm searching for the willpower to break the ****ing chains.

It may not be the best way to lose weight, but it's certainly better than sitting on your ass watching TV.

My generation didn't spend all day playing video games. We were outside doing something active, sunrise to sunset. Stickball, street hockey, touch football, tennis - hell, we made up games to play.

Sadly, it's my generation that is allowing obesity to become an epidemic among children. Buying the PS3 because everyone else has one, then allowing thier kid to sit on it for hours on end.

Going through the drive thru and feeding your kids garbage because you're in a hurry or because you can't say boo to your kid.

Instead of blaming "big food", people can take personal responsibility for their predicament and do something to change their habits. It's not going to happen overnight. Small steps can lead to big change.

That's what I love about you, bro. You're so ****ing honest.

So you've made some bad choices in the last 3 years. BFD.

You've done it before, (lost significant weight) and you'll do it again if you want to. Start small, break those chains, then power on.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ctanoxBZ_6...+can+do+it.jpg

AA?

It worked for me.

Do they have AA for racists?

ROFL

RA?

Maybe its something in the water down there in the Ozarks. I drank like a fish down there too.

Like I said before, I just got tired of it and figured there was something more to life than getting drunk all the time. I didn't really have a plan as to how I would find that "something more". I just assumed it would be evident if I wasn't drunk all the time.

But whatever works for you, just move on to the next part of your life.

I have the blueprint. That's for sure. I don't mind putting myself out there on this board. If one person can relate and find some kind of comfort in knowing they're not alone in the world, that's good enough for me. We need to hook up this summer bro. I'm going to get up for a Cards game before the season is over. It's non negotiable. :D

I haven't gotten to the point that I'm ready to go down that road. I've been drinking for a short period of time, and feel I can do it with will power. I'm not opposed to it however if it becomes something I feel necessary.

If you guys would just eat an all protein diet and work out two hours every day, obesity would be eradicated.

I have three weeks off from September 13th to October 6th.

Let's make it happen. Set a date in that timeframe, and I'll be sure to set aside the company tickets.

I got faith in ya! Just a matter of replacing one habit for another.


For instance meth instead of alcohol will kill 2 birds with one stone. ;)

I went for 7 years and was sober for that long.

I enjoyed it. Met some nice people and made some nice industry contacts too.

You wouldn't believe who is in AA. Hell Ringo was in town one week and kept coming to our club.

But in the end it's up to you.

I started feeling like I wanted a drink again and went out and did more "research" as they call it.

Life is definitely much better sober and cheaper too.

****ing drinking is expensive.

That's funny. The only other history I have with heavy drinking was in 1999...when I lived in Branson. ROFL That was only 6 months though.

Is that what you gays do?

You keep making the mistake of lumping overweight in with obesity, two very different monsters. It doesn't take a ton of work to decrease your weight if you are obese so stop being obtuse.

And for the record, I workout a grand total of 5 hours a week.

Easy. That's a deal, my friend. Never been there, and super excited. I'll check dates at work, and set up a time with you within the week! Thanks, brother! I've driven through the Lou, but never really been able to check it out.

That's pretty much exactly how I did it. Only I added some delicious ass rabbit food to the protein.

How in the **** have I never thought of this? I live in the meth capital of the world! People in California call our meth 417. ROFL

****in' A it is! I won't drink complete dog shit, so I spend at least $50 a week as Jim Beam is the lowest shelf I'll drink.

P.S - Sober tonight. No booze in the house, and actually looking forward to work in the morning. So, it's a start!

Check September 12-14. Mariners are in town, and I know I have tickets to at least one of the games in the series, probably the Friday night game. We split seats with another company, and I don't have the schedule in front of me. We can buy tickets to any other games we'd want to go to.

:facepalm:

You, sir, a ****ing piece of shit.

Thanks for proving it with each and every post.

It's a mix between personal responsibility but also irresponsible practices by society including "Big Food." You may be oversimplifying the problem. There are people who try and despite their efforts, fail. Because they are doing the right things but working off really, really bad information.

I've always kept myself pretty healthy. I gave up fast food about 7 years ago and eat it rarely. I don't really eat junk food. I wish I was more motivated to work out, but I work out enough. But even when I was at my most active, I didn't get nearly the benefit of exercise until I started doing more total body cardio. I improved my diet a millionfold when instead of just watching what I ate, I actually followed a diet plan telling me how much dairy, protein, etc... I could eat in a day.

Now that I know this stuff, I can maintain and have for over 5 years. It took me about 30 years to figure that out, and it wasn't for lack of trying. It shouldn't have to be that hard. I hate that we took home ec and phys ed out of a lot of schools. And I hate that our food is so misleading that we don't know what we are putting into our bodies even when we're watching out for it.

:shake:

It was a joke.