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-   -   Economics The Stimulus, Before/After (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=260415)

Direckshun 06-11-2012 06:45 PM

The Stimulus, Before/After
 
I have not the slightest idea how to copy and paste this piece into a thread here. So my apologies on that.

Fortunately, it's 20 slides you should be able to breeze through in a couple minutes.

http://www.moslereconomics.com/wp-co...f/stimulus.pdf

I'm sure the next 50 posts will tell me to shove my head up my ass. :D

It's a good "read" regardless. Thoughts welcome, as if I needed to ask.

patteeu 06-11-2012 08:19 PM

Interesting. It appears that the stimulus was enacted at the depth of an economic downturn. Who could have imagined that?

The questions raised by these charts are what would these curves have looked like without the stimulus and what would they have looked like if a different remedial policy had been pursued?

SNR 06-11-2012 08:24 PM

Go shove your head up your ass

SNR 06-11-2012 08:24 PM

x50

Iz Zat Chew 06-11-2012 09:47 PM

Not too interested in what you do with your head, but I agree with the first respondent.

I feel much of the stimulus went into pockets rather into business recovery. A percentage of people feel the downturn was going to self heal itself due to business decisions made by those that reacted to the recession as they had in the past.

ClevelandBronco 06-12-2012 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iz Zat Chew (Post 8673705)
Not too interested in what you do with your head, but I agree with the first respondent.

I feel much of the stimulus went into pockets rather into business recovery. A percentage of people feel the downturn was going to self heal itself due to business decisions made by those that reacted to the recession as they had in the past.

patteeu is correct, as he just about always is, and so are you. There's no way we can know what would have happened if we had tried a different approach.

But as for the bolded part, yeah. Some of the money went into pockets, but a lot of it soon came out again and went into other pockets. It was spent, it was invested, it was used to shore up the foundations of the banks and businesses that got it, it was put to work in some way. You may have a problem with the people who owned the first set of pockets it went into, and I probably do as well, but the "money" (whatever the hell that really means now) didn't just get piled up in Scrooge McDuck's hoarding house.

As for the money that went to the banks, what the heck were they supposed to do? Just act as a redistribution system for all of it? They got a good portion of the "stimulus" because many of them were teetering on the brink of collapse already because of loose lending practices. What? They were supposed to just turn around and send it all out again to businesses and consumers that were even less able to pay the money back than they had been when this whole mess started? That certainly wouldn't have solved anything at all. It makes even less sense to lend to businesses that are going bust and people who are unemployed or underemployed that it made to lend to them when they were better off. To the extent that the banks held on to a large chunk of it, they were using it for business recovery. It's just that the business they were recovering was their own.

So some other businesses failed and some people lost their homes. Good. Some businesses are supposed to fail and some people are supposed to lose their homes. That was just a temporary return to something resembling sanity.

Maybe some more banks should have been allowed to lose their asses. Maybe a slew of those leeches should have been made to provide us with a perp parade. But to a large extent the banks that took the money used it to get back to a reasonable level of capitalization. That was priority number one in the wake of this crap, despite the P.R. pitch that they were going to use it to enable us to be carefree again. (Besides, even if more banks had gone bust, the replacement banks that would have risen from their ashes would have been run by the exact same pack of bastards that they replaced well, except for the ones that might have been doing time. The new banks wouldn't have been run by unemployed factory and retail workers, for Pete's sake. They would have been run by guys with experience in banking. God help us.)

Yeah, some of the money was used by that pack of thieves to party like it was 1999, but not that much of it in the grand scheme of things. And, quite frankly, I'm happy that someone was spending a little money. Businesses don't just conjure jobs to fulfill some divine inner yearning. Demand for goods and services causes businesses to create and/or preserve jobs. At least these bankster assholes know how to consume.

Now shove your head up your ass, Direckshun.

Comrade Crapski 06-12-2012 03:02 AM

Obamanomics central planning command economy has worked it's "magic"...

http://moonbattery.com/Food-Stamp-President.jpg

scho63 06-12-2012 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 8673294)
I have not the slightest idea how to copy and paste this piece into a thread here. So my apologies on that.

Fortunately, it's 20 slides you should be able to breeze through in a couple minutes.

http://www.moslereconomics.com/wp-co...f/stimulus.pdf

I'm sure the next 50 posts will tell me to shove my head up my ass. :D

It's a good "read" regardless. Thoughts welcome, as if I needed to ask.

:shake:

Some of these slides are factually incorrect-the net worth slide is false. Overall net worth of Americans has suffered incredibly from the housing downturn and is not higher now because of the stimulus.

Also, the unemployment rate is FALSE-it has been rigged to exclude workers who have stopped looking for work. The real rate is 10% or better.

There are some other slides that I am not sure where the data was pulled from.

Spending $5 trillion dollars to generate $1 trillion of productivity can not be considered a good investment or a success for any MBA graduate.

chiefzilla1501 06-12-2012 05:40 AM

As I've said before, the big thing I can't stand about Obama is that he spends an astronomical amount of money to create short upticks. He wants to hire more teachers, firefighters, and cops. Much as I respect those professions,do we need more of them? No. They aren't job creators. Construction jobs create jobs, but long term jobs? No. And so we fund a whole ton of these projects often on things we don't even need. In this slumping economy I can't even believe the massive amount of construction I've seen to widen street lanes.

You know what creates jobs? The next google. The next Facebook.

And Obama also acts like small businesses are so appreciative of tax cuts. Tax cuts mean nothing if the cost of complying with idiotic regulations balances that tax cut out.

Iz Zat Chew 06-12-2012 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8673984)
As I've said before, the big thing I can't stand about Obama is that he spends an astronomical amount of money to create short upticks. He wants to hire more teachers, firefighters, and cops. Much as I respect those professions,do we need more of them? No. They aren't job creators. Construction jobs create jobs, but long term jobs? No. And so we fund a whole ton of these projects often on things we don't even need. In this slumping economy I can't even believe the massive amount of construction I've seen to widen street lanes.

You know what creates jobs? The next google. The next Facebook.

And Obama also acts like small businesses are so appreciative of tax cuts. Tax cuts mean nothing if the cost of complying with idiotic regulations balances that tax cut out.

The bad thing about the next google or the next Facebook is that neither of them will produce anything. America used to be a productive nation, most of the factory jobs that used to be in America are now offshore. We have far too few kids that don't know what an honest day's work might be all about.

scho63 06-12-2012 05:59 AM

Here is a New York Times story that totally rebukes the slide that states net worth has risen since the stimulus

Family Net Worth Drops to Level of Early ’90s, Fed Says

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/family...185603451.html

scho63 06-12-2012 06:06 AM

Slide 1 GDP-the government spent 5 trillion and we have GDP that is LOWER than when the crash began. NEGATIVE

Slide 2 Unemployment-Higher than when GB in office and actually higher since Obama decides not to count about 8 million unemployed people who stopped looking. NEGATIVE

Slide 3 Non Farm payrolls-$5 trillion spent hiring gov wokrers, failed green jobs and the sudden spike is now going backwards and DECREASING. NEGATIVE

All other slides point to the fact that the stimulus created a FALSE short term burst driven by printing funny money.

Interest rates are too low, the dollar has been bashed but is now climbing since no more stimulus, oil is now reversing because US dollar strength, and once Obama is gone, things will get much better

Bewbies 06-12-2012 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iz Zat Chew (Post 8673988)
The bad thing about the next google or the next Facebook is that neither of them will produce anything. America used to be a productive nation, most of the factory jobs that used to be in America are now offshore. We have far too few kids that don't know what an honest day's work might be all about.

The only jobs that produce anything are factory jobs. No other business model in the world produces anything.

Idiot.

Iz Zat Chew 06-12-2012 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bewbies (Post 8674037)
The only jobs that produce anything are factory jobs. No other business model in the world produces anything.

Idiot.

Hey Dolt, have you missed the fact that a very large percentage of our factories have been sent to China, Vietnam, Malaysia, India, Mexico and elsewhere?

At this moment we consume as much food from outside the country as we do from inside the country.

SNR 06-12-2012 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iz Zat Chew (Post 8673988)
The bad thing about the next google or the next Facebook is that neither of them will produce anything. America used to be a productive nation, most of the factory jobs that used to be in America are now offshore. We have far too few kids that don't know what an honest day's work might be all about.

This is the dumbest post I've read on this forum in quite some time.


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