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-   -   Elections The (unintended) genious of the GOP debt ceiling "plan" (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=277485)

AustinChief 10-15-2013 03:08 PM

The (unintended) genious of the GOP debt ceiling "plan"
 
I highly doubt that the GOP planned any of this but I think the current situation has a good chance of working out heavily in their favor IF they accept some minor concessions from the Dems and move on.

Here is why...

If they had simply made this fight about spending and NOT tried to force the Dems to defund or delay Obamacare I honestly think the Dems would have put forth a delay themselves after finding out how far from finished the website truly was. As it stands the GOP's stance has made it impossible for the Dems to enact a delay without giving the GOP a massive "win."

I have stated all along that an Obamacare delay would backfire against the GOP by 1)pushing this massively unpopular issue back past the next election and 2)giving the Dems time to "fix" the system enough to make it more palatable.

The debt ceiling issue and govt shutdown will be long forgotten from the ephemeral public consciousness by the time the next election hits. What little memory remains will be of how the current govt doesn't work and we need to "throw the bums out." That kind of attitude hurts the Dems FAR worse than it does the GOP.

Barring more GOP screwups I honestly think we'll see a 50/50 or 51/49 split after 2014. (Of course 50/50 doesn't help the GOP much)

mlyonsd 10-15-2013 03:14 PM

The GOP needs to make sure they disengage before they partially own Obamacare.

Taco John 10-15-2013 03:14 PM

I think it will be more pronounced than you think. What really hasn't registered in the American consciousness right now is that every working person (that means pretty well everyone reading this) is going to be out anywhere from $100 to $300 (in some cases more) per paycheck. People aren't seeing this yet because most haven't renewed their premiums. But you can't take away $100 - $300 from people per paycheck overnight like this without shocking the system.

When this starts to hit, the Republicans will turn up the heat and start promoting their own alternative plan (http://rsc.scalise.house.gov/solutio...-betterway.htm), which is ultimately more palatable to the American tongue. Democrats will be left with little oxygen in the room if they're stuck defending Obamacare.

Taco John 10-15-2013 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyonsd (Post 10089092)
The GOP needs to make sure they disengage before they partially own Obamacare.

There's no chance of that happening. This whole strategy right now is about cementing the idea that the GOP is fighting tooth and nail against Obamacare so that when the premium increases hit, it falls at the feet of one party and one party only.

thecoffeeguy 10-15-2013 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief (Post 10089078)
I highly doubt that the GOP planned any of this but I think the current situation has a good chance of working out heavily in their favor IF they accept some minor concessions from the Dems and move on.

Here is why...

If they had simply made this fight about spending and NOT tried to force the Dems to defund or delay Obamacare I honestly think the Dems would have put forth a delay themselves after finding out how far from finished the website truly was. As it stands the GOP's stance has made it impossible for the Dems to enact a delay without giving the GOP a massive "win."

I have stated all along that an Obamacare delay would backfire against the GOP by 1)pushing this massively unpopular issue back past the next election and 2)giving the Dems time to "fix" the system enough to make it more palatable.

The debt ceiling issue and govt shutdown will be long forgotten from the ephemeral public consciousness by the time the next election hits. What little memory remains will be of how the current govt doesn't work and we need to "throw the bums out." That kind of attitude hurts the Dems FAR worse than it does the GOP.

Barring more GOP screwups I honestly think we'll see a 50/50 or 51/49 split after 2014. (Of course 50/50 doesn't help the GOP much)

Obama, AKA, cosmo will be along shortly here to tell you how wrong you are. :thumb:

Cleudus 10-15-2013 04:44 PM

How brainwashed are you guys? Americans deserve everything they get when we default, for becoming brainwashed media puppets. You guys deserve all of this. Fanatic tea party extremist are now considered moderate. You guys will create the world you let the media create in your head. And you deserve it all.

blaise 10-15-2013 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleudus (Post 10089323)
How brainwashed are you guys? Americans deserve everything they get when we default, for becoming brainwashed media puppets. You guys deserve all of this. Fanatic tea party extremist are now considered moderate. You guys will create the world you let the media create in your head. And you deserve it all.

Luckily there's people like you that have it all figured out.

Taco John 10-15-2013 05:00 PM

We're not going to default. That's ridiculous.

People need to quit saying that. Obama would have to willfully default, and no president would ever do that. Default doesn't happen out of happenstance. The President would have to actually choose to default. The amount of interest payments is a small figure and is under zero threat of not being paid - unless Obama chooses to.

Now welfare, on the other hand... That's not the same as a default, but that's where the cuts will most likely come from. Unless Obama chooses to prioritize it over defense. That's his call.

Warrior5 10-15-2013 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleudus (Post 10089323)
How brainwashed are you guys? Americans deserve everything they get when we default, for becoming brainwashed media puppets. You guys deserve all of this. Fanatic tea party extremist are now considered moderate. You guys will create the world you let the media create in your head. And you deserve it all.

You failed to mention Iscariot gold...

Taco John 10-15-2013 05:03 PM

The interest debt is represented on the far left of the red bar. The Green bar represents revenues taken in each month. There is no worry about defaulting. It's just a scare tactic that the balanced media has perpetrated to present this debate in a very unbiased and balanced scare tactic way:

<a href="http://i.imgur.com/ry357Qd.jpg">http://i.imgur.com/75Op7cy.jpg</a>
Click to enlarge

ClevelandBronco 10-15-2013 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleudus (Post 10089323)
How brainwashed are you guys? Americans deserve everything they get when we default, for becoming brainwashed media puppets. You guys deserve all of this. Fanatic tea party extremist are now considered moderate. You guys will create the world you let the media create in your head. And you deserve it all.

I agree that we deserve everything that comes with default (and I look forward to the time when it happens), but I doubt that we agree on the reasons we deserve it.

cosmo20002 10-15-2013 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco (Post 10089358)
I agree that we deserve everything that comes with default (and I look forward to the time when it happens), but I doubt that we agree on the reasons we deserve it.

This thinking makes absolutely no sense.

Donger 10-15-2013 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John (Post 10089353)
The amount of interest payments is a small figure

Isn't it horrible that $500 billion (or whatever it is now) is considered a small figure. Half a billion dollars just pissed away. Every year.

AustinChief 10-15-2013 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John (Post 10089357)
The interest debt is represented on the far left of the red bar. The Green bar represents revenues taken in each month. There is no worry about defaulting. It's just a scare tactic that the balanced media has perpetrated to present this debate in a very unbiased and balanced scare tactic way:

<a href="http://i.imgur.com/ry357Qd.jpg">http://i.imgur.com/75Op7cy.jpg</a>
Click to enlarge

THANK YOU for posting that. Maybe a simple graphic will help some of these dullards see what we have been trying to say this whole time.

The ONLY poster who has put forth a legit point in this regard is FD by stating the fact that the Treasury isn't setup to handle a situation like this. It would require some creative measures to adjust the system to handle this in time. Of course that is entirely on the executive branch.

Cleudus 10-15-2013 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John (Post 10089353)
We're not going to default. That's ridiculous.

People need to quit saying that. Obama would have to willfully default, and no president would ever do that. Default doesn't happen out of happenstance. The President would have to actually choose to default. The amount of interest payments is a small figure and is under zero threat of not being paid - unless Obama chooses to.

Now welfare, on the other hand... That's not the same as a default, but that's where the cuts will most likely come from. Unless Obama chooses to prioritize it over defense. That's his call.

You lack complete common sense. Democrats will not respond under any circumstance when the threat is give us what we want or we destroy the economy. They aren't going to back down on this stance. I will concede they will throw a dog a bone and give up insignificant concessions (example: getting rid of medical device tax, or creating income verification for ACA) because the House Republican party has painted themselves into a corner.

Now the republicans can't back don't because they will look weak. Anyone with half a brain knew how this would play out. Anyone with common sense could see this would just create gridlock. The democrats are not going to give in on principle to the major concessions the house gop are demanding. Now the obvious is happening, we are at the brink of default.

I find laughable that you believe that this is all just interest payments on our treasury bills. It shows you have no clue how far this goes.


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