Originally Posted by Saccopoo
Not a chance he's better in coverage than Van Noy. No way, no how.
And Van Noy is exceptional at making plays behind the line of scrimmage.
Shazier takes a lot (and I mean A LOT) of bad angles, shows marginal fundamentals and doesn't seem to have ultra high level instincts. I think he's a product of his athleticism at the college level versus football acumen, and, like I said, I believe that LaRon Landry/Taylor Mays is his upside. He's a tweener that might not have a position at the next level, much like Landry and Mays. He's not going to be Brian Urlacher.
Van Noy is second to Jake Matthews in terms of football instincts and fundamentals in this draft IMO. Exceptionally smooth, plays smart and understands the game. He's also very fast on the field. He's bigger, taller with more room on his frame than Shazier. (Van Noy was a lean 245 lbs. at 6'3" at the combine.)
It's fun to watch the highlights of Shazier as he's ferocious going after guys, but if you watch the whole game, he whiffs just as many times as he lays into guys. Van Noy never whiffs.
If you want recent comparisons in terms of measurables, combine results and on the field productivity, Van Noy is very similar to Luke Kuechly and Shazier is very similar to Daryl Washington.
I liked reading your take up until that last sentence. Van Noy couldn't hold Kuechly's jock strap, regardless of any combine numbers. Kuechly, Willis, Urlacher, Lewis, those are the types of guys that come out once in a while. Guys like Van Noy and Shazier come out every year. As a note, I'm a Buckeyes' fan, so I've seen every game Shazier has played.
Now where I disagree with the meat and taters of your argument is in the fact that you put Shazier down for utilizing his speed, but you don't knock Van Noy. Van Noy was not physical and the primary knock on him is that he needs to get stronger to take blocks on in the NFL. No player exemplifies your position of using speed at the college level to gain production better than Van Noy.
I wouldn't take either player before the middle of round 2. I'd rate both as mid-2 to mid 3. I like Van Noy a bunch but they are damn near identical players. You watch a guy like Lamin Barrow, who really isn't much different from Van Noy nor Shazier, and he's rated a 4th round prospect. I think if you want a real NFL comparison to both guys, you think LaVonte David of the Bucs and watch his Nebraska tape.
The one part I agree on is that Van Noy does appear to have room to grow in his frame, whereas Shazier at 237 is nearly maxed out. Van Noy is really thin and narrow everywhere. He looks like a guy that could get up into the 255 range and be just as effective. Not sure if he can/will, but he looks it.
As a final note, I do really like Van Noy, so I won't argue against wanting KC to draft the kid. Hell, I'd be jumping for joy if they could snag him in the 3rd somehow, but I just don't see him lasting that long, nor Shazier. Too many teams need OLBs this year.