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Originally Posted by InChiefsHell
The thing is, I've heard all your arguments as well. I frequent a website called protestwarrior.com and pretty much live in the religious forum. Like I said earlier, I typically don't back down from such discussions, but I usually don't get into them here on the Planet. Usually this place is just for my team.
But, hey, rules are meant to be broken.
In the Mark quote above, James and Joses (or Joseph) is mentioned as the brothers of Jesus. But in Matthew 27:56, it says:
Soooo...it's not Mary the mother of Jesus, but the mother of James and Joses, the same dudes that everyone says are Jesus' "brothers". Surely you can see that this doesn't make sense.
Also, when Jesus is on the cross and appoints John to take care of his Mother and all of that, it would make no sense to do that if he had surviving siblings. (Actually that scene has alot to do with Catholic Marian teachings, but that's for another discussion.) THis action would have been hugely insulting. It would be like you telling your best friend to take care of your mom when you have brothers and sisters to do that. That alone was the argument that first got me to thinking about this issue.
I'd have to look up the argument against the "firstborn" argument, I remember having that discussion before but off the top of my head I can't recall the argument.
There's alot of good websites that explain the Catholic position better than I can. The one I used above is called BibleChristianSociety.com but there is also CatholicAnswers.org. If nothing else, it explains clearly the Catholic postions on all of these issue that seem to be points of contention between us and Protestants (or non-denoms, how ever you want to be labled).
I challenge you to the same research that you challenge me on. It's not as easy to simply dismiss the Catholic position once you really become familiar with it...
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Being raised Catholic, going to all Catholic schools and attending church till I was around 26, allows me to be somewhat familiar with many positions. Although it didnt allow me to be too familiar with the bible since it was rarely used for teaching.
Back to the discussion.
One must use good discernment because there are many names used in the bible that are the same but definetly not the same person. For example John (the Baptist) and John the apostle. Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Jesus. Names like Judas and Joshua were very common names, in fact Jesus' name more properly translated should be Joshua.
The scripture you mention reads "Moreover, many women were there viewing from a distance, who had accompanied Jesus from Gal´iˇlee to minister to him;among whom was Mary Mag´daˇlene, also Mary the mother of James and Jo´ses, and the mother of the sons of Zeb´eˇdee." This scripture appears very clear to me, why is it you feel it must be referencing Jesus mother?
In the folowing verses in 61 its states "But Mary Mag´daˇlene and the other Mary continued there, sitting before the grave".
In Mark 15:40 it states"There were also women viewing from a distance, among them Mary Mag´daˇlene as well as Mary the mother of James the Less and of Jo´ses, and Saˇlo´me, who used to accompany him and minister to him when he was in Gal´iˇlee, and many other women who had come up together with him to Jerusalem."
So I cant see how anyone can properly conclude that this "other Mary" is Jesus mother?