Thread: Home and Auto Does anybody drive a 6-speed manual?
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:45 PM   #40
Exoter175 Exoter175 is offline
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
That's ****ing nuts. $1300 for 45 WHP? The Cobb AP alone can give you 30 WHP for $595. Throw in upgraded internals for the fuel pump ($350) so the tune can be more aggressive and you're easily pulling 45 more WHP for under a grand. Throw in a down pipe and CAI and add another 30 WHP.

Now, if you want to go farther, then yes it's going to cost you. A front mount intercooler (absolutely necessary to push the PSI up) will cost you $1100.

I never disputed the STi and Evo X don't come with more power. When you're looking at start up costs, the Speed3 is a hell of a deal. If I had more money then I would have went with an Evo X GSR. Unfortunately, I have things like bills, a family, and only one income for my family so I went with the Speed3.

I really wanted a G8 GXP but all the ones that were listed within in driving distance of me were priced at "My wife wants me to sell the car but I don't want to, so it's an absurdly high price".

Hopefully, GM will throw in a manual in the new version of the SS coming to the states (they aren't in the first production year), and in 3 years I'll be able to buy one as a toy to tear into.
WHP is wheel horse power, not advertised horsepower gains based on Horsepower at the crank. 45 WHP in a 2.3 liter FWD for 1300 all said and done, is actually fairly good considering all things such as wrench time and dyno time.

You don't seem to have a very good grasp on "making power", which I won't fault you for, but trust me when I say this, it isn't as simple as buying a part and installing it. Every single thing you change, affects your tune. If you decide to go with a program, reflash, or standalone, it needs to be tuned, anytime the weather drops 14 degrees or the humidity rises or falls 15% from the status of when you tuned, your tune is off. Dyno time costs money, tuning time costs money. If you take it to get tuned, you're talking 300+ for a "decent" session, and about 600ish for a day of fine tuning including drivability tuning. That doesn't even include the parts you bought for the car.

Now, you can "street tune", but in order to do that, you need to buy a wideband O2 sensor and unit (200 bucks) and a bung welded into the piping of your exhaust (about 45 bucks) with a cap for when the wideband isn't in there. Then you need to be able to datalog the information with a computer (100-150 on craigslist). Again, that doesn't include the cost of the part.

There are those out there that will tell you that you can do a "basic tune" or a "mail in tune", but those aren't accurate, and accurate tunes are where you make power and retain reliability.

The MS3 isn't anything different than any other turbo 4 cylinder. In order to make power you need to open up the exhaust from the turbo back, you need to upgrade your fuel pump and/or injectors, and you're likely going to turn the boost up, so you need to be able to adjust timing and AFR based on those three aspects.

Now as far as your "internals for the fuel pump" goes, there is no such thing. And as far as needing a front mount to increase your PSI, there is no such need.

You can run an infinite amount of PSI through a top mount, side mount, or front mount. The reason you upgrade to the front mount is based on the size and depth of the intercooler and its efficiency in cooling the air.

Because you have a top mount intercooler, you are subject to heat dissipation from the engine directly below it, as well as ambient air temperatures literally 30+ degrees hotter on an 80 degree day. The upgrade to a front mount has nothing to do with the pressure going through, rather, being able to cool the charge further than you would be able to with a confined top mount. Now, the upgrade to the piping on the other hand, is where the PSI argument comes from.

However, again, that PSI argument has nothing to do with the upgrade as you could hit 80 PSI on a top mount and on a front mount. The issue, however, is volume. Increasing a factory top mount from 1 7/8ths inch to 2 1/2 inches is going to allow a much larger volume of air to flow through the system at the same boost level. You can't really get that volume from the top mount due to space, trust me, ran into the same issue on the WRXs, despite Perrin and TurboXS making great top mount upgrades for them.

However, there is a downside to the front mount upgrade, that issue being the lag you'll be adding to the car. It'll take more RPMs for the motor to reach full boost due to the increase in diameter as well as the increase in travel from a top mount to a front mount and the piping. Generally we're looking at about 300 rpms difference in hitting boost, and achieving full boost. It'll also put a bit more strain on the turbo charger because with the increased size of the intercooler and likely depth and dimensions of it, you'll incur what is called "Boost drop". Which is, the amount of PSI drop that the intercooler has at full boost based on what the inlet pressure is of the intercooler, and the outlet of the intercooler, after it goes through the tube and fin or bar and plate design. Generally, we're talking about .7-1.8 PSI drop INCREASE from a top mount to a front mount. So, instead of running say 20PSI outlet pressure on a top mount with about 21.2 inlet pressure, you're going to have to run nearly 23 PSI inlet pressure to achieve the same 20 PSI outlet pressure.

As far as an evo x gsr, I'd pass and probably would have passed on an MS3 to get an Evo9 base, then again, I dislike Evo's and would have gone with a 2004-2006ish STI and had the best of everything for the same price, just older and slightly more mileage, which can be a determining factor for most.

As far as the G8 GXP goes, very fun car, little bit overpriced for what it is IMO. And with Pontiac getting the axe, who knows what they ultimately do with it that chassis.

It was a great design that competed on a performance level with the M3, M5, and M6 sedan variants, but wasn't even remotely close to the level of luxury and craftsmanship, which is what GM is notorious for. They'll give you the performance of the competitor, at the sacrifice of luxury and craftsmanship. Like the Camaro, Corvette, G8 GXP, etc.
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