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Old 12-04-2012, 03:55 PM   #9198
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is offline
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Like hell it didn't! I don't know of any sane Royals fan that wasn't absoutely shocked with that deal... We all knew at the time Frenchy just had the year of his career, and it was still simply "above average" at the plate (but very good in the outfield). You don't throw that much money at an obvious aberration. The contract was appalling at the time.

As far as trades:

JP Howell for Gathright. "wtf?"
Howell had off-field problems and it was clear he wouldn't succeed as a starter. Gathright was still very favorably viewed in the industry. I worked at SN at the time. Entire baseball team there (which I was part of) loved the deal.

MacDougal for Lumsden and Cortes... still never understood why that was done.
Because MacDougal wasn't that good to begin with and had arm issues. Meh.

Ordalis Perez trade.
The Royals gave up Elmer Dessens in this deal. Meh.
Jeremy Affeldt and Denny Bautista for Shealy and Dohman... JESUS CHRIST
THe Royals traded a bullpen guy for a guy coming off back to back near 1000 OPS seasons in Shealy. Good move at the time.
Keppinger for Haltiwanger
This is a bad one. Keppinger has been a useful util guy ever since
Nunez for Jacobs - that was another where everyone but Dayton saw Jacobs for what he was.
The Royals traded an OK reliever for a guy with power potential. Yes, Jacobs had flaws. But most also expected him to hit 30-35 HR in full time action. Would look worse if Kila Ka'ahuie wasn't the pile of shit the org thought he was
Octavio Dotel for Kyle Davies
1/2 season of a reliever who be a setup man isn't going to net much. A post-hype prospect with upside. This deal is made worse by stubbornly sticking with Davies too long, but it just as easily could have been a James McDonald situation.
Betancourt - Nuff said
Betancourt was bad, but still better than TPJ, and the Royals wouldn't have done better on the open market. Also, the Royals gave up nothing in this deal. So, meh.
Alberto Callaspo for nothing
The Royals got Will Smith in this deal, who still could be a decent back-end starter. Callaspo, meanwhile, has regressed significantly at the plate while growing more expensive. Good deal.
DeJesus for Mazarro\Marks
Mazzero stinks (and was just turned into a few lottery tickets), but Marks has made decent progress and, like Smith, be a solid 4th/5th starter. This would have been DeJesus for Josh Reddick if he hadn't had the freak injury, BTW...
Teahen who everyone loved for Getz, who everyone hates. Good one.
I didn't love Mark Teahen. I hated him, in fact. And he was bad. So, meh.

Betemit for 2 nothings
They got little for him, but he didn't have much value.
Aviles for 2 nothings
Aviles is not good. And this deal was liked at the time
Cabrera for Verdugo (just designated for assignment) and Sanchez... I liked the trade at the time. But it still ended Horrrrrible for the R's.
Doesn't change the fact it was a good move at the time. Hindsight doesn't change the realities of the moment when it happened.

Let's list the trades that have worked out for the R's.

Billy Buckner for Alberto Callaspo. That worked out okay, we got a cup of coffee use out of Callaspo as a utility player, but gave up a good prospect at the time for him... we didn't get fleeced so... I guess? But he ruined it by turning around and shipping Callaspo off for nothing.
The Royals got a few good, cheap years out of Callaspo and then moved him before he got expensive - and before he declined.
Jorge de la rosa for Ramon Ramirez.. then flipped Ramirez a year later for Coco. Not bad for either team.

Farnsworth and Ankiel for Tim Collins. We gave up a productive Reliever and a half-way decent bench player for a Reliever prospect. We had no idea he was going to be this good, but it has definitely worked out well. Unfortunately, we simply got a reliever out of this.

$$$ for Felipe Paulino. Great find... the guy has shown promise off the scrp heap if he can be healthy. unfortunately, he's only done it for small portions within two seasons. I love Felipe and hope he works out.

Zack Greinke and Yuni for Escobar, Jeffress, Cain and Odorizzi. Jeffress is gone, jury is out on Cain, Escobar is our every day SS and We have a pitching prospect that the jury is out on. At this point we basically gave up the Cy Young award winner for our SS.. I "like" the deal, but I'm not enamoured with it like a lot of people were. But it blows away all of Dayton's other moves, without a doubt. He got a good young major league player that is producing for us RIGHT NOW. It just took him 50 trades and a Cy Young piece to get it right.

Yes I'm embelishing some, but only some...
My thoughts above.

I would also add:

Ambiorix Burgos for Brian Bannister. The Royals got a few quality, cheap seasons out of Banny. The Mets got extradition papers.

Anyway, you're not going to find many amazing trades on a GM's record when so little of worth has been sent AWAY from the team you're analyzing.

This is why I say Moore gets too much criticism for his trade history. It's really not bad, considering that most of his trades involve moving low-value guys.

BTW: My overall point is not that Dayton Moore is "Awesome." It's more that there are a lot of other things that deserve criticism BEFORE his trade history. Notably:

1) Stubborn belief in players long past the point of proven failure (Davies, Hochevar, Gload, etc)
2) Poor personnel choices (apparently) for high minors pitching development
3) 2010 draft (this one is looking pretty rough)
4) Refusal to look past traditional baseball stats/thought processes. Lack of flexibility in thought.
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