Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir_Kyrilytch
Anyone else familiar with Monte Cristo? Raider Crusader I thought you've read this bad boy! You should if you haven't. Sure it's long but you gotta look at it like you would a TV Series like Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones before it turned terrible. It's good entertainment that lasts a long time.
Now Mr. hammersticks, I have a complaint. It's minor enough but through 300 pages I think it sticks: Characterization. What can we really say about Dantés, about what kind of person he is, what his personality is like? We don't get that much. Maybe it's a limitation on 3rd person narration, but if you were describing Dantés to someone, could you say much about him?
We know just some basic stuff:
-highly competent sailor
-good natured, stand up guy
-Caring guy and loves his fiancee
-too trusting; naive. Assumes the best of people even when he shouldn't
-Fairly smart, the way he learned so much from his fellow prisoner and did all that undiscovered tunneling.
That's all we really get in these first 300 pages, and then when it flashes forward in time, some of that has totally changed. He's now cunning, ruthless, playing the long game, staying a step ahead of everyone. Feels like a totally different character when he's in Sinbad the Sailor mode than he was before.
Faulkner and Dostoevsky and even Hemingway put you into the head of their characters. They felt like real, often flawed, people. Dante's, far less so.
It was Shelby Foote that said that even a high school sophomore can write a surprisingly good description of a sunset, but the 2nd and 3rd levels of great fiction that a novelist must achieve are (1) being able to write characters that can stand up on their own two feet and (3) plot. Foote himself had characters that met that bar and I recommend checking him out.
I posit that Dumas had plot down really well, which is what makes this novel a classic. The suspense, the action, all on point. And his prose was elegant to the point that few literary figures could compare (only the best). I like all the historical references he throws in there - dude was very educated and well-researched. But I grade him down a little bit cause I don't think Dantés has great characterization.
My favorite character is M. Noiterer and I like Villefort, despite being the antagonist. Both those characters have some complexity and some mystery to them.
Do you agree or no about the characterization of Dante's?
Also I was talking to a coworker and she was telling me about her daughter being in ballet, a production of the Nutcracker. I said I can't claim to be much into ballet but I know Tchaikovsky composed that and Tchaikovsky is absolutely top notch. Then I googled to prove it and found that Dumas himself adapted the Nutcracker; basically he wrote it. Not sure what his source material was for the adaptation but some trivia for ya - he wrote Monte Cristo, he wrote 3 Musketeers, and he wrote the most famous ballet I can think of too! Talented cat.
More Monte Cristo discussion is needed!
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Wow, my apologies Vlad, don't know how I missed this! I agree that Dostoevsky did a better job of putting you inside the head of his characters. That's what I loved so much about Crime and Punishment. I felt like I was inside the head of Raskolnikov as the guilt from his crime drove him insane. It was fascinating, and there were times when I found it next to impossible to put the book down.
In terms of Monte Cristo specific to Dantés - at the beginning of the novel he's portrayed as a young, ambitious, and honest sailor who is well-liked by his colleagues and superiors. Dumas described him as being intelligent, brave, and loyal, and known for his strong sense of justice and morality. And yes, as you say, he's definitely naive and too trusting. Your comment about him not really being innocent was a perspective I had never really considered, but a very valid one based on the reasons you provided. I had never considered him as anything but naive and too trusting when it came to picking up the package and delivering it. You made me think, and look at it from an entirely new perspective!
Obviously, after Dantés was betrayed and imprisoned, he underwent a significant transformation. He became totally disillusioned with society and humanity, and developed a deep sense of bitterness and anger towards those who wronged him. He becomes obsessed with revenge and spent years plotting and scheming to exact his revenge on those who wronged him. I don't want to spoil it for you, but one of the reasons I loved Monte Cristo so much is that Dantés (or the Count) obviously had the financial means and the brainpower to immediately destroy all of those who wronged him, but instead he prolonged his vengeance to the point of brutally torturing his enemies. Way worse than just immediately killing them. His vengeance was completely humiliating and soul-crushing to his enemies!
But despite his desire for soul-crushing vengeance, and the extraordinary lengths he went to in order to exact it, Dantés - or the Count by this time - was obviously still a very charismatic and highly intelligent man who was able to win the respect and admiration of everyone around him. The movie actually does a great job portraying this. He adopted various personas and disguises convincingly, and he became very skilled at manipulating people and situations to achieve the vengeance that consumed him.
I'd say his personality is revealed by his thoughts and actions. He's a complex and nuanced guy. He has both admirable and questionable personality traits. He is driven by a strong sense of justice and a desire to right the wrongs that were done to him, but he is also willing to go to great lengths to achieve his goals, including using deception, manipulation, and even violence.
It's basically the tale of two people because of the changes he undergoes throughout the novel. He is intelligent, charismatic, and driven, but also bitter, vengeful, and willing to do whatever it takes to achieve his goals.