Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho
All right, Chiefsplanet Cardinals fans. I respect the opinions of this contingent of Cardinals fans. Lot of good, hardcore baseball minds in the room (Or thread, whatever).
I have recently seen Cardinals fans on another message board freak the f*** out on a few things and want to get this group's take.
1) Would Alex Gordon start for the Cardinals? This was a very hotly contested point. I'm not sure what team or fanbase WOULDN'T want to find a spot for a guy on pace to hit .330/.370/.500, with 100 R and 100 RBI in a shit-tastic lineup, but apparently the group of Cards fans I was talking to would not. I pointed out Gordon's positional versatility - his ability to play LF, RF or 3B - and that he has been one of the best all-around players in baseball over the past 2.25 seasons.
The debate quickly turned into Holliday vs Gordon, though. (I know where Frazod would weigh in). Even there, the (factual) statement that the gap offensively has closed greatly as Gordon began to figure things out and as Holliday started to decline seemed to insult many, who wanted to point to career stats as the reason Holliday would start NOW.
Thoughts?
2) Wainwright and Shields. This one is fresh. Cardinals fans were talking about Wainwright being "obviously" head and shoulders above Shields. When recent performances - again, each guy's past three years, not a one-year sample size - were compared and it was pointed out that they have been nearly identical pitchers, people flipped out.
Is the suggestion that James Shields and Adam Wainwright are both top 20 pitchers, slotting somewhere in the tier below the Verlander/Kershaw/King Felix/etc. elite group really that crazy or insulting?
3) Billy Butler has a shot at 3000 hits. Someone commented they were shocked Butler already had 1000 MLB hits. Someone else said he had a shot at 3000 hits. Outrage ensued. Being honest, I think we can all say it's unlikely Butler ages extremely well. But he also has been an incredibly durable player and consistent hitter. He would need 12 more seasons in which he averages 167 hits to get to the mark (or about 11 more at his current career hits average). The odds are not great - mostly because that would mean Butler would have to play without injury and at a similarly high level well into his mid-to-late 30s - but there is a SHOT.
There have been a few more (there was an uproar when someone said a year or so ago that they hoped Sal Perez could be as good as Molina, that I still don't get), but those are the main ones.
Interested in reactions of Cardinals fans I know and respect. Thanks, guys.
|
1. How long have we had Gordon? If the Cardinals had Gordon they wouldn't have signed Beltran before the 2012 season. He's a better hitter than Freese, but from what I remember he was an atrocious third baseman. I can't imagine that they wouldn't find a place to plug him in, even if it was like the way they used Pujols as a rookie: 1B, 3B, LF, RF.
2. Wainwright's last three full seasons:
5.3, 5.6, 4.0 (coming off TJ)
Shields' last three full seasons:
1.7, 4.5, 3.9
This season: WW: 3.0, JS: 1.8
Wainwright's xFIP is also better as well.
Wainwright also has one of the best 2-3 pitches in baseball that he can lean on in a desperate situation. Shields doesn't have that.
I don't view them in the same class at all.
3. No. Bad bodied DHs don't age well. It's just that simple.