[KC native]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

No offense here, but I'm going to guess that I have a lot more "experience" in the modification side of things on a larger spectrum of cars than you have. I know what the MS3 club is about, I hang out with the KC group quite a bit out doing the racing thing, I know what a lot of them can do and have been told many times about what "opening up" an MS3 can do. However, most of them don't seem to grasp the idea that EVERY car ever made is on that same point. EVERY car can "open up" because of how detuned for emissions these cars are, especially the turbo cars.

Yes, they make very good power opened up, but how are you comparing it? Based on a WHP percentage of stock versus modded?

I can make more power for the money mod vs. mod with an STI than you can with an MS3. It is limited, the motor itself is limited by comparison.

If you keep it specifically to bolt on modifications, the MS3 is a very proven WHP production car, it, however, does not surpass the Evo or the STI in that argument. They trump the MS3 all day long in terms of raw power for the budget.

I'm also saying this compared to a 2006 STI which is about the 17-20k area with anywhere from 40-70k miles. A 2 year old STI is still in the 30+ and if I'm not mistaken, the MS3's are around 23-26k new. And I'm specifically using the gen 2 MS3 as the comparison, not the Gen 1.

In terms of power, I've taken a lightly modded 2 valve mustang GT and beaten quite a few heavily modded Gen2 MS3's. Why? Traction primarily. They pull hard up top because by comparison, they have more power than I do in my 2 valve, but I have a RWD v8 with a solid axle, so I'll put 2-3 cars on them instantly out of the hole on all season radials, and then just cruise to victory. From a roll, They put about a half a car, or a car on me from 45 mph to 110MPH.

In my eyes, the MS3 is more comparable to the SRT4 than any car out there, and in my opinion, a much better option than an SRT4.

However, all of that said, I disagree with you heavily on the argument that the community and mods are plentiful for the MS3's right now. It is a new car, there is years of R&D left to do on them before the market gets plentiful.

Understand for a moment, that I've modded Mustangs, Camaros, Hondas, DSM's, etc. Those markets are the standard of "plentiful", not the MS3 community, or even the MS community as a whole. It is a very new, very infantile market at the moment.

I hear guys talking about paying 1300 dollars for 45 WHP, where 1300 dollars in a 91 Eclipse GSX equates to about 145 WHP, or about 230 WHP in a terminator cobra.

That's ****ing nuts. $1300 for 45 WHP? The Cobb AP alone can give you 30 WHP for $595. Throw in upgraded internals for the fuel pump ($350) so the tune can be more aggressive and you're easily pulling 45 more WHP for under a grand. Throw in a down pipe and CAI and add another 30 WHP.

Now, if you want to go farther, then yes it's going to cost you. A front mount intercooler (absolutely necessary to push the PSI up) will cost you $1100.

I never disputed the STi and Evo X don't come with more power. When you're looking at start up costs, the Speed3 is a hell of a deal. If I had more money then I would have went with an Evo X GSR. Unfortunately, I have things like bills, a family, and only one income for my family so I went with the Speed3.

I really wanted a G8 GXP but all the ones that were listed within in driving distance of me were priced at "My wife wants me to sell the car but I don't want to, so it's an absurdly high price".

Hopefully, GM will throw in a manual in the new version of the SS coming to the states (they aren't in the first production year), and in 3 years I'll be able to buy one as a toy to tear into.