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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho
Fair enough on 'untradeable.' You're right ... we're not going to see Dayton Moore do something as astronomically stupid as trading a blue-chip prospect for a mediocre or slightly above-average player. No Zambrano for Kazmir trades here.
Selman or Brickhouse would be throw-ins for Philadelphia in an Utley deal. Neither would be the headliner. They would be lottery ticket pieces that help you get to the deal (See: Patrick Leonard in the Shields/Myers deal).
Look at what Philadelphia got in return for a very similar player in terms of value just a year ago. The Pence deal can be used at least for a ballpark figure on what Utley would cost. Yeah, Utley is a better player, but he's also older and riskier because of his health issue (and controlled for one full season less).
The catcher the Phillies got, Tommy Joseph, is the biggest piece. He's never sniffed a top 100/101 list, and he slots somewhere around 5 in the Phillies prospect rankings (which is not hard to do). He'd MAYBE be a top 15 guy in the Royals system.
The pitcher, Seth Rosin, is also someone who never has sniffed a top 100/101/whatever.
If the Phillies want a limited upside guy who is close, the Royals have plenty of those (Gio, Colon could be pieces of a deal). Heck, even Chris Dwyer - who has cut his career walk rate of 4.5 by 50 percent this year - would be a useful piece of a deal.
The key piece or exciting piece of the deal would have to be a lower minors guys. Someone like Calixte or Cuthbert or Bonifacio.
The Royals certainly have tradeable pieces, and more than enough to make a reasonable deal for Utley (whose value you're severely overrating).
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Upon reading your further explanation I see your points and they make sense. The Pence point is a fair one. I thought thy at was a dumb deal when they made it and their OF has been terrible without his bat. If they didn't plan to keep Victorino why trade Pence? Maybe for salary but again they are flush. I'd like to toss Getz as much as anyone although its a short term move that forces Gio into the lineup next year. Which may be good.