Originally Posted by Saccopoo
Okay, now that Da Face has confirmed that you are not Blackbob or Knowmo, I'll try to be a bit more reasonable in my responses.
Mingo, while impressive with his drive and ability to play through the whistle, is raw. I like the guy, but you could be getting a JPP or an Aaron Maybin with him. That's not a #1 overall pick. That's a huge boom/bust pick you make if you have a team that's solid and you can afford such a pick. And his numbers through his career are not representative of a guy who is a sure fire #1 pick.
Jordan is almost the same guy as Mingo. Raw, athletic and started to disappear when he became the focal point of the defense in 2012. His stats dropped and he wasn't the disruptive force he was in 2011. Again, not a guy you spend the #1 pick on. They are not Von Miller, and even he didn't go #1.
Moore is a tweener that is either going to have to add weight or drop it to play either end or LB in either scheme. He's most likely a 43 DE. However, he doesn't have superb instincts and ends up chasing plays rather than creating them.
Finally, Geno is definitely better at his position than Mingo, Jordan and Moore are at theirs. They are good players, but none of them have put up consistent production that would merit even a top ten pick.
The only guy who has is Jones, and he doesn't have elite speed and has a degenerative neck injury that is going to be a huge concern for any team looking at drafting him.
I live in Utah, and go to the Utah games.
Starlite is a very good player, but he's not the disruptive, upfield force that guys like Suh, McCoy, Dorsey and the like were at the same stage. He's immensely strong and can absolutely hold a gap like crazy. He's a 34 or 43 NT in the mold of a Vince Wilfork. And I don't know if he's that good, but that is his absolute ceiling. I'd even argue that John Hankins of Ohio State is better due to more versatility. Both are near identical players.
And the Chiefs just spent the #11 pick on basically the same type of player in Dontari Poe last season. There is not a chance in hell that he's going to the Chiefs #1, nor is he worth the #1 pick.
Easily. Jones has been a first team All-American at three different positions on the line and he was best as a guard as a sophomore (even better than his Outland Trophy winning performance at left tackle as a junior). The guy is a beast and showed as much by playing in a National Championship game on a foot that's going to require lisfranc surgery. Warmack is a good player, but he isn't as good as Jones from the same team and he isn't on the same level as DeCastro or Hudson the two previous years. He's nowhere close to being the best player in the draft and definitely not worth the #1 pick even before you factor in the fact that he plays the guard position. Even if I knew Larry Allen was going to be THE Larry Allen or Will Shield to be THE Will Shields, you still don't pick that guy top ten. It's a ****ing guard. It's a worse argument than trying to tell people that Manti Te'o is worth the #1 pick.
And that's why Joeckel isn't worth a #1. He's the best OT prospect in this class, theoretically, but it's a weak class and he's not on the same level as previous top players at his position. Add to that that he's going to require intensive retraining due to the system and the QB he's had to work with.
And he's still not as good at his position as Geno has been at his.
Geno's body of work is stellar. That he didn't win more his senior year is most definitely not on him due to a defensive unit that gave up an average of 47.6 points per game in their six losses. Geno did all he could and carried that team. And he's got a BCS MVP game under his belt from his junior season. The stats are identical/better than both Luck and Griffin, the two "superstar, can't miss prospects" from last year. And the amazing thing is that Geno's stats against Top 25 teams are even better than what he put up against the rest. He's got all the tools. Prototype size. Experience.
The only thing that Geno is going up against in terms of not being the consensus #1 in this draft is Luck, Griffin and Wilson and the success they had in the NFL this season. He's a better prospect than every QB that has gone in the top ten in the past 10 years other than a guy named Luck. Tell me that Tannehill, Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Bradford, Stafford, Ryan, Russell, Young, Leinhardt, Sanchez, or Smith are a better pro prospect coming out, had better tools and a better career than Geno Smith at the same stage. They aren't. And no one had problems with those guys getting picked in the top ten or even #1 overall. Yet Geno as the #1 overall is bringing out the uneducated masses from the woodwork like a plague of silverfish.
However, there seems to be a general consensus around here with the more astute posters that Geno is the guy. I've never seen that before either.
I think I'm going with Group #2 on this one versus the horde of silverfish.
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