The age-old saying that "the customer is always right" may soon be put out to pasture - Page 6

|Zach| · 01-20-2007, 04:01 PM

I like this move...some of the actions of people at retail stores is disgusting.

http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/0..._consumers.htm

The age-old saying that "the customer is always right" may soon be put out to pasture. Why? Increasing numbers of stores are cracking down on what they call "devil" shoppers -- customers whose buying and returning practices, some legit, may actually cause the store to lose money -- and the stores believe they're better off without them.

Best Buy stores have gotten so fed up with their "devil" shoppers -- a group they say makes up 20 percent of their customer base -- that they're actively trying to eliminate them from their stores. These shoppers (see below for a description of some of their tactics) account for as many as one-fifth of Best Buy's 500 million customer visits each year, and according to Best Buy CEO Brad Anderson, "They can wreak enormous economic havoc."

So now Best Buy is fighting back. They've started training their employees to identify "angel" shoppers -- the ones who buy highly priced items like HDTVs or just-released DVDs without waiting for a markdown -- and cater to them while "blacklisting" the devil shoppers. The staff uses a quick interview of sorts to identify the different types, which they internally call:

* Barrys: High-income men who like action movies and cameras
*Jills: Suburban moms who want to help their families
*Buzzes: Male technology fans who want the latest high-tech gadgets

Other practices Best Buy has put into play include adding a 15 percent restocking fee and selling restocked items over the Internet as opposed to in stores.

But Best Buy is not alone. Some stores will go so far as to remove "bad" customers from their promotions mailing list or put them on long holds if they call stores with too many questions and no intent to buy. And stores like Express, KB Toys, the Sports Authority, Staples and Guess have all adopted a new technology called the Return Exchange to monitor customers' buying habits.

When a purchase is made, the device records the consumer's name, address, age and transaction details and sends it to The Return Exchange's database. The company says the device is meant to stop shoplifters and other fraud-doers, but it doesn't stop there. Each store inputs certain criteria, such as a high number of returns or a dollar amount on returns, after which a customer's return can be denied.

Said retail consultant King Rogers, retail stores lose some $16 billion a year because of fraud. "Consumers are going to find more stores with tighter, more restrictive return policies than they found last year. When you look at the economics of it, $16 billion a year in losses, they have to tighten up," he said.

But others are worried that consumers will get the short end of the deal.

"I'm concerned about the 99 percent of consumers who are not abusing the system," said Edgar Dworsky, founder of ConsumerWorld.org, an Internet public service site. "It's the wrong size, the wrong color, the mother bought clothing for kids who didn't want it."

Already the Federal Trade Commission has been asked to investigate the legality of stores monitoring and denying customers' returns, and Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) proposed legislation to require stores that do limit returns to warn shoppers of the practice.

-Shopper Tactics That Might Send You to the "Blacklist"

The following practices are among the most common and most offensive in the eyes of retailers. If you commonly engage in any of these practices, you may soon find that your next return is denied or your name has been added to a store's "blacklist" of bad customers.

*Buying a product, taking advantage of the product rebate, then returning the product for a refund.
*Buying clothing or another item, wearing it (or using it) once, then returning it (the classic example is the evening gown that's worn with tags on for a night, then returned).
*Buying an item and returning it with the intent of buying it at the reduced "open-box" price
*Buying clothing or another item with the intent of returning it later and re-buying it at a markdown price.
*Buying a product at a discount, such as from the store's selection of "loss leaders," (low-priced products stores lose money on that are designed to attract customers) then reselling it on eBay for a premium price.
*Finding rock-bottom prices on Web sites, then challenging stores to pay up on their lowest price guarantees.
*Taking up an employee's time to ask questions about a significant purchase with the intent to buy it elsewhere.

Most consumers do have good intentions at heart and make returns for legitimate reasons. Retailers are aware of this and wary of portraying a too-tough image to customers. Said Anderson, it's a fine balance to ward of bad customers without turning away the good ones.

"The most dangerous image I can think of is a retailer that wants to fire customers," he says.

Chief Roundup · 01-20-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by (Zach)

*Buying a product at a discount, such as from the store's selection of "loss leaders," (low-priced products stores lose money on that are designed to attract customers) then reselling it on eBay for a premium price.

This is total BS.

How in the hell do they plan on linking your purchase from a retail store to your sell online?

BucEyedPea · 01-20-2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Towne

I have owned small businesses all my adult life and I have what I call my 2% rule. There are 2% of your customers that you do not want. They cause 25% of your customer problems. Let your competitor spend his time trying to please them. Just make sure you identify the 2% correctly.

That so true! They will actually cost you more money. I even find when I offer to do something for free, just to get PR, that those accounts are the worst ones to please. The cheapest one's who won't pay, try to nickle& dime how long you spent on something etc. etc. I just use a flat rate to avoid that. They have no right saying, all you did was push a button. It took me four years of school, constantly learning updates and 15 years experience to know what button to push.

Thig Lyfe · 01-20-2007, 09:04 PM

Customers suck.

**gblowfish** · 01-20-2007, 09:39 PM

I read throught this thread and found it quite interesting. I've been an account service rep for 20 years, and have worked with literally thousands of customers over the years. As a consumer, I've bought lots of stuff on-line, done EBay (while you could still get an actual bargain on EBay) and bought from brick and mortars. Some general observations:

1) About the Brick and Mortar store vs. buying on the web: Yes, if you look hard enough, you can always find an item dirt cheap on the web. But lots of things can happen between you clicking on the item to buy it, and getting it home and using it. Items can be "gray market", that is to say, blemished, re-furbed or otherwise second hand stuff being sold as new. This happens a lot with electronics, musical instruments, etc. Or items can appear to be the same, but the item on the web may be an older model than what the Brick and Mortar store has. They may even have the same part or serial number, but actually be different.

2) Some web based sellers have outrageous re-stocking fees, and God help you if the product is defective or needs service during warranty period. At least with your neighborhood store, most of them will work with you to make sure the equipment works, and if it breaks under warranty, will legitimately help you find qualified service.

3) It's difficult for brick and mortars to price match internet because of the "gray market." Also, does the price you want matched include shipping? Sometime on-line retailers mark up their shipping by 25-30% and gig you there to make up on the difference. Some offer free shipping. Almost all have to charge you sales tax, because they are doing business with you in your state.

4) You can't expect your local store to always be able to match or beat the lowest price you can find on the net. Some things just cost more in the local store. What price is service, advice about the right product to buy, and supporting your local economy, worth to you?

5) I've always found that the customers that bitch the most, fight tooth and nail over every little penny, essentially want the job done yesterday for nothing, are always the ones that are slow payers or crooks. I can smell trouble coming lots of times. You have to look at your customers like a bell curve. You'll have a few customers who spend a lot, are a joy to work with, trust you completely, and sustain your business. You'll always have a few who are total douchebags, look for any opportunity to take advantage of you, are totally untrustworthy and major pains in the ass. Everyone else will be somewhere in between the two extremes.

6) When I sense I have a douchebag on the line, "who can get product X from my competitor Y at Z% less money," I always think to myself "Then why are you on the phone with me? Buy it from competitor Y and leave me the Hell alone!" Usually they're on the phone with me because competitor Y doesn't have the item in stock, or there's some other restrictions or limits on getting that actual price. Maybe a rebate is involved, or they want to use a price they can choke out of me as a hammer to use on competitor Y to lower his price.

For the most part I love working with customers. Some can be a real challenge, and you always have a few come along that are wastes of flesh.

Valiant · 01-20-2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI

But even policies should not be set in stone. For instance, Circuit City has a 15% restocking fee on their returns. We purchased a digital camera for Christmas. It was a Polaroid and it was crap. The camera took terrible pictures because something was wrong with the flash. On return, the store did not have the item anymore and wanted to refund me the money at 100% only if I got a CC gift card or purchased something else.

Well the camera was blister packaged and the ONLY way to know it was defective or crap was to OPEN the package. The manager was a complete and total asshole. I explained to him that him keeping my $15.00 was going to cause me to stop shopping there and that he shouldn't treat me that way because over the past year we had spent over $1500 dollars at CC including a computer purchased just weeks before.

He didn't care. I explained to him that I was in the market to purchase a different digital camera, one at least three times as expensive, and that it wouldn't be from CC because of his attitude. He didn't give a shit so I left.

I wrote a letter explaining the situation to their corporate HQs. They refunded me the money. I didn't purchase the camera from them but from Amazon.com for over $130 cheaper than what they were selling it. I don't know if I'll buy from CC ever again because their management was so unprofessional even though their corporate office did correct the problem.

Any company that would fight over $15 with a customer that has spent $1500 in the past year is a company that has a very bad business sense and ultimately is not one I want to do business with.

So the management or staff did not offer to wave the restocking fee if you bought a different camera?? Or you did not want to buy another camera from them, Then you should have been charged the restocking fee..

See you are one of the devil customers the article is talking about.. You used a camera and returned it, CC offered you another camera or a giftcard and you said no, costing them money on the camera...

Valiant · 01-20-2007, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI

No they won't. CC didn't care if the product was defective or not. Which, it was. The flash wasn't working properly with three different sets of batteries. Their policy was 'opened return=15% restocking fee.'

The CS I spoke to on the phone agreed that the manager was completely wrong and told me where to send an email to complain. Within a day they wrote back apologizing and offering to credit my account.

There policy is if it is a new camera returned opened and not exchanged a 15% restocking fee...

Did you want another camera? Did you want the giftcard? If they did not offer you to buy a different camera then it is their fault.. If they did and you refused saying you were going to buy elsewhere how is that their fault? especially them following their restocking fee charges...

Valiant · 01-20-2007, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI

Actually, my argument was that policies should not be set in stone. I worked retail for over ten years and a few of those in management. When it goes to the corporate level the store manager is usually overriden. What makes the store manager look bad is that he got corporate involved over FIFTEEN DOLLARS. What and idiot. That doesn't make him look effective. It makes him look like a moron. The time it took for two different CSRs to address my concerns cost more than $15.00.

No it shows you are one of the people that like to screw over any company in any way possible...

Now if the manager again did not offer you another camera then you are faultless in it, but if he did and you refused you are a shitbag...

01-20-2007, 04:01 PM
\|Zach\| For The Glory Of The City Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $3176768	The age-old saying that "the customer is always right" may soon be put out to pasture I like this move...some of the actions of people at retail stores is disgusting. http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/0..._consumers.htm The age-old saying that "the customer is always right" may soon be put out to pasture. Why? Increasing numbers of stores are cracking down on what they call "devil" shoppers -- customers whose buying and returning practices, some legit, may actually cause the store to lose money -- and the stores believe they're better off without them. Best Buy stores have gotten so fed up with their "devil" shoppers -- a group they say makes up 20 percent of their customer base -- that they're actively trying to eliminate them from their stores. These shoppers (see below for a description of some of their tactics) account for as many as one-fifth of Best Buy's 500 million customer visits each year, and according to Best Buy CEO Brad Anderson, "They can wreak enormous economic havoc." So now Best Buy is fighting back. They've started training their employees to identify "angel" shoppers -- the ones who buy highly priced items like HDTVs or just-released DVDs without waiting for a markdown -- and cater to them while "blacklisting" the devil shoppers. The staff uses a quick interview of sorts to identify the different types, which they internally call: * Barrys: High-income men who like action movies and cameras Jills: Suburban moms who want to help their families Buzzes: Male technology fans who want the latest high-tech gadgets Other practices Best Buy has put into play include adding a 15 percent restocking fee and selling restocked items over the Internet as opposed to in stores. But Best Buy is not alone. Some stores will go so far as to remove "bad" customers from their promotions mailing list or put them on long holds if they call stores with too many questions and no intent to buy. And stores like Express, KB Toys, the Sports Authority, Staples and Guess have all adopted a new technology called the Return Exchange to monitor customers' buying habits. When a purchase is made, the device records the consumer's name, address, age and transaction details and sends it to The Return Exchange's database. The company says the device is meant to stop shoplifters and other fraud-doers, but it doesn't stop there. Each store inputs certain criteria, such as a high number of returns or a dollar amount on returns, after which a customer's return can be denied. Said retail consultant King Rogers, retail stores lose some $16 billion a year because of fraud. "Consumers are going to find more stores with tighter, more restrictive return policies than they found last year. When you look at the economics of it, $16 billion a year in losses, they have to tighten up," he said. But others are worried that consumers will get the short end of the deal. "I'm concerned about the 99 percent of consumers who are not abusing the system," said Edgar Dworsky, founder of ConsumerWorld.org, an Internet public service site. "It's the wrong size, the wrong color, the mother bought clothing for kids who didn't want it." Already the Federal Trade Commission has been asked to investigate the legality of stores monitoring and denying customers' returns, and Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) proposed legislation to require stores that do limit returns to warn shoppers of the practice. -Shopper Tactics That Might Send You to the "Blacklist" The following practices are among the most common and most offensive in the eyes of retailers. If you commonly engage in any of these practices, you may soon find that your next return is denied or your name has been added to a store's "blacklist" of bad customers. Buying a product, taking advantage of the product rebate, then returning the product for a refund. Buying clothing or another item, wearing it (or using it) once, then returning it (the classic example is the evening gown that's worn with tags on for a night, then returned). Buying an item and returning it with the intent of buying it at the reduced "open-box" price Buying clothing or another item with the intent of returning it later and re-buying it at a markdown price. Buying a product at a discount, such as from the store's selection of "loss leaders," (low-priced products stores lose money on that are designed to attract customers) then reselling it on eBay for a premium price. Finding rock-bottom prices on Web sites, then challenging stores to pay up on their lowest price guarantees. *Taking up an employee's time to ask questions about a significant purchase with the intent to buy it elsewhere. Most consumers do have good intentions at heart and make returns for legitimate reasons. Retailers are aware of this and wary of portraying a too-tough image to customers. Said Anderson, it's a fine balance to ward of bad customers without turning away the good ones. "The most dangerous image I can think of is a retailer that wants to fire customers," he says.
Posts: 54,688

01-20-2007, 09:04 PM	#78
Thig Lyfe Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Thigpen's America Casino cash: $10004900	Customers suck.
Posts: 25,680

01-20-2007, 09:39 PM	#79
gblowfish Be Kind To Your Pets Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Glorious Independence, MO Casino cash: $16896178 VARSITY	I read throught this thread and found it quite interesting. I've been an account service rep for 20 years, and have worked with literally thousands of customers over the years. As a consumer, I've bought lots of stuff on-line, done EBay (while you could still get an actual bargain on EBay) and bought from brick and mortars. Some general observations: 1) About the Brick and Mortar store vs. buying on the web: Yes, if you look hard enough, you can always find an item dirt cheap on the web. But lots of things can happen between you clicking on the item to buy it, and getting it home and using it. Items can be "gray market", that is to say, blemished, re-furbed or otherwise second hand stuff being sold as new. This happens a lot with electronics, musical instruments, etc. Or items can appear to be the same, but the item on the web may be an older model than what the Brick and Mortar store has. They may even have the same part or serial number, but actually be different. 2) Some web based sellers have outrageous re-stocking fees, and God help you if the product is defective or needs service during warranty period. At least with your neighborhood store, most of them will work with you to make sure the equipment works, and if it breaks under warranty, will legitimately help you find qualified service. 3) It's difficult for brick and mortars to price match internet because of the "gray market." Also, does the price you want matched include shipping? Sometime on-line retailers mark up their shipping by 25-30% and gig you there to make up on the difference. Some offer free shipping. Almost all have to charge you sales tax, because they are doing business with you in your state. 4) You can't expect your local store to always be able to match or beat the lowest price you can find on the net. Some things just cost more in the local store. What price is service, advice about the right product to buy, and supporting your local economy, worth to you? 5) I've always found that the customers that bitch the most, fight tooth and nail over every little penny, essentially want the job done yesterday for nothing, are always the ones that are slow payers or crooks. I can smell trouble coming lots of times. You have to look at your customers like a bell curve. You'll have a few customers who spend a lot, are a joy to work with, trust you completely, and sustain your business. You'll always have a few who are total douchebags, look for any opportunity to take advantage of you, are totally untrustworthy and major pains in the ass. Everyone else will be somewhere in between the two extremes. 6) When I sense I have a douchebag on the line, "who can get product X from my competitor Y at Z% less money," I always think to myself "Then why are you on the phone with me? Buy it from competitor Y and leave me the Hell alone!" Usually they're on the phone with me because competitor Y doesn't have the item in stock, or there's some other restrictions or limits on getting that actual price. Maybe a rebate is involved, or they want to use a price they can choke out of me as a hammer to use on competitor Y to lower his price. For the most part I love working with customers. Some can be a real challenge, and you always have a few come along that are wastes of flesh.
Posts: 41,011