Trent Green: Would You Welcome Him Back?

[Donger]

I was cleaning up the ole DVR hard drive yesterday, and came across the playoff game last year. Seeing Green play in that game led me to consider the above question.

What would you say?

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by InChiefsHell

Make no mistake...




...Herm IS responsible for 9-11 AND Global Warming...

and responsible for our quest for medoricity...

[Fish]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

He was doing well for KC though, why was he not retained? Why put Dick Curl in that position? Of all the assistants that Herm retained, why wasn't TS one of them? The defense was the problem, they should have all been shitcanned and offense untouched.

I don't know why Shea wasn't retained. I'm nowhere close to a fan of Curly Dick. Honestly I question his role in Brodie's development. I'd love to see a young passionate coach step in and fill that role. But I would disagree in saying the defense was the problem. There were mounting issues on the offense that were just poking through the surface during DV's last year. I have no doubt that Herm would be shitting fig newtons in delight right now if the offense was able to retain the level of play they had with Roaf/Shields in their prime. But the truth is, if he had left the offense completely untouched(coaches and players), we still would have been left with an aging and rapidly declining LT and RG(the biggest components in the Circus O), with no viable replacements on the team.

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I try and see past political correctness BS, since we are not behind their closed doors. I have felt this way for a long time and have seen nothing to change my mind. Herm came right out of the gate, blaming the offense for the defenses failures.

Herm was hired as a defensive minded coach. They didn't deny that. His love is on that side of the ball. And I didn't take his comments out of the gate as blaming the offense. If anything, he made a point that he didn't want to change the offense, he wanted to change the defensive mindset to help the offense. IMO, Herm's initial plan was to fix the defense first, and hope the offense held together. The offense didn't hold together...

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Agreed and I don't intend to insenuate he wished any bodily harm on Trent Green.
IMO further inhibiting him was not the answer. I remember this board clamoring to let Trent audible.

With the patchwork OLine, audibles wouldn't have done much. The patchwork OLine inhibited the offense. The crappy WR core losing their collective opposable thumbs didn't help either. We tried running the same plays, but we couldn't block anyone long enough to make it work, so it didn't matter.

Herm and Solari did struggle with game planning. That's for sure. But they also overcame a lot with what they had to work with in their first year. IMO, it could have been worse...

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Why the heck is Samie Parker still on this team? Whose decision is that?

That's the coach's, and it's all on him. I agree, this team would be better without Parker. But I can also see the stupid reason that he's still here....

[DaFace]

Trent just wouldn't work in the offense we're running - that was apparent last year. Huard's not a spectacular QB, but he's good at getting the ball out quick. We don't have the line to give our QB's more than a few seconds anymore, and Trent is too used to standing back there for 30 seconds until someone comes open down field.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

4) Upon Trent's return, Trent did not have the offensive line to hang out in the pocket for minutes at a time like he's used to. They could have thrown the playbook out the window and told Trent to do whatever the hell he wanted, and he still wouldn't have gotten passes off any quicker. He simply was not the right QB behind a crappy OLine.

Bingo! Nice post.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

I don't know why Shea wasn't retained. I'm nowhere close to a fan of Curly Dick. Honestly I question his role in Brodie's development. I'd love to see a young passionate coach step in and fill that role. But I would disagree in saying the defense was the problem. There were mounting issues on the offense that were just poking through the surface during DV's last year. I have no doubt that Herm would be shitting fig newtons in delight right now if the offense was able to retain the level of play they had with Roaf/Shields in their prime. But the truth is, if he had left the offense completely untouched(coaches and players), we still would have been left with an aging and rapidly declining LT and RG(the biggest components in the Circus O), with no viable replacements on the team.

I have to argue with the defense not being the problem. The MAJORITY of the draft choices, during DVs tenure, went to the defense. In fact, DV wanted a defensive player when LJ was picked. Free agent, after free agent has been signed to the defense. DCs have been changed, if you believe Gunther is a DC. Too many of the teams assets, both financial and time spent, were needed to keep the D from being the laughing stock.
Meantime, the offense has to be neglected, because of all the assets being deverted to the D.
Dick Vermeil stated the offense needed to help the defense, but he had earned the right to say that. He had assembled these guys and earned their respect.

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Herm was hired as a defensive minded coach. They didn't deny that. His love is on that side of the ball. And I didn't take his comments out of the gate as blaming the offense. If anything, he made a point that he didn't want to change the offense, he wanted to change the defensive mindset to help the offense. IMO, Herm's initial plan was to fix the defense first, and hope the offense held together. The offense didn't hold together.

The second interview I heard Herm Edwards give, he said the Offense needed to help the defense more. He said there were things they could do better to help the defense. Willie's retirement, came shortly after that.
Herm had not earned the leadership position and respect yet, to pull that off.
I am no football expert, but I have watched a lot of Chiefs games, if the offense can score in 7 seconds, take it! I know the defense needs a break, but you can't throttle the offense.
Oh darn, I have this open TD play, but it is too early so I will wait?

Originally Posted by KC Fish

With the patchwork OLine, audibles wouldn't have done much. The patchwork OLine inhibited the offense. The crappy WR core losing their collective opposable thumbs didn't help either. We tried running the same plays, but we couldn't block anyone long enough to make it work, so it didn't matter.

It may not have worked, but it would make more sense to free up your QB with the ability to respond to the chaos, instead of inhibiting him further. He was a veteran, that had shown the ability to make some plays extemporaniously. It got so ugly at the end though, I was thrilled to see him gone. I had no idea he would turn into a whiny bitch. His character had totally changed from being "the Man" of the Chiefs, to a whiner.

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Herm and Solari did struggle with game planning. That's for sure. But they also overcame a lot with what they had to work with in their first year. IMO, it could have been worse.

I hope I am totally wrong and they both go to the HOF for what they accomplish here, but the tea leaves aren't showing that yet. Herm should not even be involved in the offensive game planning.

Originally Posted by KC Fish

That's the coach's, and it's all on him. I agree, this team would be better without Parker. But I can also see the stupid reason that he's still here....

I don't, why is he still here? Haven't we have cut better WRs recently?

[Extra Point]

I'd like to see Jared Allen and Tamba Hali welcome him back for a playoff game with open arms: one high, one low.

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by kcfanXIII

so what you're really trying to tell me is herm is responsible for 9/11? cause i've seen conspiracy arguments with more proof than what you're showing.

1. new head coach brings in new staff? thats a radical concept.
2. i'm sure roaf's aching back, hurt more than his pride. factored into his decision more too.
3. opening the season with the plan of hurting your starting qb is a sure fire way to win a super bowl.
4. limiting a recently returned from injury QB, again radical concept
5. after seeing film of ind vs jax, i'm sure90% of coaches would have said let's run it down their throats. no one knew indy's defense was going to show up to play.

i'm not saying herm's a football god, but to place the poor performance of the offense souly on him is to be blind and naive. the loss of two HOF line man in two years has a bigger negative impact than herm's conservative approach.

This does IMO, seem closer to reality.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by kcfanXIII

so what you're really trying to tell me is herm is responsible for 9/11? cause i've seen conspiracy arguments with more proof than what you're showing.

1. new head coach brings in new staff? thats a radical concept.
2. i'm sure roaf's aching back, hurt more than his pride. factored into his decision more too.
3. opening the season with the plan of hurting your starting qb is a sure fire way to win a super bowl.
4. limiting a recently returned from injury QB, again radical concept
5. after seeing film of ind vs jax, i'm sure90% of coaches would have said let's run it down their throats. no one knew indy's defense was going to show up to play.

i'm not saying herm's a football god, but to place the poor performance of the offense souly on him is to be blind and naive. the loss of two HOF line man in two years has a bigger negative impact than herm's conservative approach.

I see you added all of this to your edit.
1) New Staff, a QB coach should have not been his #1 priority. Clue-the defense sucked ass.
2) See posts about this in this thread, believe what you want.
3) WTF?
4) Herm is not an offensive guy, he should have deferred to someone else, like Trent, that knew something about the offense.
5) With all the hype prior to the game, any self respecting defensive player would have dug a little deeper, which they did. The entire world knew we were going to run, just imagine what a little imagination would have done.
Will Shields had not been playing up to his previous capability for a while. Herm is in charge, the results will speak for themselves.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I have to argue with the defense not being the problem. The MAJORITY of the draft choices, during DVs tenure, went to the defense. In fact, DV wanted a defensive player when LJ was picked. Free agent, after free agent has been signed to the defense. DCs have been changed, if you believe Gunther is a DC. Too many of the teams assets, both financial and time spent, were needed to keep the D from being the laughing stock.
Meantime, the offense has to be neglected, because of all the assets being deverted to the D.
Dick Vermeil stated the offense needed to help the defense, but he had earned the right to say that. He had assembled these guys and earned their respect.

I do think the defense had problems. I wasn't meaning to say the D was fine and the O was the problem. I should have worded my statement differently. I was trying to point out that while we hired Herm to fix the defense, we had growing problems on the offense that prevented Herm from being able to just leave the offense alone. My point was that even if he wanted to leave the O alone, DV's lack of quality young backups had already hindered the OLine to the point that the Circus O was bound to stumble. Herm walked right into the trap saying he wasn't going to change anything, when in fact he should have realized that the offense was at a point where it had to change whether he wanted it to or not. And I know DV tried to fix the D through drafting/FA/new coaches.... he was just terrible at it. And those failures further contributed to the offensive neglect, making Herm's stance even more difficult.

Originally Posted by HemiEd

The second interview I heard Herm Edwards give, he said the Offense needed to help the defense more. He said there were things they could do better to help the defense. Willie's retirement, came shortly after that.
Herm had not earned the leadership position and respect yet, to pull that off.
I am no football expert, but I have watched a lot of Chiefs games, if the offense can score in 7 seconds, take it! I know the defense needs a break, but you can't throttle the offense.
Oh darn, I have this open TD play, but it is too early so I will wait?

I can't say for certain why Roaf retired. Personally I don't think it had anything to do with Edwards. If Roaf had been able to stay and give 90%, we probably wouldn't be criticizing Herm in the same regard. But I honestly don't think Herm is against scoring points. He's trying very hard to change the mindset that you have to score in 7 seconds, or that you have to score 21 points. A mindset so different from DV's score score score attitude that people can't seem to wrap their brain around it. Herm wants to score points. He just wants to score them in a slower, more organized manner.

Originally Posted by HemiEd

It may not have worked, but it would make more sense to free up your QB with the ability to respond to the chaos, instead of inhibiting him further. He was a veteran, that had shown the ability to make some plays extemporaniously. It got so ugly at the end though, I was thrilled to see him gone. I had no idea he would turn into a whiny bitch. His character had totally changed from being "the Man" of the Chiefs, to a whiner.
I hope I am totally wrong and they both go to the HOF for what they accomplish here, but the tea leaves aren't showing that yet. Herm should not even be involved in the offensive game planning.

I actually agree with this. But Green's confidence and ability to run the offense could not overcome several things in making that happen. Namely: Herm's conservative approach, Solari's inexperience, and the OLine's ineptitude. The odd man out was Trent. Instead of molding our offense around Trent's abilities, we tried to force Trent into an offensive style that didn't fit any of his qualities... forcing the square peg into the round hole. Which is the point of this thread. Trent's a talented QB, but he could never excel in this type of offense.

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I don't, why is he still here? Haven't we have cut better WRs recently?

That is one question that still baffles me.... With all the talk about youth and Webb/Hannon/Sippio, it totally goes against Herm's philosophy. This and the Huard situation are glaring points that have finally made me doubt Herm's true intentions....