Low Wonderlic scores ding elite NFL prospects - Page 2

Quesadilla Joe · 03-18-2011, 08:50 AM

Two of the NFL's brightest future stars, LSU CB Patrick Peterson and Georgia WR A.J. Green, registered among the five lowest Wonderlic scores of the 330 participants at this year's Combine.

Peterson was one of four prospects who recorded a dreaded single-digit score, which NFL teams often equate with getting their name right, tying with South Carolina's Chris Culliver for the lowest mark among all defensive backs as both correctly answered only nine questions on the 12-minute, 50-question test.

Green registered the lowest score of all receivers, answering 10 questions correctly.

What does it mean? The Wonderlic test is just a small piece of the evaluation process, designed to gauge the intelligence of prospects. What NFL teams value much more highly is football intelligence — how quickly a player can instinctively read, react and make plays on the field.

"Peterson plays like a low-test guy," one NFL decision maker told PFW on the condition he remain anonymous, "but (if) he's in 'cat' (man-to-man) coverage in the NFL, it's not as big of an issue as it will be for offensive guys."

"He's a press corner," another longtime evaluator said. "His strong suit is that he can run and press. He won't play for the Patriots, where he's disguising coverage after coverage, but I still think he can be a No. 1 shutdown corner."

A scout with deep knowledge of the kid said, "The more I'm around him, the more I love him even more. I love the kid, and I love the talent. But I don't like the way he plays with his back to the ball. He has an instinct issue, and I think it's tied to his mental (ability). He can only handle so much. He's not a quick processor. It's a scary year to be drafting in the top 10 because they all have some issue."

The increasing complexity of NFL offenses creates more pressure for a receiver like Green, but teams are still split about how much of a concern his score is.

"He will get it," one evaluator said. "You're going to have to take it slow with him and let him start at one position and let him learn on the run. He's not going to be able to handle learning all three positions. If you ask him to be an X, Y and Z, you're setting him up for failure."

"A.J. won't reach his full potential," another evaluator said. "It's hard for dumb receivers. I don't know that Julio Jones (who scored a 15, ranking in the bottom 12 among wideouts) will be much better."

A third evaluator said, "You can't cover that guy. He's so difficult to defend. Will it take him some time? It could. That's on the coaches. It's their job not to give him too much. If you overload him, you could have some problems initially, but he's a great kid. He'll work at it. And he'll get it."

Florida OT Carl Johnson produced the worst score among this draft class, registering a 6, and Oklahoma RB Kendall Hunter was the only other athlete to record a single digit, scoring a 9.

The offensive line and quarterback groups, both expected to score highly given the premium placed on reading defenses and recognizing protection in the NFL, heavily represented the top 10 scores. Alabama QB Greg McElroy registered the top score, correctly answering 43 of the 49 questions he attempted. He was followed by Boston College OT Anthony Castonzo (41), Baylor OG Danny Watkins (40), Wisconsin QB Scott Tolzien (38), Idaho QB Nathan Enderle (38), Central Michigan ILB Nick Bellore (36), Portland State TE Julius Thomas (35), Florida State QB Christian Ponder (35), Michigan OG Steve Schilling (35) and Nebraska CB Prince Amukamara (35).

Although the tests are designed to measure intelligence, many registered NFL player advisers help their clients prepare for the exam, and as a result, the test scores often may be inflated. The Wonderlic company says no tester should improve by more than a handful of points, and any improvement much greater than that should be dismissed.

Castonzo scored a 35 the first time he took the exam last spring, six points lower than he did at the recent Combine; McElroy scored a 32, jumping 11 points, and Enderle a 40, falling two. On the other hand, Watkins scored a 15 the first time he took the exam last spring, so his 25-point improvement will be discarded by NFL teams, which have expressed some concern about his ability to handle playing multiple positions despite having the physical skill set to play anywhere on the line. Bellore scored a 21 the first time he took the test, showing a 15-point improvement. Amukamara, who registered the top score for a cornerback, improved by 21 points from the 14 he recorded last fall, and teams that have interviewed him have said the 14 score is a closer indicator of his intelligence.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...-nfl-prospects

milkman · 03-22-2011, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

Lmao the only position where the wonderlic MIGHT matter is QB. Other than that, no there is no correlation. Jamaal Charles isn't the brightest guy in the world..and yet, he's a playmaker.

The Wonderlic doesn't mean shit for skill positions really. I'm pretty ****ing sure the majority of RBs/WRs/CBs got less than a 25 on it.

So yeah, the wonderlic doesn't matter to Julio Jones and AJ Green.

And studying playbook correlates NOTHING to the wonderlic. Have you ever seen an NFL playbook? Even the smartest people have trouble knowing the plays and memorizing them. Yet 1696+ players on NFL rosters are able to do it pretty easily.

The wonderlic gives you a idea of how quickly one might assimilate the complicated schemes that these kids are going to be introduced to.

Still, I believe a test to measure their football IQ would be a better barometer to evaluate them with.

Chris Meck · 03-22-2011, 11:14 AM

really makes me like the idea of a mid round QB project. McElroy, Enderle, or Ponder would all be nice potential.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 04-20-2011, 09:32 AM

Gabbert reportedly scored a 42 on the Wonderlic.

**Rain Man** · 04-20-2011, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

The wonderlic gives you a idea of how quickly one might assimilate the complicated schemes that these kids are going to be introduced to.

Still, I believe a test to measure their football IQ would be a better barometer to evaluate them with.

I agree. Smarts is good, and it should be tested, but I've always wondered if a written test like this is the best way to test it for football players. Accountants, yes, engineers yes, but I'm not sure about football players.

**Rain Man** · 04-20-2011, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Gabbert reportedly scored a 42 on the Wonderlic.

I must say, he's been impressive on the interviews I've seen.

**DaKCMan AP** · 04-20-2011, 10:08 AM

The Wonderlic tests general cognitive ability. That includes problem solving and critical thinking skills. Cognitive ability can be broken into verbal, quantitative, reasoning, spatial, and perceptual abilities.

If you don't think all of those (verbal, spatial, and perceptive in particular) have importance in football then you're wrong.

**The Franchise** · 04-20-2011, 10:09 AM

I'm holding out hope that this whole Cassel thing is a joke and Pioli is going to trade up and take Gabbert.

I can dream.....

**DaKCMan AP** · 04-20-2011, 10:12 AM

For NFL players, the closer you are to the ball, the higher your score
Offensive tackles: 26
Centers: 25
Quarterbacks: 24
Guards: 23
Tight Ends: 22
Safeties: 19
Linebackers: 19
Cornerbacks: 18
Wide receivers: 17
Running backs: 16

Chiefnj2 · 04-20-2011, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

How are guys getting improvements of 15 to 25 points on a 50 point test?

Like any other standardized test, study.

Saccopoo · 04-20-2011, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

really makes me like the idea of a mid round QB project. McElroy, Enderle, or Ponder would all be nice potential.

Ponder might not make it out of the first round.

He had a very good Senior Bowl, a great Combine and blew it up at his Pro Day when he showed up at a rock hard 230 and was gunning passes all over the field with accuracy. From all indications, his arm has fully recovered from the surgeries and he has full range of motion and strength.

Very athletic and very smart with good pocket presence and field awareness. He is very quick through his reads/progressions and has operated out of a pro set at Florida State.

Personally, I think he's the best quarterback in this draft in terms of being capable of immediate, high level production at the NFL level and fits Haley's offensive system to a "T."

I would be happy if the Chiefs pulled the trigger on him at #21. (As long as they addressed the OT, C, NT & WR positions with the next four picks.)

However, from all indications, the Bengals have a major interest in him. They will probably take AJ Green at #4 and look to move up into the late first round area to take Ponder.

ShowtimeSBMVP · 08-31-2011, 12:11 PM

According to Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, Raiders rookie Terrelle Pryor scored a 7 on the Wonderlic test.
Pryor presumably took the Wonderlic in preparation for the supplemental draft. 7 is Vince Young territory; V.Y. scored a six in 2006 before allegedly retaking the same exact test with the same questions and improving to a 16. The Wonderlic is not an indication of future success, but may be notable for a quarterback who's still considered extremely raw after 35 college starts.

03-18-2011, 08:50 AM
Quesadilla Joe Abolish The Salary Cap! Join Date: Mar 2008 Casino cash: $3408675	Low Wonderlic scores ding elite NFL prospects Two of the NFL's brightest future stars, LSU CB Patrick Peterson and Georgia WR A.J. Green, registered among the five lowest Wonderlic scores of the 330 participants at this year's Combine. Peterson was one of four prospects who recorded a dreaded single-digit score, which NFL teams often equate with getting their name right, tying with South Carolina's Chris Culliver for the lowest mark among all defensive backs as both correctly answered only nine questions on the 12-minute, 50-question test. Green registered the lowest score of all receivers, answering 10 questions correctly. What does it mean? The Wonderlic test is just a small piece of the evaluation process, designed to gauge the intelligence of prospects. What NFL teams value much more highly is football intelligence — how quickly a player can instinctively read, react and make plays on the field. "Peterson plays like a low-test guy," one NFL decision maker told PFW on the condition he remain anonymous, "but (if) he's in 'cat' (man-to-man) coverage in the NFL, it's not as big of an issue as it will be for offensive guys." "He's a press corner," another longtime evaluator said. "His strong suit is that he can run and press. He won't play for the Patriots, where he's disguising coverage after coverage, but I still think he can be a No. 1 shutdown corner." A scout with deep knowledge of the kid said, "The more I'm around him, the more I love him even more. I love the kid, and I love the talent. But I don't like the way he plays with his back to the ball. He has an instinct issue, and I think it's tied to his mental (ability). He can only handle so much. He's not a quick processor. It's a scary year to be drafting in the top 10 because they all have some issue." The increasing complexity of NFL offenses creates more pressure for a receiver like Green, but teams are still split about how much of a concern his score is. "He will get it," one evaluator said. "You're going to have to take it slow with him and let him start at one position and let him learn on the run. He's not going to be able to handle learning all three positions. If you ask him to be an X, Y and Z, you're setting him up for failure." "A.J. won't reach his full potential," another evaluator said. "It's hard for dumb receivers. I don't know that Julio Jones (who scored a 15, ranking in the bottom 12 among wideouts) will be much better." A third evaluator said, "You can't cover that guy. He's so difficult to defend. Will it take him some time? It could. That's on the coaches. It's their job not to give him too much. If you overload him, you could have some problems initially, but he's a great kid. He'll work at it. And he'll get it." Florida OT Carl Johnson produced the worst score among this draft class, registering a 6, and Oklahoma RB Kendall Hunter was the only other athlete to record a single digit, scoring a 9. The offensive line and quarterback groups, both expected to score highly given the premium placed on reading defenses and recognizing protection in the NFL, heavily represented the top 10 scores. Alabama QB Greg McElroy registered the top score, correctly answering 43 of the 49 questions he attempted. He was followed by Boston College OT Anthony Castonzo (41), Baylor OG Danny Watkins (40), Wisconsin QB Scott Tolzien (38), Idaho QB Nathan Enderle (38), Central Michigan ILB Nick Bellore (36), Portland State TE Julius Thomas (35), Florida State QB Christian Ponder (35), Michigan OG Steve Schilling (35) and Nebraska CB Prince Amukamara (35). Although the tests are designed to measure intelligence, many registered NFL player advisers help their clients prepare for the exam, and as a result, the test scores often may be inflated. The Wonderlic company says no tester should improve by more than a handful of points, and any improvement much greater than that should be dismissed. Castonzo scored a 35 the first time he took the exam last spring, six points lower than he did at the recent Combine; McElroy scored a 32, jumping 11 points, and Enderle a 40, falling two. On the other hand, Watkins scored a 15 the first time he took the exam last spring, so his 25-point improvement will be discarded by NFL teams, which have expressed some concern about his ability to handle playing multiple positions despite having the physical skill set to play anywhere on the line. Bellore scored a 21 the first time he took the test, showing a 15-point improvement. Amukamara, who registered the top score for a cornerback, improved by 21 points from the 14 he recorded last fall, and teams that have interviewed him have said the 14 score is a closer indicator of his intelligence. http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...-nfl-prospects
Posts: 19,907

03-22-2011, 11:14 AM	#17
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $-1195090	really makes me like the idea of a mid round QB project. McElroy, Enderle, or Ponder would all be nice potential.
Posts: 19,434

04-20-2011, 09:32 AM	#18
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7239572	Gabbert reportedly scored a 42 on the Wonderlic. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,077

04-20-2011, 10:08 AM	#21
DaKCMan AP Beloved & Awesome CP Celebrity Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Florida Casino cash: $5624952	The Wonderlic tests general cognitive ability. That includes problem solving and critical thinking skills. Cognitive ability can be broken into verbal, quantitative, reasoning, spatial, and perceptual abilities. If you don't think all of those (verbal, spatial, and perceptive in particular) have importance in football then you're wrong. __________________
Posts: 35,714

04-20-2011, 10:09 AM	#22
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2075047	I'm holding out hope that this whole Cassel thing is a joke and Pioli is going to trade up and take Gabbert. I can dream.....
Posts: 92,316

04-20-2011, 10:12 AM	#23
DaKCMan AP Beloved & Awesome CP Celebrity Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Florida Casino cash: $5624952	For NFL players, the closer you are to the ball, the higher your score Offensive tackles: 26 Centers: 25 Quarterbacks: 24 Guards: 23 Tight Ends: 22 Safeties: 19 Linebackers: 19 Cornerbacks: 18 Wide receivers: 17 Running backs: 16 Attached Thumbnails __________________
Posts: 35,714

08-31-2011, 12:11 PM	#26
ShowtimeSBMVP Chiefs Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $1286009	According to Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, Raiders rookie Terrelle Pryor scored a 7 on the Wonderlic test. Pryor presumably took the Wonderlic in preparation for the supplemental draft. 7 is Vince Young territory; V.Y. scored a six in 2006 before allegedly retaking the same exact test with the same questions and improving to a 16. The Wonderlic is not an indication of future success, but may be notable for a quarterback who's still considered extremely raw after 35 college starts.
Posts: 23,832