News Video of Police shooting man 30+ times - Page 22

Mr. Laz · 08-17-2012, 01:06 PM

Video captures Michigan man's shooting by police
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/16/us/mic...ing/index.html

From Jason Carroll and Sheila Steffen, CNN
updated 10:12 AM EDT, Fri August 17, 2012

Man killed by cops, shot multiple times

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

Milton Hall was killed in a confrontation with police in Saginaw, Michigan
"It appeared to be a firing squad dressed in police uniforms," his mother says
Prosecutors and state police are investigating Hall's killing
His family says he was mentally ill and questions why the probe is taking so long

Saginaw, Michigan (CNN) -- Three days before Independence Day, Milton Hall died in a fusillade of police gunfire outside a strip mall.
He had been arguing with officers in a parking lot next to a shuttered Chinese restaurant when he was shot, in full view of passing motorists and while he was holding some sort of knife. Saginaw County Prosecutor Michael Thomas said later that the squad of police confronting him opened fire "because apparently, at this point in time, he was threatening to assault police."

Thomas' office and the Michigan State Police are investigating Hall's death. Saginaw Police Chief Gerald Cliff said Hall was "known to be an assaultive person" with "a long history" of contacts with law enforcement, "not only with police from our department but with the county."
Hall's cousin, Mike Washington, acknowledged Hall had been jailed for minor offenses like vagrancy in the past, but, "He was not violent." And Hall's mother is growing impatient with the probe and questions why police opened fire so furiously on her son, whom she said was mentally ill.

The chart blog: Mental health

"It appeared to be a firing squad dressed in police uniforms," Jewel Hall told CNN from her hometown of Albuquerque, New Mexico. "There was another way. They did not have to kill him. He had not done anything. He was not violent. He was not a murderer. He was not a criminal."
Jewel Hall said her son had once trained as a civil right activist, been an avid reader and played football. He had lived in Saginaw for 35 years and received Social Security disability payments for a mental illness, but, "He knew his rights."

"Everybody knew him. The police knew him well," she said. "So that's another question: they knew him, so why? Why did they kill him?"

WJRT: Community questions police shooting

The July 1 shooting happened in a parking lot on West Genessee Avenue, a busy commercial strip on the north side of Saginaw. In a video purchased by CNN, shot by a motorist from across the street, the 49-year-old Hall is seen arguing with a half-dozen officers. For more than three minutes, he walks back and forth, and at one time appears to crouch in a "karate stance," according to the man who captured the scene.

Police said Hall had just had a run-in with a convenience store clerk. On the video, he tells police, "My name is Milton Hall, I just called 911. My name is Milton, and I'm p---ed off." When an officer tells him to put the knife down, he responds, "I ain't putting s--t down." He appears unimpressed by a police dog, telling officers, "Let him go. Let the motherf---ing dog go."

Finally, he turns to the left of the frame, where another officer had moved out of view a short time earlier. It's then that the police open fire with a reported 46 shots in a five-second hail of bullets.
"I'm stunned that six human beings would stand in front of one human being and fire 46 shots," Jewel Hall said. "I just don't understand that. It's a lot of pain in that because it only takes one shot, so the question is why?"

She questioned why none of the cameras in the police cars at the scene recorded the shooting -- "none of them work."

"So that's the question I have and the community has is, what's taking so long?" she said. "Why is not being transparent?"

Lou Palumbo, a former Long Island police officer, told CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" that the video is "a perceptive nightmare" for a police department and could reflect a lack of training by the officers.

"This wasn't a scenario where he was discharging a weapon in their direction," he said.

But Palumbo added that the shooting may yet be determined to be justifiable. "One of the things the public has to understand, an individual wielding a knife at you at about 20 feet can be on top of you in a split second," he said. "The public doesn't know this because they don't do this for a living."

Neither state police nor the prosecutor's office would comment on the investigation. In a written statement to CNN, the state police said, "Our focus is on conducting a complete and thorough investigation, rather than a hasty one."

But Saginaw City Councilman Norman Braddock, who also has criticized the pace of the investigation, said the probe should be a "top priority."
When CNN showed Braddock the video, which he hadn't seen before, he said, "This is disturbing."

"I can see what people are traumatized at, looking at something like that," Braddock said. "We need answers."

Jewel Hall said her family is conducting its own investigation into the shooting, "and at the end of that investigation we will decide what next steps to take with our legal advisors."

jd1020 · 08-19-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghak99

Perhaps KC is different, but they make jack shit in this little Midwest town.

Not sure. I don't live in KC. I can say in Illinois you are looking at around $60k, or $80k if you live up near Chicago, for an officer out of his probationary years.

ClevelandBronco · 08-19-2012, 10:06 PM

I guess this looks kinda bad for the cops, but it's not like they shot his dog or some shit.

Frazod · 08-19-2012, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Roger Murtaugh: See how easy that was? Boom, still alive. Now we question him. You know why we question him? Because I got him in the leg. I didn't shoot him full of holes or try to jump off a building with him.

Martin Riggs: Hey, that's not fair. The building guy lived.

You know, in real life, you can get shot in the leg, have your femoral artery pierced, and bleed out in about a minute.

I would also point out that in real life the guy who played Murtaugh blamed the Haiti earthquake on global warming.

That was a very entertaining movie, though. I particularly liked the smiley face scene.

Wallcrawler · 08-20-2012, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

You know, in real life, you can get shot in the leg, have your femoral artery pierced, and bleed out in about a minute.

Yeah, Id much rather have 46 bullets fired at me and taking 30 of them. Much more survivable.

If Mr. Ginsu died of a pierced femoral artery, it would have been an unfortunate tragedy that occured while trying to bring him in without killing him. I doubt that even the victim's (yes, victim) own mother would have faulted them for that.

Clearly, the intent would be not to butcher the guy in the street, but just stop him. All this shit about cops not being able to shoot someone in the leg and stop them is just bullshit.

Im fairly sure that had those 46 rounds been directed toward his kneecaps, dude would still be breathing.

**mikeyis4dcats.** · 08-20-2012, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Yeah, Id much rather have 46 bullets fired at me and taking 30 of them. Much more survivable.

If Mr. Ginsu died of a pierced femoral artery, it would have been an unfortunate tragedy that occured while trying to bring him in without killing him. I doubt that even the victim's (yes, victim) own mother would have faulted them for that.

Clearly, the intent would be not to butcher the guy in the street, but just stop him. All this shit about cops not being able to shoot someone in the leg and stop them is just bullshit.

Im fairly sure that had those 46 rounds been directed toward his kneecaps, dude would still be breathing.

ReynardMuldrake · 08-20-2012, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Yeah, Id much rather have 46 bullets fired at me and taking 30 of them. Much more survivable.

If Mr. Ginsu died of a pierced femoral artery, it would have been an unfortunate tragedy that occured while trying to bring him in without killing him. I doubt that even the victim's (yes, victim) own mother would have faulted them for that.

Clearly, the intent would be not to butcher the guy in the street, but just stop him. All this shit about cops not being able to shoot someone in the leg and stop them is just bullshit.

Im fairly sure that had those 46 rounds been directed toward his kneecaps, dude would still be breathing.

Have you heard the term, "Deadly Force"?

Cops don't carry firearms so as to subdue and contain a threat by carefully disabling their limbs one by one. It's a lethal weapon. They shoot to kill, and rightly so.

**ChiTown** · 08-20-2012, 08:20 AM

Did he died?

Frazod · 08-20-2012, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Yeah, Id much rather have 46 bullets fired at me and taking 30 of them. Much more survivable.

If Mr. Ginsu died of a pierced femoral artery, it would have been an unfortunate tragedy that occured while trying to bring him in without killing him. I doubt that even the victim's (yes, victim) own mother would have faulted them for that.

Clearly, the intent would be not to butcher the guy in the street, but just stop him. All this shit about cops not being able to shoot someone in the leg and stop them is just bullshit.

Im fairly sure that had those 46 rounds been directed toward his kneecaps, dude would still be breathing.

Sorry, but life isn't some dumb **** liberal movie fantasy. If you're batshit crazy and approach a group of cops with a knife, you get shot. I don't care if he got shot 4 times, or 40, or 400. And as I said earlier, WHO CARES? One less dirtbag lunatic in the world. I call it a Darwin Flush.

R8RFAN · 08-21-2012, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReynardMuldrake

Have you heard the term, "Deadly Force"?

Cops don't carry firearms so as to subdue and contain a threat by carefully disabling their limbs one by one. It's a lethal weapon. They shoot to kill, and rightly so.

If you have a knife 20 feet from me threatening me, I can't shoot you unless you came at me with it.

If this guy was running towards the cops blow his ass away but this is extremely excessive in my mind.

DJ's left nut · 08-21-2012, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

All this shit about cops not being able to shoot someone in the leg and stop them is just bullshit.

Im fairly sure that had those 46 rounds been directed toward his kneecaps, dude would still be breathing.

Absolutely every bit of empirical research ever done suggests otherwise.

Shooters under stress just miss - it's why those shooters are taught to aim at the largest part of the body.

The 'shoot 'em in the leg' school is simply factually inaccurate in everything they have to say in this regard. It's an entire thought process built around a faulty premise.

Continue to parrot it if you want - but you're wrong. Sorry.

**Bwana** · 08-21-2012, 06:18 PM

That's nothing, we use Popo snipers on cows around here.

http://billingsgazette.com/news/loca...12f7ec07c.html

BIG_DADDY · 08-21-2012, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bwana

That's nothing, we use Popo snipers on cows around here.

http://billingsgazette.com/news/loca...12f7ec07c.html

Maybe DJ is right, the cops got all stressed out and couldn't even hit a cow so they had to bring in a sniper.

Aries Walker · 08-22-2012, 09:16 PM

Dear people who think they should have shot the legs:

When, during that video, should one of the police shouted out "Shoot for the legs"? There was no time elapsed between the aggressive move and the first shot. If all of those police are trained to wait for the aggressive move, then the command, then for them to hear the command, then for their minds to process the command, then for their hands to aim south, then the firing, that's more time for the aggressive move to play out. That would place the object of his move in more danger.

Also, how would they know that every policeman would hear it? They were on opposite sides of him (including at least one behind the bush on the left).

Who would give that order? I imagine that the one in charge was the one trying to talk the guy down. Should s/he stop and start shouting commands, mid-sentence?

Suppose the mentally unstable guy with the knife heard the command. Now he knows not only that they are about to shoot, but that they're not willing to shoot to kill.

Okay, so you train your police officers to shoot the legs in some situations. What's the line? If it's distance - say, 20 feet - can those cops, under considerable stress, judge whether they're 18, 20, or 22 feet away, without resorting to a tape measure? Do you have them go for the leg shot if there are three or more police on site? If they guy's on drugs; how would they know? Is that an eight-inch knife, or just six? Is he alone? Do you know him? Or would you just have them always shoot the legs?

No. You would not. Police officers are frequently outnumbered, outgunned, and in hostile environments with a lot of moving parts in action during a life-or-death moment. When the time comes for them to take action, they should take swift and sure action and preserve their own safety, and the safety of other people nearby. In other words, don't shoot the leg.

That said, the way to have ended this should have been through less-lethal weapons. If those police didn't have tasers, and maybe a beanbag gun in every police cruiser trunk, they should have.

08-17-2012, 01:06 PM
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	Video of Police shooting man 30+ times Video captures Michigan man's shooting by police http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/16/us/mic...ing/index.html From Jason Carroll and Sheila Steffen, CNN updated 10:12 AM EDT, Fri August 17, 2012 Man killed by cops, shot multiple times STORY HIGHLIGHTS Milton Hall was killed in a confrontation with police in Saginaw, Michigan "It appeared to be a firing squad dressed in police uniforms," his mother says Prosecutors and state police are investigating Hall's killing His family says he was mentally ill and questions why the probe is taking so long Saginaw, Michigan (CNN) -- Three days before Independence Day, Milton Hall died in a fusillade of police gunfire outside a strip mall. He had been arguing with officers in a parking lot next to a shuttered Chinese restaurant when he was shot, in full view of passing motorists and while he was holding some sort of knife. Saginaw County Prosecutor Michael Thomas said later that the squad of police confronting him opened fire "because apparently, at this point in time, he was threatening to assault police." Thomas' office and the Michigan State Police are investigating Hall's death. Saginaw Police Chief Gerald Cliff said Hall was "known to be an assaultive person" with "a long history" of contacts with law enforcement, "not only with police from our department but with the county." Hall's cousin, Mike Washington, acknowledged Hall had been jailed for minor offenses like vagrancy in the past, but, "He was not violent." And Hall's mother is growing impatient with the probe and questions why police opened fire so furiously on her son, whom she said was mentally ill. The chart blog: Mental health "It appeared to be a firing squad dressed in police uniforms," Jewel Hall told CNN from her hometown of Albuquerque, New Mexico. "There was another way. They did not have to kill him. He had not done anything. He was not violent. He was not a murderer. He was not a criminal." Jewel Hall said her son had once trained as a civil right activist, been an avid reader and played football. He had lived in Saginaw for 35 years and received Social Security disability payments for a mental illness, but, "He knew his rights." "Everybody knew him. The police knew him well," she said. "So that's another question: they knew him, so why? Why did they kill him?" WJRT: Community questions police shooting The July 1 shooting happened in a parking lot on West Genessee Avenue, a busy commercial strip on the north side of Saginaw. In a video purchased by CNN, shot by a motorist from across the street, the 49-year-old Hall is seen arguing with a half-dozen officers. For more than three minutes, he walks back and forth, and at one time appears to crouch in a "karate stance," according to the man who captured the scene. Police said Hall had just had a run-in with a convenience store clerk. On the video, he tells police, "My name is Milton Hall, I just called 911. My name is Milton, and I'm p---ed off." When an officer tells him to put the knife down, he responds, "I ain't putting s--t down." He appears unimpressed by a police dog, telling officers, "Let him go. Let the motherf---ing dog go." Finally, he turns to the left of the frame, where another officer had moved out of view a short time earlier. It's then that the police open fire with a reported 46 shots in a five-second hail of bullets. "I'm stunned that six human beings would stand in front of one human being and fire 46 shots," Jewel Hall said. "I just don't understand that. It's a lot of pain in that because it only takes one shot, so the question is why?" She questioned why none of the cameras in the police cars at the scene recorded the shooting -- "none of them work." "So that's the question I have and the community has is, what's taking so long?" she said. "Why is not being transparent?" Lou Palumbo, a former Long Island police officer, told CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" that the video is "a perceptive nightmare" for a police department and could reflect a lack of training by the officers. "This wasn't a scenario where he was discharging a weapon in their direction," he said. But Palumbo added that the shooting may yet be determined to be justifiable. "One of the things the public has to understand, an individual wielding a knife at you at about 20 feet can be on top of you in a split second," he said. "The public doesn't know this because they don't do this for a living." Neither state police nor the prosecutor's office would comment on the investigation. In a written statement to CNN, the state police said, "Our focus is on conducting a complete and thorough investigation, rather than a hasty one." But Saginaw City Councilman Norman Braddock, who also has criticized the pace of the investigation, said the probe should be a "top priority." When CNN showed Braddock the video, which he hadn't seen before, he said, "This is disturbing." "I can see what people are traumatized at, looking at something like that," Braddock said. "We need answers." Jewel Hall said her family is conducting its own investigation into the shooting, "and at the end of that investigation we will decide what next steps to take with our legal advisors."
Posts: 95,626

08-19-2012, 10:06 PM	#317
ClevelandBronco I'm with the banned. Join Date: Sep 2006 Casino cash: $5658955	I guess this looks kinda bad for the cops, but it's not like they shot his dog or some shit.
Posts: 28,113

08-20-2012, 08:20 AM	#322
ChiTown Stroking to the SB Champs! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Flatlands of Kansas Casino cash: $-431038	Did he died? __________________
Posts: 40,913

08-21-2012, 06:18 PM	#326
Bwana It's Five O'Clock Somewhere Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Billings, Montana Casino cash: $2135963647	That's nothing, we use Popo snipers on cows around here. http://billingsgazette.com/news/loca...12f7ec07c.html __________________ Adventure is dangerous....but monotony can kill you.
Posts: 70,480

08-22-2012, 09:16 PM	#328
Aries Walker Back again, again. Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: York, PA Casino cash: $9503357	Dear people who think they should have shot the legs: When, during that video, should one of the police shouted out "Shoot for the legs"? There was no time elapsed between the aggressive move and the first shot. If all of those police are trained to wait for the aggressive move, then the command, then for them to hear the command, then for their minds to process the command, then for their hands to aim south, then the firing, that's more time for the aggressive move to play out. That would place the object of his move in more danger. Also, how would they know that every policeman would hear it? They were on opposite sides of him (including at least one behind the bush on the left). Who would give that order? I imagine that the one in charge was the one trying to talk the guy down. Should s/he stop and start shouting commands, mid-sentence? Suppose the mentally unstable guy with the knife heard the command. Now he knows not only that they are about to shoot, but that they're not willing to shoot to kill. Okay, so you train your police officers to shoot the legs in some situations. What's the line? If it's distance - say, 20 feet - can those cops, under considerable stress, judge whether they're 18, 20, or 22 feet away, without resorting to a tape measure? Do you have them go for the leg shot if there are three or more police on site? If they guy's on drugs; how would they know? Is that an eight-inch knife, or just six? Is he alone? Do you know him? Or would you just have them always shoot the legs? No. You would not. Police officers are frequently outnumbered, outgunned, and in hostile environments with a lot of moving parts in action during a life-or-death moment. When the time comes for them to take action, they should take swift and sure action and preserve their own safety, and the safety of other people nearby. In other words, don't shoot the leg. That said, the way to have ended this should have been through less-lethal weapons. If those police didn't have tasers, and maybe a beanbag gun in every police cruiser trunk, they should have.
Posts: 8,213