Chiefs Steelers Guard.

Demonpenz · 01-17-2017, 02:57 AM

Anyone know why he wasn't flagged for never being set also jumping up out of his stance sometime? That was weird as ****

Nickhead · 01-17-2017, 03:28 AM

im glad you asked. i was wondering too.. i THINK officials after the first quarter warned them that they were bordering on false starts. they slowed down. my gripe is the defense didn't pick up on it and jump the count.

ffs, i could have had a two step lead on that offense by timing their false cadence.

Nickhead · 01-17-2017, 03:31 AM

i think given the nfl favors offenses the way they do, there should be a rule in place next year that you cannot aid the qb in the snap count. if you can't tell everyone the snap is on the one second mark of the play clock, you can't cheat like that. don't get me wrong, it was smart as **** on the steelers part. but that was cleary 30 false starts in a row

KranzDictum · 01-17-2017, 12:43 PM

It was their silent cadence, Rapist didn't call them to set until after the last time he did that with around 10 seconds on the clock.

Lots of teams now use the guard to set the O then pass the rest of the snap over to the Center and QB.

Used to be in silent cadences it was the Center who determined when to set and then he would spike the ball but he already has a lot on his plate blocking and snapping wise so a couple years ago teams moved over to having the Guard do it. The Broncos usually have the LG tap the center on the leg as a signal to start the silent cadence but I guess it is easier for everyone to see the guard standing up at the 10 second mark.

Actually back in the mid eighty's QB's would start the cadence by lifting his leg, some teams still do that.

Rasputin · 01-17-2017, 12:49 PM

OMG I was wondering the same thing why didn't they call them false starts?

I thought they are supposed to be set before the ball is snapped unless they changed the rules just for the Steelers.

KranzDictum · 01-17-2017, 01:02 PM

I found this article here:

Keep in mind when reading that the Guard Stood up and everyone was set well before they snapped the ball, all they need is one second. That is why it wasn't a FS flag. A lot of time when they did it there were still 10 seconds on the clock and I bet after the guard got into his stance other factors between Ben and the Center were in play.

It is long but good so here are some excerpts, won't shock you to see who is a key player in the article:

After years of trial and error, of ill-conceived high-tech solutions and rules changes, here was the elegant answer: timing. Instead of having the quarterback call out the count, he handed the responsibility to the center. He simply tapped the center on the butt when he was ready to receive the ball. The center then lifted his head to look squarely at the defensive player in front of him, signaling to the line that the silent snap count had started. He and the linemen would then count to themselves, "One-one-thousand," and the center would snap the ball.

It was so simple, it was beautiful. As soon as the center lifted his head, the other linemen could turn their heads toward the defenders, count one-one-thousand and go. To mix things up, the rhythm of the silent count was varied. In the huddle, the center was instructed to snap either one count after the signal or two. Football being the ultimate macho sport, the code became c--k for one and balls for two.

Mudd had been around the NFL long enough to know that a new idea, even a great one, would be a hard sell. Football is a conservative sport.
...
A COACH WITH a great idea is nothing without a great player. Glenn was the genius Mudd had been waiting for. "He was the best," Mudd says. "The best ever."

A first-round draft pick in 1997, Glenn spent his first year discovering that blocking NFL defensive ends was hard under ordinary circumstances, but when he couldn't hear, it was nearly impossible. Manning arrived the following year and was understandably frustrated when defensive ends kept hitting him like freight trains from his blind side. Mudd remembers hearing the quarterback chew out Glenn on the sideline during one game and stepping up to defend his tackle. "Tarik can't hear you," Mudd told Manning.

"Well, he should be able to hear," Manning complained. "It's not that loud."

"That's bull----," Mudd said.

"Well, [tackle Adam] Meadows can hear!"

"You are not in charge of deciding what Tarik can hear and what he can't hear!" Mudd told him.

Mudd prevailed on his skeptical coach, Jim Mora, to let him drill the players on the silent count at every practice. If deaf kids could do it, Mudd told the players, pros could too. And he was right. In time Manning became a fervent convert.

"I was wrong, and Howard was right," Manning says. "It was my responsibility to make sure all the linemen could hear me, and it was especially difficult for us because we were using a no-huddle offense most of the time. The silent count solved a lot of problems for us."

The Colts got good at it. Glenn got very good at it. He learned to coordinate the count with the swivel of his head. It was like a dance move. "It made a huge difference," he says. "It gave me time to face the task at hand. It's all about timing, and pretty quick I could just feel it." In fact Glenn started getting off the snap so fast that refs flagged him, claiming he had jumped too early. Mudd defended him. "He would send a man to the league office and have them review it," says Glenn. "After a while they started to see that I wasn't offside. Coach Howard didn't just come up with the silent count, he sold it, to the team and then to the league."

Soon Manning and Saturday were using the silent count for every snap on the road, and they even used it in their own domed stadium when things got too loud. Manning by then was famous for gesticulating and shouting instructions from the backfield before the snap of the ball. With the silent count he didn't have to worry about inadvertently triggering—√† la Baab—the snap. Once he had things set the way he wanted, he would tap or signal Saturday, and the silent count would take over. "He could also do more to manipulate the defense with his leg, given that they had to anticipate the snap so much more intensely," the retired center recalls.

Manning noticed another advantage. "Our timing got so good with it," he says, "we were getting fewer offensive penalties on the road than at home." The silent count was not just a remedy for the noise problem; it was also a secret weapon. During Mudd's 12 years in Indianapolis, his offensive line allowed fewer sacks than any other in the NFL, even though Manning's offense relied on passing. The Colts won the Super Bowl in 2007.
...
"The rule says that the center has to come to a complete stop for a full second before the ball is snapped," said Fisher. He went on about it for some time, making the same point: It wasn't fair!

Eventually Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren, an old offensive coordinator, started chuckling. "Jeff, when are you supposed to go on defense anyway?" he asked.

"Well, they are drawing us offside, and they are not supposed to," argued Fisher.

"Jeff, when are you supposed to go on defense?" Holmgren repeated.

"They are not coming to a full stop!"

"Jeff, when are you supposed to go?"

Finally Fisher conceded, "When the ball goes."

Howard Mudd's revolution was complete.

Complaints like Fisher's didn't go away immediately. The next year the NFL circulated a memo instructing centers to stop moving their heads a full second before snapping the ball. Otherwise refs would flag them for illegal motion. It sounded like a small thing, but the Colts had perfected the rhythm of the silent count and did not want to mess with it. So they ignored the memo. Refs found the new rule too difficult to enforce, and it went the way of flags for excessive crowd noise.

More here: http://www.si.com/vault/2013/09/02/1...lent-treatment

PACHIEFSFAN · 01-17-2017, 01:12 PM

As stated by KranzDictum, the Steelers were using a silent snap and the guard watches for the signal from the QB and will tap the hip of the center to let him know the QB is ready for the snap. Seems every time the guard tapped the center's hip, he snapped the ball. But why the KC line didn't use this to their advance is a mystery. They could have timed it to get a jump on the oline. Seems then the Steelers would have to change up the cadence, which could result in false starts.

KranzDictum · 01-17-2017, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PACHIEFSFAN

As stated by KranzDictum, the Steelers were using a silent snap and the guard watches for the signal from the QB and will tap the hip of the center to let him know the QB is ready for the snap. Seems every time the guard tapped the center's hip, he snapped the ball. But why the KC line didn't use this to their advance is a mystery. They could have timed it to get a jump on the oline. Seems then the Steelers would have to change up the cadence, which could result in false starts.

It was probably easier for him to see the rapist back there without having to look through his legs. They also probably said in the huddle he was going to stand twice before the cadence engaged. Just another step to keep the pass rush from timing the snap.

NJChiefsFan · 01-17-2017, 02:19 PM

Detroit did that in Seattle as well. Actually should have helped kc since or defensive players could see him slap the center to spike the ball

KranzDictum · 01-17-2017, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

Detroit did that in Seattle as well. Actually should have helped kc since or defensive players could see him slap the center to spike the ball

Again the slap doesn't initiate the snap, it does start the count, without knowing if they went on 1, 2, or 3 going on the slap wouldn't help at all.

Really teams have been doing this stuff for decades. It is nothing new.

Prison Bitch · 01-17-2017, 04:02 PM

Prob because Poe was too hungry to care about the game, lard butt is worthless

KranzDictum · 01-17-2017, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Prob because Poe was too hungry to care about the game, lard butt is worthless

Why bag on Poe? Dee Ford and Hali were ineffective and they had Houston out in coverage most of the night. It was like they didn't even want to try to pressure Ben because he is hard to get down so they decided to flood the coverage. Might have worked if their extra dude wasn't a LB fighting swelling in his knees and too slow to matchup to the speed of the Pitt receivers/TE's.

There were also 2 DE's flanking Poe who were destroyed most plays.

Kman34 · 01-17-2017, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KranzDictum

Again the slap doesn't initiate the snap, it does start the count, without knowing if they went on 1, 2, or 3 going on the slap wouldn't help at all.

Really teams have been doing this stuff for decades. It is nothing new.

This.. see this all over the league...

**Easy 6** · 01-17-2017, 07:14 PM

The steeler line got away with bloody murder, some might say thats just an excuse for the loss... to that I would say what excuse did the refs have for not calling even ONE hold on them the entire game?

The old NFL truism is "refs could call holding on every single play", so how is it they couldnt catch the steelers doing it even ONCE?

01-17-2017, 02:57 AM
Demonpenz Woman should only make babies Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $-193864	Steelers Guard. Anyone know why he wasn't flagged for never being set also jumping up out of his stance sometime? That was weird as ****
Posts: 54,934

01-17-2017, 03:28 AM	#2
Nickhead EvOlVeD Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Blue Mountains, Australia Casino cash: $-700132	im glad you asked. i was wondering too.. i THINK officials after the first quarter warned them that they were bordering on false starts. they slowed down. my gripe is the defense didn't pick up on it and jump the count. ffs, i could have had a two step lead on that offense by timing their false cadence.
Posts: 8,528

01-17-2017, 03:31 AM	#3
Nickhead EvOlVeD Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Blue Mountains, Australia Casino cash: $-700132	i think given the nfl favors offenses the way they do, there should be a rule in place next year that you cannot aid the qb in the snap count. if you can't tell everyone the snap is on the one second mark of the play clock, you can't cheat like that. don't get me wrong, it was smart as **** on the steelers part. but that was cleary 30 false starts in a row
Posts: 8,528

01-17-2017, 12:43 PM	#4
KranzDictum Veteran Join Date: Sep 2016 Casino cash: $10000400	It was their silent cadence, Rapist didn't call them to set until after the last time he did that with around 10 seconds on the clock. Lots of teams now use the guard to set the O then pass the rest of the snap over to the Center and QB. Used to be in silent cadences it was the Center who determined when to set and then he would spike the ball but he already has a lot on his plate blocking and snapping wise so a couple years ago teams moved over to having the Guard do it. The Broncos usually have the LG tap the center on the leg as a signal to start the silent cadence but I guess it is easier for everyone to see the guard standing up at the 10 second mark. Actually back in the mid eighty's QB's would start the cadence by lifting his leg, some teams still do that.
Posts: 1,760

01-17-2017, 12:49 PM	#5
Rasputin Tip of the hat LIV Champs Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ks Casino cash: $235421	OMG I was wondering the same thing why didn't they call them false starts? I thought they are supposed to be set before the ball is snapped unless they changed the rules just for the Steelers.
Posts: 56,906

01-17-2017, 01:02 PM	#6
KranzDictum Veteran Join Date: Sep 2016 Casino cash: $10000400	I found this article here: Keep in mind when reading that the Guard Stood up and everyone was set well before they snapped the ball, all they need is one second. That is why it wasn't a FS flag. A lot of time when they did it there were still 10 seconds on the clock and I bet after the guard got into his stance other factors between Ben and the Center were in play. It is long but good so here are some excerpts, won't shock you to see who is a key player in the article: After years of trial and error, of ill-conceived high-tech solutions and rules changes, here was the elegant answer: timing. Instead of having the quarterback call out the count, he handed the responsibility to the center. He simply tapped the center on the butt when he was ready to receive the ball. The center then lifted his head to look squarely at the defensive player in front of him, signaling to the line that the silent snap count had started. He and the linemen would then count to themselves, "One-one-thousand," and the center would snap the ball. It was so simple, it was beautiful. As soon as the center lifted his head, the other linemen could turn their heads toward the defenders, count one-one-thousand and go. To mix things up, the rhythm of the silent count was varied. In the huddle, the center was instructed to snap either one count after the signal or two. Football being the ultimate macho sport, the code became c--k for one and balls for two. Mudd had been around the NFL long enough to know that a new idea, even a great one, would be a hard sell. Football is a conservative sport. ... A COACH WITH a great idea is nothing without a great player. Glenn was the genius Mudd had been waiting for. "He was the best," Mudd says. "The best ever." A first-round draft pick in 1997, Glenn spent his first year discovering that blocking NFL defensive ends was hard under ordinary circumstances, but when he couldn't hear, it was nearly impossible. Manning arrived the following year and was understandably frustrated when defensive ends kept hitting him like freight trains from his blind side. Mudd remembers hearing the quarterback chew out Glenn on the sideline during one game and stepping up to defend his tackle. "Tarik can't hear you," Mudd told Manning. "Well, he should be able to hear," Manning complained. "It's not that loud." "That's bull----," Mudd said. "Well, [tackle Adam] Meadows can hear!" "You are not in charge of deciding what Tarik can hear and what he can't hear!" Mudd told him. Mudd prevailed on his skeptical coach, Jim Mora, to let him drill the players on the silent count at every practice. If deaf kids could do it, Mudd told the players, pros could too. And he was right. In time Manning became a fervent convert. "I was wrong, and Howard was right," Manning says. "It was my responsibility to make sure all the linemen could hear me, and it was especially difficult for us because we were using a no-huddle offense most of the time. The silent count solved a lot of problems for us." The Colts got good at it. Glenn got very good at it. He learned to coordinate the count with the swivel of his head. It was like a dance move. "It made a huge difference," he says. "It gave me time to face the task at hand. It's all about timing, and pretty quick I could just feel it." In fact Glenn started getting off the snap so fast that refs flagged him, claiming he had jumped too early. Mudd defended him. "He would send a man to the league office and have them review it," says Glenn. "After a while they started to see that I wasn't offside. Coach Howard didn't just come up with the silent count, he sold it, to the team and then to the league." Soon Manning and Saturday were using the silent count for every snap on the road, and they even used it in their own domed stadium when things got too loud. Manning by then was famous for gesticulating and shouting instructions from the backfield before the snap of the ball. With the silent count he didn't have to worry about inadvertently triggering—√† la Baab—the snap. Once he had things set the way he wanted, he would tap or signal Saturday, and the silent count would take over. "He could also do more to manipulate the defense with his leg, given that they had to anticipate the snap so much more intensely," the retired center recalls. Manning noticed another advantage. "Our timing got so good with it," he says, "we were getting fewer offensive penalties on the road than at home." The silent count was not just a remedy for the noise problem; it was also a secret weapon. During Mudd's 12 years in Indianapolis, his offensive line allowed fewer sacks than any other in the NFL, even though Manning's offense relied on passing. The Colts won the Super Bowl in 2007. ... "The rule says that the center has to come to a complete stop for a full second before the ball is snapped," said Fisher. He went on about it for some time, making the same point: It wasn't fair! Eventually Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren, an old offensive coordinator, started chuckling. "Jeff, when are you supposed to go on defense anyway?" he asked. "Well, they are drawing us offside, and they are not supposed to," argued Fisher. "Jeff, when are you supposed to go on defense?" Holmgren repeated. "They are not coming to a full stop!" "Jeff, when are you supposed to go?" Finally Fisher conceded, "When the ball goes." Howard Mudd's revolution was complete. Complaints like Fisher's didn't go away immediately. The next year the NFL circulated a memo instructing centers to stop moving their heads a full second before snapping the ball. Otherwise refs would flag them for illegal motion. It sounded like a small thing, but the Colts had perfected the rhythm of the silent count and did not want to mess with it. So they ignored the memo. Refs found the new rule too difficult to enforce, and it went the way of flags for excessive crowd noise. More here: http://www.si.com/vault/2013/09/02/1...lent-treatment
Posts: 1,760

01-17-2017, 01:12 PM	#7
PACHIEFSFAN Spelunker Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Federal Lockup Casino cash: $10013162	As stated by KranzDictum, the Steelers were using a silent snap and the guard watches for the signal from the QB and will tap the hip of the center to let him know the QB is ready for the snap. Seems every time the guard tapped the center's hip, he snapped the ball. But why the KC line didn't use this to their advance is a mystery. They could have timed it to get a jump on the oline. Seems then the Steelers would have to change up the cadence, which could result in false starts. __________________ I woke up this morning and found I was alive. I thinks it's going to be a good day!! arljay
Posts: 8,159

01-17-2017, 02:19 PM	#9
NJChiefsFan I've Made a Huge Mistake Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: NJ Casino cash: $4500423	Detroit did that in Seattle as well. Actually should have helped kc since or defensive players could see him slap the center to spike the ball
Posts: 12,495

01-17-2017, 04:02 PM	#11
Prison Bitch Rabbi Goldmann Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $5450159	Prob because Poe was too hungry to care about the game, lard butt is worthless
Posts: 87,025

01-17-2017, 07:14 PM	#14
Easy 6 pie is never free Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: the drivers seat Casino cash: $47775	The steeler line got away with bloody murder, some might say thats just an excuse for the loss... to that I would say what excuse did the refs have for not calling even ONE hold on them the entire game? The old NFL truism is "refs could call holding on every single play", so how is it they couldnt catch the steelers doing it even ONCE?
Posts: 98,233