Green scheduled to practice once daily...

Chiefs Pantalones · 07-19-2001, 10:24 PM

when TC starts.

kcstar.com, Chiefs page.

Chiefs Pantalones · 07-19-2001, 10:26 PM

but DV will increase the work load once they feel they can.

CG

GO CHIEFS!!!!!!

Packfan · 07-20-2001, 01:42 PM

And the Chiefs traded the 12th pick in the draft for this guy.....

Damaged goods! What was Carl thinking? There are Trent Green look-a-likes FREE every year in free agency. Baltimore, Tampa, Denver, and San Diego got theirs for free, why did the Chiefs have to give up the 12th pick in the draft??

shakesthecat · 07-20-2001, 02:05 PM

sigh :o

**Baby Lee** · 07-20-2001, 02:09 PM

[quote] why did the Chiefs have to give up the 12th pick in the draft?? [/quote]

Why did Yoko have to be in the studio? You want John, you get Yoko. You want Vermiel, you get Green.

Packfan · 07-20-2001, 02:25 PM

JC Johnny,

OK, then why did the Chiefs want Vermeil? A 64 year old "burned out" ex coach that is coming into a situation where the Chiefs are at least a couple of years from challenging? And giving up a 2nd round pick for him?

Its no wonder this franchise hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years. They arent very smart.

LD for KC · 07-20-2001, 03:08 PM

I don't want to be the one who says "kick Collins to the curb" but he sure has been comfortable with that clipboard along time. Maybe it's time to offer Dilfer a "fight to the death contract", to compete against Brister/Collins for the backup spot. I can't see this being anything but a win/win for the Chiefs.

LD for KC

Packfan · 07-20-2001, 03:11 PM

Not a bad idea. However, Dilfer wants to start and regardless of how good or bad Trent Green is, he is starting. Carl doesnt want to be the guy that traded the 12th pick in the draft for a backup QB (even though thats what Green has been most of his career).

Like they did with Elvis, the Chiefs are going to sink or swim with Trent Green.

07-20-2001, 03:19 PM

Carl sucks blah blah blah, gunther sucks blah blah blah,vermeil is oldblah blah blah, Elvis sucksblah blah blah, green sucksblah blah blah.

Pack, what do you think about Carl's decision making? does it suck?

KCJohnny · 07-20-2001, 05:45 PM

I agree about Carl's pride, but what about the #2 pick who has never had more than 11 carries in a game (Cloud)?

If you draft a guy high, at least give a chance to prove himself.

LD for KC · 07-20-2001, 06:44 PM

Packfan: I agree about the "saving face". But not many QBs can get through a full season without some down time. It happened to Green before, and Warner stepped in. Don't you think Dilfer remembers that too?

"All things come to he who SIGNS, and waits"!

LD for KC

**Dave Lane** · 07-20-2001, 11:27 PM

KCJ - All you have to do is watch Cloud in preseason or in a game (OK he did alright in Oakland) to know you don't have anything there. The guy completely sucks, Rashan Salaam looked bettter than he ever will.

Packfan, I'd have traded maybe up to the 5th pick for Green. The knee is no issue. He's NO other injuries than the knee 2 years ago. He's better than anyone out there (that's available) And I'd rather have him than some strikeout candidate like Vick or Brees. QBs are tough to draft and the failure rate is WAY up there. Green is a known commodity (don't anyone start on the well he's only started x number of games, the talent is there and if you watch last years Rams highlights you can't help but be impressed). I'd trade the #1 pick for a known Pro-Bowl caliber QB any day of the week. We got Green for a #12 pick and got back a 5th and Horne I promise you this a bargain of Biblical proportions. To me Carl has really proved he is adaptable and pulled numerous rabbits out of his hat this offseason. I know you disagree because you hate Carl so blindly, but I think Carl has redeemed himself in my eyes this offseason.

Packfan · 07-21-2001, 09:15 AM

Dave,

Here is my take on the Green trade:

Every offseason, guys like Green are available through free agency. When I say a guy like Green, I mean a decent QB. Lets face it, Green is 8-11 as a starter. I think I am being generous when I call him decent. Here are some of the guys that have been available to the Chiefs for FREE the last couple of years:

Trent Green (yes, he came to STL as a FA)
Randall Cunningham
Elvis Grbac
Rich Gannon
Steve Buerlein
Vinny Testeverde
Doug Flutie

These are players that are the same caliber as Trent Green. NOT ONE (except for Green himself) was acquired via a trade. You simply do not pay for something you can get for free. Sure most of the QBs were gone by the time Elvis decided he wanted to play elsewhere. What the Chiefs SHOULD have done is signed Buerline for a year, draft a running back of defensive lineman, and then expect another high pick next year. Chances are, there will be another crop of journeymen QBs like the list above available to needy teams NEXT offseason. The last time the Chiefs drafted as high as 12th, the pick turned into Tony G. Before that it was Derrick Thomas. The Chiefs overpaid, plain and simple. Congratulations to the Rams, shame on the Chiefs (once again).

Many regard Elvis Grbac as a better player than Trent Green. The Ravens got him for nothing. The Chiefs gave up the 12th pick in the draft for Green. The Ravens have better things to do with their draft picks like getting Ray Lewis and Jamie Sharper. The Chiefs use their picks to get Trent Green and Dick Vermeil.

You and other fans want to know why this franchise hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years? How about a decade of silly moves like this one. Thats why.

**Dave Lane** · 07-21-2001, 11:02 AM

Ken,

You are missing several things here.

1) Trent Green has made progress over the years as a QB. This happens alot. Favre sucked when he got started in Green Bay and the list could go on ad naseum.

2) We got Green without having to suffer through what the Seahags will suffer through this year with a totally inexperianced QB.

3) Green is completely familiar with this offense. No learning curve for Buerline or Brister.

4) A #12 pick does not guarantee you a Pro Bowl caliber player. TG and DT were the exceptions. Granted you get a better shot at a good young rookie but I'd guess 80% of first rounders never make the Pro-Bowl or an impact in the league. Look at Hicks as a undrafted FA. Defensive players are MUCH easier to come by as a undrafted FA or through FA. Defenses can be built quickly while good offenses are quite rare. Hence a Pro-Bowl caliber QB has a major premium.

5) Most of the QBs you mentioned happened to develop into a better QB AFTER they took over at a team than before. Cunningham prehaps was the lone non-contributor. I think you could have had Vinny for a couple of boxtops and a bubblegum wrapper at several points in his career. Gannon was a journeyman at best and despite what Denise may think is nothing special. Green has that chance. He towers above all the other OK QB's in your list, record not withstanding. Wait till the season starts. Unless he gets his second injury he will prove me right.

Luzap · 07-21-2001, 12:08 PM

Well said Dave.

There are those that won't be happy untill we sacrifice one or two seasons for high draft picks so that we can maybe build a homegrown championship team.

I do not believe that this is the path to success in today's NFL.

Today, once a team goes to the cellar, it is very difficult to pull out of it.

Luz
the team's strategy this year has been stellar...

07-19-2001, 10:24 PM
Chiefs Pantalones GO CHIEFS!!!!!! Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $6888717	Green scheduled to practice once daily... when TC starts. kcstar.com, Chiefs page.
Posts: 26,653

07-19-2001, 10:26 PM	#2
Chiefs Pantalones GO CHIEFS!!!!!! Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $6888717	but DV will increase the work load once they feel they can. CG GO CHIEFS!!!!!! __________________ Don't be fooled by my username, I'm white.
Posts: 26,653

07-20-2001, 01:42 PM	#3
Packfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI, Door Casino cash: $10004900	And the Chiefs traded the 12th pick in the draft for this guy..... Damaged goods! What was Carl thinking? There are Trent Green look-a-likes FREE every year in free agency. Baltimore, Tampa, Denver, and San Diego got theirs for free, why did the Chiefs have to give up the 12th pick in the draft?? __________________ Ken Dienberg
Posts: 938

07-20-2001, 02:05 PM	#4
shakesthecat Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: IA Casino cash: $1933833	sigh :o
Posts: 3,360

07-20-2001, 02:09 PM	#5
Baby Lee Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $8038275	[quote] why did the Chiefs have to give up the 12th pick in the draft?? [/quote] Why did Yoko have to be in the studio? You want John, you get Yoko. You want Vermiel, you get Green.
Posts: 95,642

07-20-2001, 02:25 PM	#6
Packfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI, Door Casino cash: $10004900	JC Johnny, OK, then why did the Chiefs want Vermeil? A 64 year old "burned out" ex coach that is coming into a situation where the Chiefs are at least a couple of years from challenging? And giving up a 2nd round pick for him? Its no wonder this franchise hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years. They arent very smart. __________________ Ken Dienberg
Posts: 938

07-20-2001, 03:08 PM	#7
LD for KC Starter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Flagstaff AZ Casino cash: $10004900	I don't want to be the one who says "kick Collins to the curb" but he sure has been comfortable with that clipboard along time. Maybe it's time to offer Dilfer a "fight to the death contract", to compete against Brister/Collins for the backup spot. I can't see this being anything but a win/win for the Chiefs. LD for KC __________________ Just cause you HAVE one, don't mean you gota BE one.
Posts: 349

07-20-2001, 03:11 PM	#8
Packfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI, Door Casino cash: $10004900	Not a bad idea. However, Dilfer wants to start and regardless of how good or bad Trent Green is, he is starting. Carl doesnt want to be the guy that traded the 12th pick in the draft for a backup QB (even though thats what Green has been most of his career). Like they did with Elvis, the Chiefs are going to sink or swim with Trent Green. __________________ Ken Dienberg
Posts: 938

07-20-2001, 03:19 PM	#9
Iowanian Guest Casino cash: $	Carl sucks blah blah blah, gunther sucks blah blah blah,vermeil is oldblah blah blah, Elvis sucksblah blah blah, green sucksblah blah blah. Pack, what do you think about Carl's decision making? does it suck?
Posts: n/a

07-20-2001, 05:45 PM	#10
KCJohnny Blind, deceived homer Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Maryland, USA Casino cash: $10004900	I agree about Carl's pride, but what about the #2 pick who has never had more than 11 carries in a game (Cloud)? If you draft a guy high, at least give a chance to prove himself.
Posts: 6,347

07-20-2001, 06:44 PM	#11
LD for KC Starter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Flagstaff AZ Casino cash: $10004900	Packfan: I agree about the "saving face". But not many QBs can get through a full season without some down time. It happened to Green before, and Warner stepped in. Don't you think Dilfer remembers that too? "All things come to he who SIGNS, and waits"! LD for KC __________________ Just cause you HAVE one, don't mean you gota BE one.
Posts: 349

07-20-2001, 11:27 PM	#12
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	KCJ - All you have to do is watch Cloud in preseason or in a game (OK he did alright in Oakland) to know you don't have anything there. The guy completely sucks, Rashan Salaam looked bettter than he ever will. Packfan, I'd have traded maybe up to the 5th pick for Green. The knee is no issue. He's NO other injuries than the knee 2 years ago. He's better than anyone out there (that's available) And I'd rather have him than some strikeout candidate like Vick or Brees. QBs are tough to draft and the failure rate is WAY up there. Green is a known commodity (don't anyone start on the well he's only started x number of games, the talent is there and if you watch last years Rams highlights you can't help but be impressed). I'd trade the #1 pick for a known Pro-Bowl caliber QB any day of the week. We got Green for a #12 pick and got back a 5th and Horne I promise you this a bargain of Biblical proportions. To me Carl has really proved he is adaptable and pulled numerous rabbits out of his hat this offseason. I know you disagree because you hate Carl so blindly, but I think Carl has redeemed himself in my eyes this offseason. __________________ Thanks, Trump for the civics lesson. We are learning so much about RICO, espionage, sedition, impeachment, the 25th Amendment, order of succession, nepotism, separation of powers, 1st Amendment, obstruction of justice, the emoluments clause, conflicts of interest, collusion, sanctions, oligarchs, money laundering and so much more.
Posts: 40,584

07-21-2001, 09:15 AM	#13
Packfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI, Door Casino cash: $10004900	Dave, Here is my take on the Green trade: Every offseason, guys like Green are available through free agency. When I say a guy like Green, I mean a decent QB. Lets face it, Green is 8-11 as a starter. I think I am being generous when I call him decent. Here are some of the guys that have been available to the Chiefs for FREE the last couple of years: Trent Green (yes, he came to STL as a FA) Randall Cunningham Elvis Grbac Rich Gannon Steve Buerlein Vinny Testeverde Doug Flutie These are players that are the same caliber as Trent Green. NOT ONE (except for Green himself) was acquired via a trade. You simply do not pay for something you can get for free. Sure most of the QBs were gone by the time Elvis decided he wanted to play elsewhere. What the Chiefs SHOULD have done is signed Buerline for a year, draft a running back of defensive lineman, and then expect another high pick next year. Chances are, there will be another crop of journeymen QBs like the list above available to needy teams NEXT offseason. The last time the Chiefs drafted as high as 12th, the pick turned into Tony G. Before that it was Derrick Thomas. The Chiefs overpaid, plain and simple. Congratulations to the Rams, shame on the Chiefs (once again). Many regard Elvis Grbac as a better player than Trent Green. The Ravens got him for nothing. The Chiefs gave up the 12th pick in the draft for Green. The Ravens have better things to do with their draft picks like getting Ray Lewis and Jamie Sharper. The Chiefs use their picks to get Trent Green and Dick Vermeil. You and other fans want to know why this franchise hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years? How about a decade of silly moves like this one. Thats why. __________________ Ken Dienberg
Posts: 938

07-21-2001, 11:02 AM	#14
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	Green's worth Ken, You are missing several things here. 1) Trent Green has made progress over the years as a QB. This happens alot. Favre sucked when he got started in Green Bay and the list could go on ad naseum. 2) We got Green without having to suffer through what the Seahags will suffer through this year with a totally inexperianced QB. 3) Green is completely familiar with this offense. No learning curve for Buerline or Brister. 4) A #12 pick does not guarantee you a Pro Bowl caliber player. TG and DT were the exceptions. Granted you get a better shot at a good young rookie but I'd guess 80% of first rounders never make the Pro-Bowl or an impact in the league. Look at Hicks as a undrafted FA. Defensive players are MUCH easier to come by as a undrafted FA or through FA. Defenses can be built quickly while good offenses are quite rare. Hence a Pro-Bowl caliber QB has a major premium. 5) Most of the QBs you mentioned happened to develop into a better QB AFTER they took over at a team than before. Cunningham prehaps was the lone non-contributor. I think you could have had Vinny for a couple of boxtops and a bubblegum wrapper at several points in his career. Gannon was a journeyman at best and despite what Denise may think is nothing special. Green has that chance. He towers above all the other OK QB's in your list, record not withstanding. Wait till the season starts. Unless he gets his second injury he will prove me right. __________________ Thanks, Trump for the civics lesson. We are learning so much about RICO, espionage, sedition, impeachment, the 25th Amendment, order of succession, nepotism, separation of powers, 1st Amendment, obstruction of justice, the emoluments clause, conflicts of interest, collusion, sanctions, oligarchs, money laundering and so much more.
Posts: 40,584

07-21-2001, 12:08 PM	#15
Luzap 9.89 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Dallas, TX Casino cash: $10004900	Well said Dave. There are those that won't be happy untill we sacrifice one or two seasons for high draft picks so that we can maybe build a homegrown championship team. I do not believe that this is the path to success in today's NFL. Today, once a team goes to the cellar, it is very difficult to pull out of it. Luz the team's strategy this year has been stellar...
Posts: 3,327

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