NFBT: Star Wars: A Look Back...

Gaz · 07-01-2005, 08:31 AM

Lucas has laid his epic to rest. So what is the overall verdict?

xoxo~
Gaz
Taking the long view.

jspchief · 07-01-2005, 08:39 AM

I had to go with Woo Hoo.

The final three were nowhere near the originals, but they were all decent and even the Phantom Menace had some memorable scenes.

The mediocrity of the the newer three can't take away the effect that the original ones had on me. In fact, after Star Wars, the other 5 could have sucked and it was still worth it to me.

tomahawk kid · 07-01-2005, 08:39 AM

The 3 most recent movies (Episodes I-III) never truly captured the essense of the original movies. I think this was for a variety of reasons, the biggest of which in my opinion is / was the Han Solo factor.

Lucas was unable to recreate a character like this in the newer movies and I think they suffered for it. Overall, I think the audience missed the quick whit and smart remarks that Han provided to the dialogue.

The other factor, in my opinion, is that Lucas has "lost it". Episodes I-III were not as well written as the Episodes IV - VI and his directing and casting decisions left alot to be desired.

I think the reason that New Hope, ESB and ROTJ were so good, was that Lucas only directed the first one.

Having said all that, it think "Revenge" is worlds better than "Phantom" or "Attack". It was a nice was to tie up loose ends and feeds directly into New Hope. I thought it was a much better movie than you did, but I can understand your arguements regarding the films shortcomings.

tyton75 · 07-01-2005, 08:40 AM

honestly.. if he made more.. I would go and watch them.. and you all would too

Gaz · 07-01-2005, 08:41 AM

“A New Hope”
Fresh, inventive and a joy to watch. Tons of rollicking fun.

“The Empire Strikes Back”
The best film of the series, IMO.

“Return of the Jedi”
A limp remake of “A New Hope” with teddy bears.

“The Phantom Menace”
A two-hour toy commercial. Jar-Jar Binks. Drek and crap.

“Attack of the Clones”
Better than “The Phantom Menace.”

“Revenge of the Sith”
The saga ends with a whimper instead of a bang.

While Lucas started out great, he peaked with “Empire,” and it has been a long, slow slide into mediocrity ever since. Taken as a whole, the Star Wars Saga is a disappointment. Despite amazing advances in technology and staggering amounts of money invested in the franchise, the promise of the first two films was lost in those that followed.

xoxo~
Gaz
Giving the Saga a reluctant thumbs down.

**Predarat** · 07-01-2005, 08:46 AM

I went with woo hoo because of the originals, especially New Hope and Empire. The prequal three were OK and did the job of telling the story, had good graphics and stuff but the character carisma and stuff was lacking. It wasnt enough to drag the originals down.

Gaz · 07-01-2005, 08:50 AM

Maybe I am “Eh…” because the series ended on such a downslide.

xoxo~
Gaz
Raised up and then cast down.

jspchief · 07-01-2005, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomahawk kid

I think this was for a variety of reasons, the biggest of which in my opinion is / was the Han Solo factor.

I think you're on to something, but I would take it a step further. The new ones didn't have a good set of protagonists. You knew Annikin was going to turn evil, so it was difficult to grow attached to him (not to mention the actor wasn't likable). All the other "good guys" seemed to be afterthoughts. Padme was as shallow as they come. Obi Wan was more of an annoying grandpa figure than a guy you really root for. Yoda is a sidekick. R2 was almost given too much of a role.

I think part of the successful recipe for good fantasy is a group of protagonists that team up to battle the cause. A group that includes several strong likeable characters, and a sidekick or two for comic relief. Episodes 1-3 didn't really have that to any extent. It was too disjointed.

**Saulbadguy** · 07-01-2005, 08:53 AM

Some of the movies I cared more for than the others, but overall, I love the story. I try not to think of them as movies, but an entire saga.

JimNasium · 07-01-2005, 08:56 AM

Count me in the "who cares" category. I liked the first two but never really got into the hype of the whole thing. I can take it or leave it.

Gaz · 07-01-2005, 09:06 AM

Would I really go see an Episode 7 after the limpness of Episodes 1-3?

Yes, I probably would. I would not be happy about it, I would wait until the crowds thinned out and I would go to a matinee. But I would probably go. I doubt even the stench of the prequel films could keep me away from a big-budget science fiction film.

I am SUCH a geek.

xoxo~
Gaz
Seriously lacking in spinal structure.

DJay23 · 07-01-2005, 09:11 AM

I'm a Star Wars geek from way back. My first action figures as a child were star wars, and I loved the movies as a kid. Once I got old enough to understand what was going on, I loved them even more.

The first movie was ground breaking for it's time, a well told story with decent dialogue (You can tell Lucas worked on that script for a while) and SOME good acting (Hammil and Fischer were pretty over the top and corny at times. Ford, of course, IMO was dead on). The story was great too. To me, Star Wars: A New Hope gets the number 2 slot in the overall trilogy.

The Empire Strikes Back. This has long been my favorite movie of all time. Not because it is necessarily a better movie than my runners up (Braveheart, Saving Private Ryan), but because of how it continued the story of the first movie, and pushed into a dramatic direction. The acting in this one was much better IMO (because of Kershner's direction) and the dialogue was about on par with the first. This movie was more "fun" too. You had a battle on an ice world with huge walking transports, battle in an asteroid field, trouble in a giant space worm, learning the ways of the force on a swamp planet, and action on a city in the clouds. The romance between Solo and Leia was well done too, IMO. Empire Strikes Back is the best of the 6 movies for me.

The Return of the Jedi. This was my favorite of the original trilogy for a long time, simply because it was the first one I remember seeing in the theater. I think the story here is still good, the redemption of the father, the son as the savior. The rescue of Han Solo was a good way to mesh Episode V to Episode VI, I liked the whole act. The scene on Dagobah where Yoda dies was good too, but after that, this movie lost me (in my more mature years). There could have been more time taken to think of another way to defeat the Empire once and for all than to destroy ANOTHER Death Star. You've done that already, try something else. And need I even mention Ewoks? The direction left something to be desired to me. I think it was clear that Marquand was out of his element. But what do i know, I'm no film student. The Return of the Jedi is my 4th favorite of the saga.

The Phantom Menace. Horrible. The beginning of the end of the franchise. I'll admit I was excited as anyone when it came out, and like the loyal boy I am, I tried to defend it in the years following it's release. But damnit, I can't take it. George's impatience (with actors, with finishing stories, with finishing scripts) really sunk this movie and started the tarnish on his once sparkling creation. I like the story well enough, it's just that it wasn't executed to screen well at all. This is the worst of the Star Wars movies.

Attack of the Clones. Only slightly more stomachable that the Phantom Menace. Lucas' impatience again turns what could have been a good story into a poorly done film. The choice of Hayden Christenson as a brooding, whining teenager was perfect for this particular movie. I've always loved Natalie Portman, I feel that she is a wonderful actress. However, whatever spark was supposed to be there between them couldn't light a gasoline soaked stick of dynamite. Lucas should have asked for help with the whole love story (maybe Kershner who managed to do a decent job in Episode V?) I really like McGregor as Obi wan, I think he played it well through the second trilogy in spite of George Lucas' direction. I also think George went a little TOO crazy with the CG. CG is supposed to enhance live action to be effective IMO. Lucas tried to do the opposite. Attack of the Clones is number 5 in the sextilogy (is that word?) for me.

Revenge of the Sith. Of the three prequels, by far and away the best. I liked the story again, and I thought it was at least a little better executed. Still, plenty of bad acting and no chemistry between Christenson and Portman. Like Gaz said, Hayden was a poor choice for this film. Though you want continuity, you also want someone who commands your respect as a hero. He just doesn't do it. Still seemed like the whiny bitch he was in the last movie, only now he's trying to pretend like he's tough. I loved the Emperor in this movie. I completely believed what he was doing throughout. McDiarmid is a fine actor. McGregor did a good job again I felt. What many people don't understand when they say he seems so bland and unemotional is that, that is the character. Obi wan is not emotional. He is the consummate Jedi. However, McGregor allows emotion to take over near the end of the movie, and at the right time, when everything starts to go wrong. I thought it was well done. This was my third favorite of the series. That may change with time and distance.

Overall, I love the whole story. The "Chosen One" who is not to be trained, is then trained, but seduced by evil because of his forbidden emotional attachment. He's then saved by his own son, fulfilling the prophecy. The execution of the story was flawed. The over use of CG, that constant tinkering and changing by Lucas of the originals, and the horrificly bad scripting and directing by Lucas in at least 3 of the 6 films has tainted the trilogy. It will long be remembered for it's impact on movie making and popular culture, but as movies, works of art, they are not the gold standard many Star Wars geeks would have us believe. These have been my opinions, but I'm sure the opinions of others have slipped in there. I'm not a movie critic after all, just a fan.

**DaneMcCloud** · 07-01-2005, 10:39 AM

I guess I'm one of the admitted few (even though it sold almost a billion dollars in tickets) that really enjoyed The Phantom Menace. I loved the Liam Neeson character and thought he was the epitome of what a Jedi Knight should have been. I really enjoyed the opening scene with Qui-Gon & Obi Wan, the pod race and the final battle. The final lightsaber battle with Darth Maul was the best of the series, IMO. Number 4 on my list.

Attack of the Clones was up and down for me. I really enjoyed the Obi Wan & Jango Fett scenes, but Hayden as Anakin really bugged me. Natalie Portman was almost unwatchable. The scenes on Kamino and the final lightsaber battle with Count Dooku saved the movie from being the worst in the saga. Number 5 on my list.

Revenge of the Sith was by far the best prequel and neatly wrapped up any questions from the original series without tying up absolutely everything. It's number three on my list.

A New Hope started it all, so it's hard to say it's the second best movie in the saga. A New Hope would have been a disappointment if it were a prequel to Empire though. Number 2.

Empire Strikes Back was THE Star Wars movie. Amazing dialog, tight direction and one of the most famous lines ever uttered on the big screen. It has even more impact after seeing Revenge of the Sith. Far and away, number 1 on my list.

Return of the Jedi was complete and utter crap. It took 20 minutes before the first human actor speaks! It's the muppet show gone wrong. It's a absolutely horrendus ending to an awesome saga and it's made even worse by Revenge of the Sith. Return had the opportunity to parallel Revenge and could have been the most interesting movie of all, but wasn't even in the same ballpark. I wish Lucas could erase that movie and write a new one. It sucked in 1983 and it's unwatchable now. Definitely number 6.

Dane

dollar1 · 07-01-2005, 12:50 PM

We'll see the last one out on tape tonight. I took my son to see the real last one at the theater coupla weeks ago.

But was it the "real" last one or is it the 3rd one. I saw the first one in '77. My Dad took me. Or did we see the 1st one (Menace) last week?

The are really enjoying all of them. They don't have any preconcieved notions while viewing them. All they look for is the Hoot Factor which all have to some degree.

~Back Under Rock~

Son of Logical · 07-01-2005, 01:58 PM

I voted Woo Hoo, because in total the series was great. I always liked return of the Jedi. It was the first movie I remember seeing when I was a kid, and it was excellent. I spent my childhood watching the three originals and love them all. I think Phantom Menace fell victim to its own hype. I did not like it the first time I saw it, but after watching it over again the more and more I like it. I really liked the Attack of the Clones. I do agree the chemistry wasn't there between Hayden and Natalie, but the overall movie was great. Finally, the Revenge of the Sith of was great. I really enjoyed it, I would put it in the same quality category as I do the original three. In all I think Lucas struggled to regain the original trilogy's level of greatness in the 1st and 2nd episode, but redeemed himself with the 3rd episode.

View Poll Results: What to you think of the Star Wars Saga?
WOO HOO!!!	23	54.76%
Eh…	15	35.71%
Yuck.	1	2.38%
Bite me Gaz, I am waiting for Episode 7.	3	7.14%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

07-01-2005, 08:31 AM
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	NFBT: Star Wars: A Look Back... Lucas has laid his epic to rest. So what is the overall verdict? xoxo~ Gaz Taking the long view.
Posts: 5,911

07-01-2005, 08:39 AM	#2
jspchief BAMF Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Your Face Casino cash: $9998710	I had to go with Woo Hoo. The final three were nowhere near the originals, but they were all decent and even the Phantom Menace had some memorable scenes. The mediocrity of the the newer three can't take away the effect that the original ones had on me. In fact, after Star Wars, the other 5 could have sucked and it was still worth it to me. __________________ Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all.
Posts: 27,207

07-01-2005, 08:39 AM	#3
tomahawk kid Drunk in the Neighborhood Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Beating the War Drums Casino cash: $10001837	The 3 most recent movies (Episodes I-III) never truly captured the essense of the original movies. I think this was for a variety of reasons, the biggest of which in my opinion is / was the Han Solo factor. Lucas was unable to recreate a character like this in the newer movies and I think they suffered for it. Overall, I think the audience missed the quick whit and smart remarks that Han provided to the dialogue. The other factor, in my opinion, is that Lucas has "lost it". Episodes I-III were not as well written as the Episodes IV - VI and his directing and casting decisions left alot to be desired. I think the reason that New Hope, ESB and ROTJ were so good, was that Lucas only directed the first one. Having said all that, it think "Revenge" is worlds better than "Phantom" or "Attack". It was a nice was to tie up loose ends and feeds directly into New Hope. I thought it was a much better movie than you did, but I can understand your arguements regarding the films shortcomings.
Posts: 5,974

07-01-2005, 08:40 AM	#4
tyton75 Veteran Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: KC North Casino cash: $3748386	honestly.. if he made more.. I would go and watch them.. and you all would too
Posts: 3,331

07-01-2005, 08:41 AM	#5
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	A shame... “A New Hope” Fresh, inventive and a joy to watch. Tons of rollicking fun. “The Empire Strikes Back” The best film of the series, IMO. “Return of the Jedi” A limp remake of “A New Hope” with teddy bears. “The Phantom Menace” A two-hour toy commercial. Jar-Jar Binks. Drek and crap. “Attack of the Clones” Better than “The Phantom Menace.” “Revenge of the Sith” The saga ends with a whimper instead of a bang. While Lucas started out great, he peaked with “Empire,” and it has been a long, slow slide into mediocrity ever since. Taken as a whole, the Star Wars Saga is a disappointment. Despite amazing advances in technology and staggering amounts of money invested in the franchise, the promise of the first two films was lost in those that followed. xoxo~ Gaz Giving the Saga a reluctant thumbs down.
Posts: 5,911

07-01-2005, 08:46 AM	#6
Predarat Run Chiefs fans, run!! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Casino cash: $9963863	I went with woo hoo because of the originals, especially New Hope and Empire. The prequal three were OK and did the job of telling the story, had good graphics and stuff but the character carisma and stuff was lacking. It wasnt enough to drag the originals down.
Posts: 10,776

07-01-2005, 08:50 AM	#7
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	Timing is everything... Maybe I am “Eh…” because the series ended on such a downslide. xoxo~ Gaz Raised up and then cast down.
Posts: 5,911

07-01-2005, 08:53 AM	#9
Saulbadguy When a nightmare becomes real Join Date: Nov 2003 Casino cash: $736966	Some of the movies I cared more for than the others, but overall, I love the story. I try not to think of them as movies, but an entire saga. __________________ http://www.goemaw.com
Posts: 47,020

07-01-2005, 08:56 AM	#10
JimNasium Voodoo Chile Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: At the crossroad Casino cash: $-893143	Count me in the "who cares" category. I liked the first two but never really got into the hype of the whole thing. I can take it or leave it. __________________ World class speed!
Posts: 7,136

07-01-2005, 09:06 AM	#11
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	Sorry to say... Would I really go see an Episode 7 after the limpness of Episodes 1-3? Yes, I probably would. I would not be happy about it, I would wait until the crowds thinned out and I would go to a matinee. But I would probably go. I doubt even the stench of the prequel films could keep me away from a big-budget science fiction film. I am SUCH a geek. xoxo~ Gaz Seriously lacking in spinal structure.
Posts: 5,911

07-01-2005, 09:11 AM	#12
DJay23 Rock Chalk Jayhawk Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: PA Casino cash: $-496683	I'm a Star Wars geek from way back. My first action figures as a child were star wars, and I loved the movies as a kid. Once I got old enough to understand what was going on, I loved them even more. The first movie was ground breaking for it's time, a well told story with decent dialogue (You can tell Lucas worked on that script for a while) and SOME good acting (Hammil and Fischer were pretty over the top and corny at times. Ford, of course, IMO was dead on). The story was great too. To me, Star Wars: A New Hope gets the number 2 slot in the overall trilogy. The Empire Strikes Back. This has long been my favorite movie of all time. Not because it is necessarily a better movie than my runners up (Braveheart, Saving Private Ryan), but because of how it continued the story of the first movie, and pushed into a dramatic direction. The acting in this one was much better IMO (because of Kershner's direction) and the dialogue was about on par with the first. This movie was more "fun" too. You had a battle on an ice world with huge walking transports, battle in an asteroid field, trouble in a giant space worm, learning the ways of the force on a swamp planet, and action on a city in the clouds. The romance between Solo and Leia was well done too, IMO. Empire Strikes Back is the best of the 6 movies for me. The Return of the Jedi. This was my favorite of the original trilogy for a long time, simply because it was the first one I remember seeing in the theater. I think the story here is still good, the redemption of the father, the son as the savior. The rescue of Han Solo was a good way to mesh Episode V to Episode VI, I liked the whole act. The scene on Dagobah where Yoda dies was good too, but after that, this movie lost me (in my more mature years). There could have been more time taken to think of another way to defeat the Empire once and for all than to destroy ANOTHER Death Star. You've done that already, try something else. And need I even mention Ewoks? The direction left something to be desired to me. I think it was clear that Marquand was out of his element. But what do i know, I'm no film student. The Return of the Jedi is my 4th favorite of the saga. The Phantom Menace. Horrible. The beginning of the end of the franchise. I'll admit I was excited as anyone when it came out, and like the loyal boy I am, I tried to defend it in the years following it's release. But damnit, I can't take it. George's impatience (with actors, with finishing stories, with finishing scripts) really sunk this movie and started the tarnish on his once sparkling creation. I like the story well enough, it's just that it wasn't executed to screen well at all. This is the worst of the Star Wars movies. Attack of the Clones. Only slightly more stomachable that the Phantom Menace. Lucas' impatience again turns what could have been a good story into a poorly done film. The choice of Hayden Christenson as a brooding, whining teenager was perfect for this particular movie. I've always loved Natalie Portman, I feel that she is a wonderful actress. However, whatever spark was supposed to be there between them couldn't light a gasoline soaked stick of dynamite. Lucas should have asked for help with the whole love story (maybe Kershner who managed to do a decent job in Episode V?) I really like McGregor as Obi wan, I think he played it well through the second trilogy in spite of George Lucas' direction. I also think George went a little TOO crazy with the CG. CG is supposed to enhance live action to be effective IMO. Lucas tried to do the opposite. Attack of the Clones is number 5 in the sextilogy (is that word?) for me. Revenge of the Sith. Of the three prequels, by far and away the best. I liked the story again, and I thought it was at least a little better executed. Still, plenty of bad acting and no chemistry between Christenson and Portman. Like Gaz said, Hayden was a poor choice for this film. Though you want continuity, you also want someone who commands your respect as a hero. He just doesn't do it. Still seemed like the whiny bitch he was in the last movie, only now he's trying to pretend like he's tough. I loved the Emperor in this movie. I completely believed what he was doing throughout. McDiarmid is a fine actor. McGregor did a good job again I felt. What many people don't understand when they say he seems so bland and unemotional is that, that is the character. Obi wan is not emotional. He is the consummate Jedi. However, McGregor allows emotion to take over near the end of the movie, and at the right time, when everything starts to go wrong. I thought it was well done. This was my third favorite of the series. That may change with time and distance. Overall, I love the whole story. The "Chosen One" who is not to be trained, is then trained, but seduced by evil because of his forbidden emotional attachment. He's then saved by his own son, fulfilling the prophecy. The execution of the story was flawed. The over use of CG, that constant tinkering and changing by Lucas of the originals, and the horrificly bad scripting and directing by Lucas in at least 3 of the 6 films has tainted the trilogy. It will long be remembered for it's impact on movie making and popular culture, but as movies, works of art, they are not the gold standard many Star Wars geeks would have us believe. These have been my opinions, but I'm sure the opinions of others have slipped in there. I'm not a movie critic after all, just a fan. __________________ "True bliss is not something you search for, true bliss is already living inside us all, and sometimes it takes a roomfull of others to lead us to the mirror of your soul." - CosmicPal (10-3-03)
Posts: 9,185

07-01-2005, 10:39 AM	#13
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	I guess I'm one of the admitted few (even though it sold almost a billion dollars in tickets) that really enjoyed The Phantom Menace. I loved the Liam Neeson character and thought he was the epitome of what a Jedi Knight should have been. I really enjoyed the opening scene with Qui-Gon & Obi Wan, the pod race and the final battle. The final lightsaber battle with Darth Maul was the best of the series, IMO. Number 4 on my list. Attack of the Clones was up and down for me. I really enjoyed the Obi Wan & Jango Fett scenes, but Hayden as Anakin really bugged me. Natalie Portman was almost unwatchable. The scenes on Kamino and the final lightsaber battle with Count Dooku saved the movie from being the worst in the saga. Number 5 on my list. Revenge of the Sith was by far the best prequel and neatly wrapped up any questions from the original series without tying up absolutely everything. It's number three on my list. A New Hope started it all, so it's hard to say it's the second best movie in the saga. A New Hope would have been a disappointment if it were a prequel to Empire though. Number 2. Empire Strikes Back was THE Star Wars movie. Amazing dialog, tight direction and one of the most famous lines ever uttered on the big screen. It has even more impact after seeing Revenge of the Sith. Far and away, number 1 on my list. Return of the Jedi was complete and utter crap. It took 20 minutes before the first human actor speaks! It's the muppet show gone wrong. It's a absolutely horrendus ending to an awesome saga and it's made even worse by Revenge of the Sith. Return had the opportunity to parallel Revenge and could have been the most interesting movie of all, but wasn't even in the same ballpark. I wish Lucas could erase that movie and write a new one. It sucked in 1983 and it's unwatchable now. Definitely number 6. Dane
Posts: 88,960

07-01-2005, 12:50 PM	#14
dollar1 Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hiawatha, KS Casino cash: $10004900	The whole numerology has scared my kids for life We'll see the last one out on tape tonight. I took my son to see the real last one at the theater coupla weeks ago. But was it the "real" last one or is it the 3rd one. I saw the first one in '77. My Dad took me. Or did we see the 1st one (Menace) last week? The are really enjoying all of them. They don't have any preconcieved notions while viewing them. All they look for is the Hoot Factor which all have to some degree. ~Back Under Rock~
Posts: 277

07-01-2005, 01:58 PM	#15
Son of Logical Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: California Casino cash: $9959900	I voted Woo Hoo, because in total the series was great. I always liked return of the Jedi. It was the first movie I remember seeing when I was a kid, and it was excellent. I spent my childhood watching the three originals and love them all. I think Phantom Menace fell victim to its own hype. I did not like it the first time I saw it, but after watching it over again the more and more I like it. I really liked the Attack of the Clones. I do agree the chemistry wasn't there between Hayden and Natalie, but the overall movie was great. Finally, the Revenge of the Sith of was great. I really enjoyed it, I would put it in the same quality category as I do the original three. In all I think Lucas struggled to regain the original trilogy's level of greatness in the 1st and 2nd episode, but redeemed himself with the 3rd episode.
Posts: 485