Flanagan Takes another shot at Elvis Backers

Mosbonian · 01-02-2001, 08:30 AM

Did anyone see the article by Jeffrey Flanagan taking a shot at Elvis backers(apologists)?

His article was a tongue in cheek piece but was a swipe at anyone who backed Elvis Grbac.

Good to see he still isn't into knowing more about the subjects he is prone to write about, it keeps up his tendencies.

mark
***********

DaWolf · 01-02-2001, 11:06 AM

Flanagan is an idiot. His solution to use every pick on a running back or every pick on a quarterback so that Carl could finally find a solution is pathetic. Let's just let the D get worse than it is so that we can hopefully find more offense by using every pick in our draft. Brilliant, Flanny! Better to be an Elvis apologist than a dumbass...

**Baby Lee** · 01-02-2001, 11:09 AM

What's the draft, six rounds? Sounds like a perfect way to assure at least five loser draft picks.

TEX · 01-02-2001, 11:35 AM

I DO AGREE with ONE thing he said that IF the Chiefs plan on keeping Grbac - then they MUST GET A LEGIT FEATURE BACK to accompany him in the backfield. This is the Chiefs most glaring weakness (except for BAD coacjing) and it has been ever since Allen retired.

ck_IN · 01-02-2001, 12:09 PM

I had visions of Denise pumping her fist in the air and shouting in glee as I read that piece of tripe. That's not a vision I really want to have over lunch! *L*

RB is a glaring need but I don't think it's our biggest one. Our run D is our biggest hole, imho. We play six games against Denver, Oakland, and Seattle. If our run D continues to decline we can write off half (at least) of those. We need Dline and LB help to stop the run. We need Oline help for our own run.
If a Bennett or Barlow drops into the 2nd rnd , I'd jump on them, otherwise I'd go for D.

Packfan · 01-02-2001, 01:57 PM

What do you guys want? Wins or yardage/TD #s from your QB?? I will take the wins. And Grbac just hasnt gotten the job done. Grbac is at best, a good QB. But generally, "good" at this position doesnt get you super bowl trophies. Grbac has had more than a fair chance to prove himself. Statistically, he had his best year and no doubt wants to cash in on it. If Peterson gives him a penny more than a 5 million dollar bonus, he is high. If I were running the team, I would let Grbac go and start over. Again, this defense is in shambles, the running game is non-existant, and the coaching staff is arguable the worst in the NFL. Signing Grbac just pospones the inevitable: Rebuilding. With or without Grbac, the chiefs are a lot closer to the bottom than they are to the top, so why resign him??

Gaz · 01-02-2001, 02:39 PM

Like it or not, Grbac is one of the better QBs in the NFL today. I was against anointing him as the starter and complained bitterly that he should have been benched after that disastrous San Diego game a year ago. I wailed that he would never develop into an NFL QB.

I was wrong.

Since that horrible game, Grbac has improved dramatically. He still throws into coverage more than I like, but I also must concede that he [b]had[/b] to throw into coverage since we had no ground game. Our OC was predictable and the Committee was inept and STILL he racked up record-setting yardage.

It is misguided, IMO, to claim that "Grbac just hasn't gotten the job done." Is the same criticism leveled at Dillon in Cincinatti? Why didn't he "get the job done" and single-handedly carry the Bengals to the playoffs? Manning gets tons of praise as a QB, yet the Colts were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs. What a loser, huh? And how about that slacker Seau in San Deigo?

The flaw in this odd bit of logic is painfully clear.

Grbac carried the weight of the entire Offense on his shoulders and broke records doing it. Imagine that passing game with a legitimate ground attack.

Give me Grbac with a renegotiated contract, a new OC and a featured HB and I will be happy. All three of these things are quite doable.

xoxo~
gaz
slowly brought around to Grbac's corner.<BR>

MrBlond · 01-02-2001, 02:49 PM

Packfan,
I disagree that the defense is in "shambles". Hicks, Clemons, Browning, Woods, Edwards, Mazlowski and Wesley are young solid defenders. Hasty needs to be replaced through FA. We have no time to hope that Bartee, Dennis, or Warfield will become a shutdown corner next year. They can man the 2nd recievers and play nickel but if Hasty is a cap casuality he must be replaced with a Sehorn or the like who can step in today. Chet is a waste of money but it is too expensive to cut him. A big loss that I think goes unnoticed was Tom Barndt. Tom was a run stuffing DT. Another can be found in the later rounds of the draft or as a cap casualty later. Scheme and coaching was far and away the problem with this defense. What do you think a young Bill Cowher, or Gunther Cunningham, or Marvin Lewis or Bill Belichek could do with this group? This defense needs improvment, no argument, but I think "shambles" may have been a little harsh.

MrBlond · 01-02-2001, 02:57 PM

Gaz,

You make good points as always. But Elvis will not renegotiate that 10 mil away. He may extend the years and/or signing bonus but in the end those dollars are going to cost us. That kind of money and cap space should be reserved for the Elways, Marinos, and Youngs. (OK...Favre too) Elvis is the best QB available to us next year but will he be worth that kind of jack 2,3 or 4 years from now? Might we be better off trading for, or signing a 2nd tier QB like Ray Lucas, and moving up for a Vick, or Brees? IMO, we may be behind next year but ahead 2 years from now.

**Baby Lee** · 01-02-2001, 03:00 PM

Mr. Blond - hate to do it, but I gotta back Packfan on the 'shambles' thing. Sure there were moments of beauty and there is always a reason for optimism [homer springs eternal]. But the effort and the results this year from the D was among the most embarassing things I have witnessed in a while.
Just watching this D give up offsides, underneath passes, chunks of running room, key third down after key third down [and the TDs, Oh! the TDs], I felt like Gore forced to watch an endless loop of Bush's most subliminable soundbites. the worst was the last Raiders game, where I got the sense that no O could ever produce enough to level out the sieve on D.

**Dartgod** · 01-02-2001, 03:04 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>“…this defense is in shambles, the running game is non-existant, and the coaching staff is arguable the worst in the NFL.”<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And yet you want to place most of the blame on Elvis' shoulders. The fact that he accomplished as much as he did when the rest of the team is in bad of shape as you admit here, I just don't get it. Wouldn't you like to see what he could do with a little competent help around him?

**morphius** · 01-02-2001, 03:05 PM

MrBlond - I disagree about Grbac, he knows that it is the players around him that allows him to play at a certain level. The only problem is that he knows we need a Half Back to complete the O, and pick up some people to replace the 3 interior lineman if they all choose to leave. He has renogiated his contract many times already, so I really don't see him not doing it this time unless he see's that the orginization is heading in a direction that he has huge issues with.

[This message has been edited by morphius (edited 01-02-2001).]

**morphius** · 01-02-2001, 03:08 PM

Dartgod - That is what I was thinking about Packfans comments, he completely contradicted his point in trying to get a shot at Carl.

Gaz · 01-02-2001, 03:08 PM

Mr. Blond-

I believe that Grbac will renegotiate. If he does not, then I go after Lucas or some other 2nd tier QB [good description, BTW] and let him fight Collins for the starting job. I do not pursue Vick or Brees. I am not sold on either of them at this point in time [to be fair, I was sold on only one college QB in the last decade, and that was Manning].

As long as he renegotiates, I stick with Grbac. He is coming into his own at the position and I believe he could truly shine with a featured HB and an OC who understands that predictable is bad.

For the upcoming draft, we have serious needs at OLB, ORG, CB and HB. I do not think we can afford to spend a high pick on a QB when we have a good QB on the roster.

xoxo~
gaz
never expected to be a 'backer.<BR>

MrBlond · 01-02-2001, 03:10 PM

Johnny,
I agree the result this year were horrific. But I think the scheme is the problem. (that and Chet) The D-line did crush QB's, Maz looks like an artist conception of a MLB, Woods and Wesley remind me of Smith and Atwater, Donnie is a tackle machine, Patton is a servicable veteran, I think I have used all the commas on my computer, so I'll start a new sentance. This defense has holes but the biggest hole is in its head...Schottenheimer.

01-02-2001, 11:06 AM	#2
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	Flanagan is an idiot. His solution to use every pick on a running back or every pick on a quarterback so that Carl could finally find a solution is pathetic. Let's just let the D get worse than it is so that we can hopefully find more offense by using every pick in our draft. Brilliant, Flanny! Better to be an Elvis apologist than a dumbass...
Posts: 6,798

01-02-2001, 11:09 AM	#3
Baby Lee Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $8028275	What's the draft, six rounds? Sounds like a perfect way to assure at least five loser draft picks.
Posts: 95,642

01-02-2001, 11:35 AM	#4
TEX Out Gunning CP's Fandom Police Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Galveston, TX Casino cash: $-1256873	I DO AGREE with ONE thing he said that IF the Chiefs plan on keeping Grbac - then they MUST GET A LEGIT FEATURE BACK to accompany him in the backfield. This is the Chiefs most glaring weakness (except for BAD coacjing) and it has been ever since Allen retired.
Posts: 37,059

01-02-2001, 12:09 PM	#5
ck_IN Feels so good. Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	I had visions of Denise pumping her fist in the air and shouting in glee as I read that piece of tripe. That's not a vision I really want to have over lunch! L RB is a glaring need but I don't think it's our biggest one. Our run D is our biggest hole, imho. We play six games against Denver, Oakland, and Seattle. If our run D continues to decline we can write off half (at least) of those. We need Dline and LB help to stop the run. We need Oline help for our own run. If a Bennett or Barlow drops into the 2nd rnd , I'd jump on them, otherwise I'd go for D.
Posts: 2,718

01-02-2001, 01:57 PM	#6
Packfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI, Door Casino cash: $10004900	What do you guys want? Wins or yardage/TD #s from your QB?? I will take the wins. And Grbac just hasnt gotten the job done. Grbac is at best, a good QB. But generally, "good" at this position doesnt get you super bowl trophies. Grbac has had more than a fair chance to prove himself. Statistically, he had his best year and no doubt wants to cash in on it. If Peterson gives him a penny more than a 5 million dollar bonus, he is high. If I were running the team, I would let Grbac go and start over. Again, this defense is in shambles, the running game is non-existant, and the coaching staff is arguable the worst in the NFL. Signing Grbac just pospones the inevitable: Rebuilding. With or without Grbac, the chiefs are a lot closer to the bottom than they are to the top, so why resign him??
Posts: 938

01-02-2001, 08:30 AM
Mosbonian On Hiatus Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-1140300	Did anyone see the article by Jeffrey Flanagan taking a shot at Elvis backers(apologists)? His article was a tongue in cheek piece but was a swipe at anyone who backed Elvis Grbac. Good to see he still isn't into knowing more about the subjects he is prone to write about, it keeps up his tendencies. mark ***********
Posts: 12,392

01-02-2001, 02:39 PM	#7
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	Like it or not, Grbac is one of the better QBs in the NFL today. I was against anointing him as the starter and complained bitterly that he should have been benched after that disastrous San Diego game a year ago. I wailed that he would never develop into an NFL QB. I was wrong. Since that horrible game, Grbac has improved dramatically. He still throws into coverage more than I like, but I also must concede that he [b]had[/b] to throw into coverage since we had no ground game. Our OC was predictable and the Committee was inept and STILL he racked up record-setting yardage. It is misguided, IMO, to claim that "Grbac just hasn't gotten the job done." Is the same criticism leveled at Dillon in Cincinatti? Why didn't he "get the job done" and single-handedly carry the Bengals to the playoffs? Manning gets tons of praise as a QB, yet the Colts were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs. What a loser, huh? And how about that slacker Seau in San Deigo? The flaw in this odd bit of logic is painfully clear. Grbac carried the weight of the entire Offense on his shoulders and broke records doing it. Imagine that passing game with a legitimate ground attack. Give me Grbac with a renegotiated contract, a new OC and a featured HB and I will be happy. All three of these things are quite doable. xoxo~ gaz slowly brought around to Grbac's corner.<BR>
Posts: 5,911

01-02-2001, 02:49 PM	#8
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	Packfan, I disagree that the defense is in "shambles". Hicks, Clemons, Browning, Woods, Edwards, Mazlowski and Wesley are young solid defenders. Hasty needs to be replaced through FA. We have no time to hope that Bartee, Dennis, or Warfield will become a shutdown corner next year. They can man the 2nd recievers and play nickel but if Hasty is a cap casuality he must be replaced with a Sehorn or the like who can step in today. Chet is a waste of money but it is too expensive to cut him. A big loss that I think goes unnoticed was Tom Barndt. Tom was a run stuffing DT. Another can be found in the later rounds of the draft or as a cap casualty later. Scheme and coaching was far and away the problem with this defense. What do you think a young Bill Cowher, or Gunther Cunningham, or Marvin Lewis or Bill Belichek could do with this group? This defense needs improvment, no argument, but I think "shambles" may have been a little harsh.
Posts: 12,747

01-02-2001, 02:57 PM	#9
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	Gaz, You make good points as always. But Elvis will not renegotiate that 10 mil away. He may extend the years and/or signing bonus but in the end those dollars are going to cost us. That kind of money and cap space should be reserved for the Elways, Marinos, and Youngs. (OK...Favre too) Elvis is the best QB available to us next year but will he be worth that kind of jack 2,3 or 4 years from now? Might we be better off trading for, or signing a 2nd tier QB like Ray Lucas, and moving up for a Vick, or Brees? IMO, we may be behind next year but ahead 2 years from now.
Posts: 12,747

01-02-2001, 03:00 PM	#10
Baby Lee Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $8028275	Mr. Blond - hate to do it, but I gotta back Packfan on the 'shambles' thing. Sure there were moments of beauty and there is always a reason for optimism [homer springs eternal]. But the effort and the results this year from the D was among the most embarassing things I have witnessed in a while. Just watching this D give up offsides, underneath passes, chunks of running room, key third down after key third down [and the TDs, Oh! the TDs], I felt like Gore forced to watch an endless loop of Bush's most subliminable soundbites. the worst was the last Raiders game, where I got the sense that no O could ever produce enough to level out the sieve on D.
Posts: 95,642

01-02-2001, 03:04 PM	#11
Dartgod Wasted away again... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: in Margaritaville Casino cash: $3780000	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>“…this defense is in shambles, the running game is non-existant, and the coaching staff is arguable the worst in the NFL.”<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And yet you want to place most of the blame on Elvis' shoulders. The fact that he accomplished as much as he did when the rest of the team is in bad of shape as you admit here, I just don't get it. Wouldn't you like to see what he could do with a little competent help around him?
Posts: 52,177

01-02-2001, 03:05 PM	#12
morphius World's finest morphius Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $5835027	MrBlond - I disagree about Grbac, he knows that it is the players around him that allows him to play at a certain level. The only problem is that he knows we need a Half Back to complete the O, and pick up some people to replace the 3 interior lineman if they all choose to leave. He has renogiated his contract many times already, so I really don't see him not doing it this time unless he see's that the orginization is heading in a direction that he has huge issues with. [This message has been edited by morphius (edited 01-02-2001).]
Posts: 26,022

01-02-2001, 03:08 PM	#13
morphius World's finest morphius Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $5835027	Dartgod - That is what I was thinking about Packfans comments, he completely contradicted his point in trying to get a shot at Carl.
Posts: 26,022

01-02-2001, 03:10 PM	#15
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	Johnny, I agree the result this year were horrific. But I think the scheme is the problem. (that and Chet) The D-line did crush QB's, Maz looks like an artist conception of a MLB, Woods and Wesley remind me of Smith and Atwater, Donnie is a tackle machine, Patton is a servicable veteran, I think I have used all the commas on my computer, so I'll start a new sentance. This defense has holes but the biggest hole is in its head...Schottenheimer.
Posts: 12,747