Let's discuss the 5 year plan.

a1na2 · 10-31-2007, 05:55 AM

There have been some pretty damning commentary but I'd like to see some pretty convincing evidence to prove to me that he failed in putting the team on the field that had the capability to achieve his goal in the first 5 years of his tenure with the Chiefs.

Let's see as much data as possible and leave personal opinion as far from the conversation as we can.

**the Talking Can** · 10-31-2007, 06:27 AM

KC Jones · 10-31-2007, 07:55 AM

Relevant Data:
18 years, no Lombardi's

Reerun_KC · 10-31-2007, 07:58 AM

More Relevant Data:

3 playoff wins in 18 years. ?

zero ability to develop a QB in 18 years.

Totally selling the rule of mediocrity and having the city of KC eating out of your hands embracing mediocrity to the fullest.

**BigRedChief** · 10-31-2007, 08:18 AM

I agree with most everyone here that from the 2003 LJ/Jared Allen drafts we have been doing a good job with our drafts. But we are still suffing in 2007 because of these draft years between Tony G and LJ.

2002 - Kansas City Chiefs
Rd Sel # Player Position
1 6 Ryan Sims DT
2 43 Eddie Freeman DT
4 107 Omar Easy RB
5 143 Scott Fujita OLB
7 221 Maurice Rodriguez

2001 - Kansas City Chiefs
Rd Sel # Player Position
3 75 Eric Downing DT
3 77 Snoop Minnis WR
4 107 Monty Beisel DE
4 108 George LayneRB
5 141 Billy Baber TE
5 150 Derrick Blaylock RB
6 176 Alex Sulfsted T
7 212 Shaunard Harts DB
7 243 Terdell Sands DT

2000 - Kansas City Chiefs
Rd Sel # Player Position
1 21 Sylvester Morris WR
2 54 William Bartee CB
3 85 Greg Wesley SS
4 115 Frank Moreau RB
5 153 Dante Hall RB
5 162 Pat Dennis CB
6 188 Darnell Alford T
7 208 Desmond Kitchings WR

1999 - Kansas City Chiefs
Rd Sel # Player Position
1 14 John Tait T
2 54 Mike Cloud RB
3 75 Gary Stills LB
3 84 Larry Atkins DB
4 108 Larry Parker WR
7 220 Eric King --

1998 - Kansas City Chiefs
Rd Sel # Player Position
1 27 Victor Riley T
3 88 Rashaan Shehee RB
4 120 Greg Favors ILB
5 128 Robert Williams DB
6 181 Derrick Ransom DT
7 216 Eric Warfield DB
7 224 Ernest Blackwell

**BigRedChief** · 10-31-2007, 08:22 AM

The Chiefs have great regular season records and but what about the playoffs? The historical facts about the results on the field can't be denied.

The fans of KC have sold out every game since the early 90's
Season Ticket Prices are up over 200% above normal inflation increases during King Carl's rein
King Carl has the longest rein in the NFL as GM, 17 years
Every team in the AFC West (including a former team, the Seahawks) has been to a Super Bowl during King Carl's rein, but us
Two playoff apperances in the last 10 years.
No playoff wins since 1994 (Average ticket Price = $26.83). Only the Lions and Bengals have waited longer for a NFL playoff win than the Chiefs. Even the Arizona Cardinals have won a playoff game during that time. Average ticket price in 2006 = $72.56
The only AFC team with less playoff wins than the Chiefs since their last Superbowl appearance is the expansion Houston Texans.
13-3 with home field advantage in the playoffs three times and did nothing but lose their first game.
Since 1996-97 we have not had back to back winning seasons.
4 Head Coaches during King Carl's rein

I know that King Carl is not going anywhere. But when Marty left I felt he was still a good coach but it was time for him to move on. It is time for King Carl to voluntarily move on.

The Record
1989 9-7 (The Marty and King Carl era begins)
1990 11-5 (Lost in the 1st round of the playoffs)
1991 10-6 (Lost in the WC round of the playoffs)
1992 10-6 (Lost in the WC round of the playoffs)
1993 11-5 (Lost in the Divisional round, Montana and Allen era begins)
1994 9-7 (Lost in the AFC championship game. Montana retires)
1995 13-3 (HFA. Lost in the Divisional round. Bono 3 int’s. 3 missed FG’s)
1996 9-7 (No playoffs)
1997 13-3 (HFA. Lost in the Divisional round to the Broncos. Allen retires.)
1998 7-9 (No playoffs.Gannon to the Raiders. Marty Era is over)
1999 9-7 (Gunther era begins. Needed to beat Oakland at home in the final game. Up 17-0. Lost)
2000 7-9 (No playoffs. Gunn is fired)
2001 6-10 (No playoffs. DV era begins)
2002 8-8 (No playoffs)
2003 13-3 (HFA. Lost in the Divisional round. Never forced a punt)
2004 7-9 (No playoffs)
2005 10-6 (No playoffs. DV retires)
2006 9-7 (Herm era begins. Lost in the WC round of the playoffs)

Chiefs under Marty were 104-49
Gun’s Record 16-16
DV’s Record 44-36
Herm’s Record 9-7
Chiefs after Marty are 69-59

King Carl’s regular season record during his rein under 4 different HC and 19 years = 173-135

King Carl’s post season record during his rein under 4 different HC and 19 years = 3-9

Brock · 10-31-2007, 08:23 AM

13 years ago would have been a great time for this discussion.

10-31-2007, 05:55 AM
a1na2 Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Pittsburg Casino cash: $10004900	Let's discuss the 5 year plan. There have been some pretty damning commentary but I'd like to see some pretty convincing evidence to prove to me that he failed in putting the team on the field that had the capability to achieve his goal in the first 5 years of his tenure with the Chiefs. Let's see as much data as possible and leave personal opinion as far from the conversation as we can.
Posts: 2,691

10-31-2007, 06:27 AM	#2
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $9372208	poop __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
Posts: 51,585

10-31-2007, 07:55 AM	#3
KC Jones Genious Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Colorado Casino cash: $10012761	Relevant Data: 18 years, no Lombardi's __________________ re-sign: to sign again resign: to withdraw from employment
Posts: 5,366

10-31-2007, 07:58 AM	#4
Reerun_KC Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7231160	More Relevant Data: 3 playoff wins in 18 years. ? zero ability to develop a QB in 18 years. Totally selling the rule of mediocrity and having the city of KC eating out of your hands embracing mediocrity to the fullest.
Posts: 1,529

10-31-2007, 08:18 AM	#5
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-571038 VARSITY	I agree with most everyone here that from the 2003 LJ/Jared Allen drafts we have been doing a good job with our drafts. But we are still suffing in 2007 because of these draft years between Tony G and LJ. 2002 - Kansas City Chiefs Rd Sel # Player Position 1 6 Ryan Sims DT 2 43 Eddie Freeman DT 4 107 Omar Easy RB 5 143 Scott Fujita OLB 7 221 Maurice Rodriguez 2001 - Kansas City Chiefs Rd Sel # Player Position 3 75 Eric Downing DT 3 77 Snoop Minnis WR 4 107 Monty Beisel DE 4 108 George LayneRB 5 141 Billy Baber TE 5 150 Derrick Blaylock RB 6 176 Alex Sulfsted T 7 212 Shaunard Harts DB 7 243 Terdell Sands DT 2000 - Kansas City Chiefs Rd Sel # Player Position 1 21 Sylvester Morris WR 2 54 William Bartee CB 3 85 Greg Wesley SS 4 115 Frank Moreau RB 5 153 Dante Hall RB 5 162 Pat Dennis CB 6 188 Darnell Alford T 7 208 Desmond Kitchings WR 1999 - Kansas City Chiefs Rd Sel # Player Position 1 14 John Tait T 2 54 Mike Cloud RB 3 75 Gary Stills LB 3 84 Larry Atkins DB 4 108 Larry Parker WR 7 220 Eric King -- 1998 - Kansas City Chiefs Rd Sel # Player Position 1 27 Victor Riley T 3 88 Rashaan Shehee RB 4 120 Greg Favors ILB 5 128 Robert Williams DB 6 181 Derrick Ransom DT 7 216 Eric Warfield DB 7 224 Ernest Blackwell __________________ Mahomes is not a game manager. Release the Kraken.
Posts: 81,257

10-31-2007, 08:22 AM	#6
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-571038 VARSITY	The Chiefs have great regular season records and but what about the playoffs? The historical facts about the results on the field can't be denied. The fans of KC have sold out every game since the early 90's Season Ticket Prices are up over 200% above normal inflation increases during King Carl's rein King Carl has the longest rein in the NFL as GM, 17 years Every team in the AFC West (including a former team, the Seahawks) has been to a Super Bowl during King Carl's rein, but us Two playoff apperances in the last 10 years. No playoff wins since 1994 (Average ticket Price = $26.83). Only the Lions and Bengals have waited longer for a NFL playoff win than the Chiefs. Even the Arizona Cardinals have won a playoff game during that time. Average ticket price in 2006 = $72.56 The only AFC team with less playoff wins than the Chiefs since their last Superbowl appearance is the expansion Houston Texans. 13-3 with home field advantage in the playoffs three times and did nothing but lose their first game. Since 1996-97 we have not had back to back winning seasons. 4 Head Coaches during King Carl's rein I know that King Carl is not going anywhere. But when Marty left I felt he was still a good coach but it was time for him to move on. It is time for King Carl to voluntarily move on. The Record 1989 9-7 (The Marty and King Carl era begins) 1990 11-5 (Lost in the 1st round of the playoffs) 1991 10-6 (Lost in the WC round of the playoffs) 1992 10-6 (Lost in the WC round of the playoffs) 1993 11-5 (Lost in the Divisional round, Montana and Allen era begins) 1994 9-7 (Lost in the AFC championship game. Montana retires) 1995 13-3 (HFA. Lost in the Divisional round. Bono 3 int’s. 3 missed FG’s) 1996 9-7 (No playoffs) 1997 13-3 (HFA. Lost in the Divisional round to the Broncos. Allen retires.) 1998 7-9 (No playoffs.Gannon to the Raiders. Marty Era is over) 1999 9-7 (Gunther era begins. Needed to beat Oakland at home in the final game. Up 17-0. Lost) 2000 7-9 (No playoffs. Gunn is fired) 2001 6-10 (No playoffs. DV era begins) 2002 8-8 (No playoffs) 2003 13-3 (HFA. Lost in the Divisional round. Never forced a punt) 2004 7-9 (No playoffs) 2005 10-6 (No playoffs. DV retires) 2006 9-7 (Herm era begins. Lost in the WC round of the playoffs) Chiefs under Marty were 104-49 Gun’s Record 16-16 DV’s Record 44-36 Herm’s Record 9-7 Chiefs after Marty are 69-59 King Carl’s regular season record during his rein under 4 different HC and 19 years = 173-135 King Carl’s post season record during his rein under 4 different HC and 19 years = 3-9 __________________ Mahomes is not a game manager. Release the Kraken.
Posts: 81,257

10-31-2007, 08:23 AM	#7
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	13 years ago would have been a great time for this discussion.
Posts: 47,314