Chiefs Manny Fernandez can die in a fire.

Hammock Parties · 10-10-2010, 01:40 AM

Chiefs aren't world-beaters, but they're on path to greater success

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/10/09...#ixzz11wIfNnen

INDIANAPOLIS | The NFL’s last undefeated team is not even a good team, and that bit of disrespect comes from its own coach. Todd Haley is famous for his mind games, so maybe this is straight out of the Jedi playbook, but doesn’t it mean something that he can do it without anybody knowing for sure?

The Chiefs are 3-0. We’ve had two full weeks to think about that shocking fact, and still nobody seems quite sure what the heck it means.

Forget nationally. Even in Kansas City, long desperate for good vibes around our pro sports teams, we remain skeptical. Maybe this is a three-game fluke built on circumstance and bad opponents. That’s how most are reading it.

The Chiefs at Indianapolis today are the weekend’s biggest underdog. Bodog.com has the Chiefs as a plus-160 underdog even to make the playoffs. Good seats for future games at Arrowhead Stadium remain available.

Has any team ever had the league’s only undefeated record and been this disrespected?

“I’ll go on record saying I’m not scared and won’t be within a week or two,” says Manny Fernandez, a defensive lineman for the undefeated 1972 Miami Dolphins. “But I do appreciate the call. I needed a little levity this afternoon.”

What can a 3-0 start really mean if it doesn’t even get people dreaming?

We can try to find out by what it’s meant in the past.

• • •

Fifty-four teams have started 3-0 since 2000, and it’s an eclectic mix. They’ve been quarterbacked by Peyton Manning and Shaun King, coached by Tony Dungy and Bill Callahan. Eleven of them played in the Super Bowl, and 16 didn’t even make the playoffs.

Most of the past decade’s best teams started off at least 3-0, including the 2009 Saints, the 2007 Patriots and 2001 Rams.

A few utterly forgettable teams have done it too, including the 2000 Jets (coach Al Groh was fired after the season) and 2001 Chargers (won just two more games).

Seventy percent of them made the playoffs, a pretty good success rate, but there are cautionary tales, too. Some of them have ties to this year’s Chiefs. Haley was an assistant on that Jets team. Casey Wiegmann’s Broncos went 6-0 into their bye week and then stumbled their way out of playoffs.

Context is critical here. Most of the 3-0 teams in the past were, well, good teams. They expected to be good. The Chiefs went 4-12 last year and are very much a team in transition.

In the last decade, only 11 teams have started 3-0 the year after losing 10 or more games. And of those, only six made the playoffs — essentially a coin-flip — and this is where it’s impossible not to notice that the Chiefs’ three wins are against teams that are combined 3-9.

The Chiefs beat San Diego in a virtual monsoon and with help from their best home-field advantage in at least five years. They also beat a backup quarterback (Cleveland’s Seneca Wallace) and a winless team (San Francisco) that fired its offensive coordinator.

So it can all be rationally dismissed, which is why the undefeated Chiefs aren’t yet a big part of the national conversation.

But it matters far less what 3-0 does for the Chiefs’ national perception than what it does for their players, right now, and their journey from the league’s dirty bottom puddles to what it hopes will be a championship.

• • •

The Chiefs rely on three rookies in the secondary. Neither first-round pick made by general manager Scott Pioli has made much of an impact. Matt Cassel is still the frumpy quarterback throwing to wide receivers who too often struggle to get separation.

These are all facts. Even privately, Chiefs insiders will tell you they are a long way from being the kind of team that typically wins three games in a row.

So what does a 3-0 start mean to a group like this?

This is mostly a feel thing, which doesn’t make it any less important. It’s the homely girl getting a nice compliment, or the awkward teenager hearing the hot cheerleader thinks he’s cute. A little confidence can go a long way, especially in the NFL.

“I’m happy we’ve been able to see some positive reinforcement,” Haley says. “Because that is very critical to success.”

There is an NFL truism that’s been written here before and talked about plenty around the league, that the difference between good teams and bad teams is often the difference between confidence and doubt.

If Cassel believes he’s as good as his 250 yards and three touchdowns against the 49ers, that’s a wonderful thing. So what if it came on a trick play, swing pass to a playmaker, and the catch-of-the-year from a rookie tight end?

If the defense believes it’s the top-of-the-league unit that’s allowed just four meaningful touchdowns in three games, that’s terrific. So what if the secondary is vulnerable and the pass rush may be more mirage than reality?

Winning covers a lot of concerns, so this 3-0 start becomes meaningful precisely because the Chiefs are starting to believe that it’s meaningful.

“It lets you know you can play with these teams in the NFL,” says Kendrick Lewis, one of those rookie defensive backs. “You don’t have to be braced up, put your back against the wall. You come out slugging and fighting and compete.”

• • •

Today begins an eight day-stretch of reality. Chiefs fans are bracing for it. Three wins are great and all, but nothing like playing Peyton Manning in the dome at Indianapolis. Confidence is important, but the Chiefs will face one of the league’s best talents in Andre Johnson next weekend at Houston.

If most of us expected the Chiefs to be merely OK this year — something like six to eight wins — now is when mediocrity would begin to show.

It’s just that the whole conversation changes with confidence. Depending on which set of numbers you go by, history tells us the Chiefs have between a 50 and 70 percent chance of making the playoffs.

Whether that happens or not is important, of course, but not nearly as important as the fact that the Chiefs now believe it’s possible. Rebuilding projects fail all the time in sports because people stop believing. The Chiefs don’t have to worry about that now.

So maybe this 3-0 start leads to 9-7 or 10-6 and a playoff spot thanks to a weak AFC West. That’d be fun, but we’d all agree this is not a Super Bowl contender.

Even without a playoff spot, it shows everyone with the Chiefs — players and coaches — that they’re headed in the right direction. That gives the team a better chance at a big payoff down the road.

And that’s what really matters.

**Rain Man** · 10-10-2010, 02:26 AM

If not for Larry Csonka, no one would have ever heard of Manny Fernandez. Only Nick Buoniconti was more overrated on that defense.

Fernandez was good, but not great. Same with Buoniconti. The safeties on that team, Scott and Anderson, were the only two true standouts, and it was the offense that carried them, so Fernandez should just shut his trap.

**HemiEd** · 10-10-2010, 02:41 AM

Sometimes the truth hurts, most of that article is dead on. But what he doesn't mention, this team figured out a way to win each of those games. They just might continue to do so, hopefully.

I especially loved this line:

"Whether that happens or not is important, of course, but not nearly as important as the fact that the Chiefs now believe it’s possible. Rebuilding projects fail all the time in sports because people stop believing. The Chiefs don’t have to worry about that now."

That is huge, after Herm taught them to be losers. Some of us watched this team flounder as losers for almost two full decades, without the confidence or talent to be a winner.

easymobee · 10-10-2010, 05:35 AM

The end result wasn't good, but the same thing happened with the Broncos last year.

Beat the Bengals on the tip ( plus they were thought to be a crap team for the first half of the year).

Beat the Raiders and Browns at home. Our 3-0 was dismissed as much as yours.

Went to 6-0 beating the Cowboys, Patriots, and Chargers and that all changed (for the time being).

Can you guys get thru the Colts and Texans to get the national media buzzing?

keg in kc · 10-10-2010, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easymobee

Beat the Bengals on the tip ( plus they were thought to be a crap team for the first half of the year).

I think that's the big difference between us and denver last year. That was an actual fluke win, the kind you don't often see. We haven't really had the benefit of anything like that yet, and I don't expect that we will. It's been a workmanlike 3-0, blowout score 2 weeks ago not withstanding. We did have some trickery in the 49ers game (everybody's seen the play), but that wasn't anything that determined the outcome. The first two wins were simply making less mistakes than the opponent and finding ways to win (something we haven't seen here for a long, long time).

You can win games like that on your home field or on the road against a bad team like Cleveland, but if we come out of Indy or Houston with a win, it'll undoubtedly be the result of a more impressive performance. "Workmanlike" won't get it done. It'll have to be the kind of game where the whole team executed in all phases.

**ChiefGator** · 10-10-2010, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Manny Fernandez can die in a fire

Come on, man. You can do better then this. Maybe an AIDS fire? Bubonic Plague fire? Ghonorea fire?

Let's get those major illness adjectives going!

milkman · 10-10-2010, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Neither first-round pick made by general manager Scott Pioli has made much of an impact.

It amazes me that people who don't know what they are watching get a job that allows them to comment on it.

If he knew what he was watching, he'd know that Berry, Pioli's second first round pick, has had a big impact in the performance of this defense against the run.

Frankly, I never expected him to have this kind of impact this early.

Hammock Parties · 10-10-2010, 06:50 AM

Thanks milkman. Didn't catch that.

Anything to rip on Mellinger. He sucks.

Ass.

**bevischief** · 10-10-2010, 06:55 AM

Nutthooks.

**Rausch** · 10-10-2010, 07:11 AM

I don't see the big issue.

There is no ****ing way in hell this team goes 16-0.

chiefsnorth · 10-10-2010, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

If not for Larry Csonka, no one would have ever heard of Manny Fernandez. Only Nick Buoniconti was more overrated on that defense.

Fernandez was good, but not great. Same with Buoniconti. The safeties on that team, Scott and Anderson, were the only two true standouts, and it was the offense that carried them, so Fernandez should just shut his trap.

He was always overrated as a goalie too.

**The Bad Guy** · 10-10-2010, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

The Chiefs beat San Diego in a virtual monsoon and with help from their best home-field advantage in at least five years. They also beat a backup quarterback (Cleveland’s Seneca Wallace) and a winless team (San Francisco) that fired its offensive coordinator.

Nevermind the fact that the 49ers were favored in the game. What about defensively? Did they fire their D-coordinator too?

The monsoon argument is just completely laughable of epic proportions. Did the Chiefs have to play defense in that monsoon? Was the footing so much better for the Chiefs defenders that it posed an unfair advantage to the Chargers?

**** that noise.

Quote:

The Chiefs rely on three rookies in the secondary. Neither first-round pick made by general manager Scott Pioli has made much of an impact. Matt Cassel is still the frumpy quarterback throwing to wide receivers who too often struggle to get separation.

Quote:

These are all facts.

No, this isn't a fact. Eric Berry has been a god damn stud in run support. This team is giving up about 45 yards a game less in rushing defense despite playing 3 good running teams. No credit at all for stopping Frank Gore, Peyton Hillis and Mathews. None. It's hilarious.

Someone should also tell this asshole author to learn the difference between facts and opinions.

**2112** · 10-10-2010, 09:27 AM

**** all Dolphins past and present.

10-10-2010, 01:40 AM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $970478	Manny Fernandez can die in a fire. Chiefs aren't world-beaters, but they're on path to greater success http://www.kansascity.com/2010/10/09...#ixzz11wIfNnen INDIANAPOLIS \| The NFL’s last undefeated team is not even a good team, and that bit of disrespect comes from its own coach. Todd Haley is famous for his mind games, so maybe this is straight out of the Jedi playbook, but doesn’t it mean something that he can do it without anybody knowing for sure? The Chiefs are 3-0. We’ve had two full weeks to think about that shocking fact, and still nobody seems quite sure what the heck it means. Forget nationally. Even in Kansas City, long desperate for good vibes around our pro sports teams, we remain skeptical. Maybe this is a three-game fluke built on circumstance and bad opponents. That’s how most are reading it. The Chiefs at Indianapolis today are the weekend’s biggest underdog. Bodog.com has the Chiefs as a plus-160 underdog even to make the playoffs. Good seats for future games at Arrowhead Stadium remain available. Has any team ever had the league’s only undefeated record and been this disrespected? “I’ll go on record saying I’m not scared and won’t be within a week or two,” says Manny Fernandez, a defensive lineman for the undefeated 1972 Miami Dolphins. “But I do appreciate the call. I needed a little levity this afternoon.” What can a 3-0 start really mean if it doesn’t even get people dreaming? We can try to find out by what it’s meant in the past. • • • Fifty-four teams have started 3-0 since 2000, and it’s an eclectic mix. They’ve been quarterbacked by Peyton Manning and Shaun King, coached by Tony Dungy and Bill Callahan. Eleven of them played in the Super Bowl, and 16 didn’t even make the playoffs. Most of the past decade’s best teams started off at least 3-0, including the 2009 Saints, the 2007 Patriots and 2001 Rams. A few utterly forgettable teams have done it too, including the 2000 Jets (coach Al Groh was fired after the season) and 2001 Chargers (won just two more games). Seventy percent of them made the playoffs, a pretty good success rate, but there are cautionary tales, too. Some of them have ties to this year’s Chiefs. Haley was an assistant on that Jets team. Casey Wiegmann’s Broncos went 6-0 into their bye week and then stumbled their way out of playoffs. Context is critical here. Most of the 3-0 teams in the past were, well, good teams. They expected to be good. The Chiefs went 4-12 last year and are very much a team in transition. In the last decade, only 11 teams have started 3-0 the year after losing 10 or more games. And of those, only six made the playoffs — essentially a coin-flip — and this is where it’s impossible not to notice that the Chiefs’ three wins are against teams that are combined 3-9. The Chiefs beat San Diego in a virtual monsoon and with help from their best home-field advantage in at least five years. They also beat a backup quarterback (Cleveland’s Seneca Wallace) and a winless team (San Francisco) that fired its offensive coordinator. So it can all be rationally dismissed, which is why the undefeated Chiefs aren’t yet a big part of the national conversation. But it matters far less what 3-0 does for the Chiefs’ national perception than what it does for their players, right now, and their journey from the league’s dirty bottom puddles to what it hopes will be a championship. • • • The Chiefs rely on three rookies in the secondary. Neither first-round pick made by general manager Scott Pioli has made much of an impact. Matt Cassel is still the frumpy quarterback throwing to wide receivers who too often struggle to get separation. These are all facts. Even privately, Chiefs insiders will tell you they are a long way from being the kind of team that typically wins three games in a row. So what does a 3-0 start mean to a group like this? This is mostly a feel thing, which doesn’t make it any less important. It’s the homely girl getting a nice compliment, or the awkward teenager hearing the hot cheerleader thinks he’s cute. A little confidence can go a long way, especially in the NFL. “I’m happy we’ve been able to see some positive reinforcement,” Haley says. “Because that is very critical to success.” There is an NFL truism that’s been written here before and talked about plenty around the league, that the difference between good teams and bad teams is often the difference between confidence and doubt. If Cassel believes he’s as good as his 250 yards and three touchdowns against the 49ers, that’s a wonderful thing. So what if it came on a trick play, swing pass to a playmaker, and the catch-of-the-year from a rookie tight end? If the defense believes it’s the top-of-the-league unit that’s allowed just four meaningful touchdowns in three games, that’s terrific. So what if the secondary is vulnerable and the pass rush may be more mirage than reality? Winning covers a lot of concerns, so this 3-0 start becomes meaningful precisely because the Chiefs are starting to believe that it’s meaningful. “It lets you know you can play with these teams in the NFL,” says Kendrick Lewis, one of those rookie defensive backs. “You don’t have to be braced up, put your back against the wall. You come out slugging and fighting and compete.” • • • Today begins an eight day-stretch of reality. Chiefs fans are bracing for it. Three wins are great and all, but nothing like playing Peyton Manning in the dome at Indianapolis. Confidence is important, but the Chiefs will face one of the league’s best talents in Andre Johnson next weekend at Houston. If most of us expected the Chiefs to be merely OK this year — something like six to eight wins — now is when mediocrity would begin to show. It’s just that the whole conversation changes with confidence. Depending on which set of numbers you go by, history tells us the Chiefs have between a 50 and 70 percent chance of making the playoffs. Whether that happens or not is important, of course, but not nearly as important as the fact that the Chiefs now believe it’s possible. Rebuilding projects fail all the time in sports because people stop believing. The Chiefs don’t have to worry about that now. So maybe this 3-0 start leads to 9-7 or 10-6 and a playoff spot thanks to a weak AFC West. That’d be fun, but we’d all agree this is not a Super Bowl contender. Even without a playoff spot, it shows everyone with the Chiefs — players and coaches — that they’re headed in the right direction. That gives the team a better chance at a big payoff down the road. And that’s what really matters.
Posts: 296,857

10-10-2010, 02:26 AM	#2
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-512449 VARSITY	If not for Larry Csonka, no one would have ever heard of Manny Fernandez. Only Nick Buoniconti was more overrated on that defense. Fernandez was good, but not great. Same with Buoniconti. The safeties on that team, Scott and Anderson, were the only two true standouts, and it was the offense that carried them, so Fernandez should just shut his trap. __________________ Active fan of the greatest team in NFL history.
Posts: 145,306

10-10-2010, 02:41 AM	#3
HemiEd Supporter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ozarks Casino cash: $-339436	Sometimes the truth hurts, most of that article is dead on. But what he doesn't mention, this team figured out a way to win each of those games. They just might continue to do so, hopefully. I especially loved this line: "Whether that happens or not is important, of course, but not nearly as important as the fact that the Chiefs now believe it’s possible. Rebuilding projects fail all the time in sports because people stop believing. The Chiefs don’t have to worry about that now." That is huge, after Herm taught them to be losers. Some of us watched this team flounder as losers for almost two full decades, without the confidence or talent to be a winner.
Posts: 34,815

10-10-2010, 05:35 AM	#4
easymobee _\|_ (^_^) _\|_ Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Playoffs Casino cash: $10005075	The end result wasn't good, but the same thing happened with the Broncos last year. Beat the Bengals on the tip ( plus they were thought to be a crap team for the first half of the year). Beat the Raiders and Browns at home. Our 3-0 was dismissed as much as yours. Went to 6-0 beating the Cowboys, Patriots, and Chargers and that all changed (for the time being). Can you guys get thru the Colts and Texans to get the national media buzzing? __________________ ...............................
Posts: 607

10-10-2010, 06:50 AM	#8
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $970478	Thanks milkman. Didn't catch that. Anything to rip on Mellinger. He sucks. Ass. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 296,857

10-10-2010, 06:55 AM	#9
bevischief .... Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somewhere Kansas Casino cash: $7739352 VARSITY	Nutthooks.
Posts: 27,771

10-10-2010, 09:27 AM	#13
2112 Reset Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $6936765	**** all Dolphins past and present.
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