Posnanski: HOF voters are stupid...

DaWolf · 02-06-2007, 02:17 AM

I suggest we ask Peter King to respond to this...

JOE POSNANSKI COMMENTARY
GIVE HIM HIS DUE
Pro Football Hall of Fame voters’ perceptions are clouded when it comes to Derrick Thomas

MIAMI | There probably are worse ways to pick pro football hall of famers than by locking 40 wildly diverse sportswriters and broadcasters in a room and having them fight it out to the death. For instance: Having sportswriters throw darts at a dartboard with players’ names on it … that would be a worse way.

A “Wheel of Hall of Fame Fortune” game show — that would be worse.

OK, that’s all I can come up with.

Saturday afternoon, the 40-man party crew known as the Pro Football Hall of Fame selection committee batted things around and again passed on Derrick Thomas. That makes three years running, and it’s now becoming apparent that Thomas may never get selected for the Hall of Fame. This seemed as if it would be his year. The ballot was thin. The vote was in Thomas’ hometown. The time seemed right.

The group did not vote him in again, choosing instead to honor Michael Irvin, which is a whole other story. Well, the bright side there is that anyone who thinks the personal mistakes Derrick Thomas may have made in his life have something to do with the Hall of Fame can put that idea away. Michael Irvin was selected for the Hall of Fame.

Anyway. The big problem here seems to be a matter of perception. This Hall of Fame committee, for whatever reason, remains unconvinced. Some of them seem to think Derrick Thomas is a “borderline” Hall of Fame candidate. I have no idea where this idea came from — maybe his case hasn’t been presented right, or maybe committee members have spent too much time talking about his so-called weaknesses as a player, or maybe they just didn’t see him play enough because the Chiefs never reached a Super Bowl.

Maybe some of them simply slept through the 1990s.

So this needs to be written down: There is nothing borderline about Derrick Thomas’ football case. He is a slam-dunk, no-doubt, sure-as-shooting Hall of Famer. He should have gone in on the first ballot with Dan Marino and that group. He changed as many football games as any defensive player in the NFL in the 1990s. He sacked more quarterbacks, caused more fumbles, fired up more crowds, forced more bad passes and shifted more momentum than anyone else.

The idea of football is to win. The Chiefs went 110-65-1 during Derrick Thomas’ career. He was the biggest reason why they kept winning.

Look: Derrick Thomas had 126 1/2 sacks in his career before he died too young. Nobody had more in that time frame. He set the NFL record for sacks in a game with seven. He was the unquestioned leader of a Chiefs team that went to the playoffs seven times in 11 seasons (and just missed two other times). The Chiefs’ defense finished in the top half of the NFL every season but one, was in the top 10 six times and was No. 1 in the entire league twice. This guy was a dominant football player.

How dominant? He made nine Pro Bowls. Nine. In the history of the NFL, only 57 players have made nine or more Pro Bowls — and among the eligible players, only five of them are not in the Hall of Fame. No linebacker has made more than 10. Among the greatest linebackers, Dick Butkus was in eight Pro Bowls. Willie Lanier was in eight Pro Bowls. Nick Buoniconti was in eight Pro Bowls. And so on.

By the way, Michael Irvin made just five Pro Bowls, which at last check was more than his number of drug arrests, though it’s close. Thurman Thomas, another Hall of Fame choice this year, made only five Pro Bowls, too.

Oh yeah, and there has been some talk that some other pass rushers like Fred Dean, Andre Tippett and Richard Dent have created a foggy situation for Hall of Fame voters. How can you tell them apart? Well, here’s one way: Fred Dean made four Pro Bowls, Andre Tippett five and Richard Dent four. Come on. They were fine pass rushers. They were not Derrick Thomas.

Thomas was a uniquely dominating player. Every coach had to game-plan around him. Every offense had to focus on him. Every young linebacker wanted to be Derrick Thomas. And as for the knock that he was not a great “all-round” player — come on. What is an all-round football player anyway? John Elway couldn’t kick field goals. Mike Singletary couldn’t throw passes. Derrick Thomas’ job was not to cover receivers and stuff the run. His job was to get the quarterback and create havoc, and he did it with an abandon that few players in the history of the game ever matched.

And as for the idea that he was a “liability against the run,” as I heard one voter say — that’s baloney, as my father used to say. In Thomas’ 11 seasons, the Chiefs allowed more than 4 yards per rush only twice. Teams did not run the ball against the Chiefs. And then consider this: The Chiefs did not have a single other linebacker make the Pro Bowl in his career. Liability. Sheesh. Let’s just hope nobody ever again offers that stupid line.

Derrick Thomas has other credentials. He was the NFL Man of the Year. He forced 45 fumbles, recorded three safeties and scored four touchdowns. He was the player who, as much as anyone, turned Kansas City into one of the great football towns in the NFL.

But all of these are just extras. Derrick Thomas dominated professional football games. He changed professional football games. He was, post-Lawrence Taylor, the most electrifying defensive player in the NFL. I have no idea what those guys in the room said about Thomas, but Derrick Thomas is not a guy you talk about. He’s a guy you vote for without question and without hesitation. Let’s hope some people wake up.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/16630797.htm

Taco John · 02-06-2007, 02:20 AM

Sportswriters shouldn't even have a vote. It should be left to the Players and Coaches who actually played the game. Or fine, give the sportswriters a vote to supplement the players and coaches, but then let the fans have a vote too.

The idea that guys like Dr. Z are selecting who deserves a spot in the HOF or not is a depressing thought.

FAX · 02-06-2007, 02:21 AM

Nice. Very nice. It makes me a little angry, but this is the case that should be made.

Thanks for posting, Mr. DaWolf.

FAX

SPchief · 02-06-2007, 02:26 AM

Great article by JoPo

**007** · 02-06-2007, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

Sportswriters shouldn't even have a vote. It should be left to the Players and Coaches who actually played the game. Or fine, give the sportswriters a vote to supplement the players and coaches, but then let the fans have a vote too.

The idea that guys like Dr. Z are selecting who deserves a spot in the HOF or not is a depressing thought.

I have always felt that way about the writers. Never understood why the writers carry any clout over a football players career. Or any sport for that matter.

SPchief · 02-06-2007, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

Sportswriters shouldn't even have a vote. It should be left to the Players and Coaches who actually played the game. Or fine, give the sportswriters a vote to supplement the players and coaches, but then let the fans have a vote too.

The idea that guys like Dr. Z are selecting who deserves a spot in the HOF or not is a depressing thought.

Honest opinion, should DT be in the hall?

**007** · 02-06-2007, 02:34 AM

SPchief · 02-06-2007, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPchief

Honest opinion, should DT be in the hall?

Teej?

SPchief · 02-06-2007, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPchief

Honest opinion, should DT be in the hall?

Paging Taco John

Messier · 02-06-2007, 04:32 AM

The “liability against the run” argument is a huge myth and in a way it seems like some sort of cop out. Deion Sanders will be a first ballot HOF'er. Will the fact that he couldn't and wouldn't tackle stop his induction? No. DT could and did stop the run. It's just that job one for him was get to the QB, if along the way he saw the QB hand off he'd go for the RB. I wonder what his tackle for loss numbers are? I bet they're high.

Direckshun · 02-06-2007, 04:43 AM

At this point we'll be lucky if Will Shields or Tony G find a way to get in.

Mecca · 02-06-2007, 05:41 AM

What's hurting DT is simple...the Chiefs never played in a bowl.....he played in small market KC, and for basically every year of his career the Chiefs took backseat to teams like Buffalo.

Good players from great teams get in before great players from good teams. That's is how the NFL HOF works. The only way you get in without winning or being on a great team is if your retire with a bunch of records.

kcfanXIII · 02-06-2007, 05:44 AM

bigger shame, buck o'neil, or derrick thomas?

**007** · 02-06-2007, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

What's hurting DT is simple...the Chiefs never played in a bowl.....he played in small market KC, and for basically every year of his career the Chiefs took backseat to teams like Buffalo.

Good players from great teams get in before great players from good teams. That's is how the NFL HOF works. The only way you get in without winning or being on a great team is if your retire with a bunch of records.

AKA Dan Marino. I am all for him getting taken out of the HOF for his lack of a ring.

Mecca · 02-06-2007, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru

AKA Dan Marino. I am all for him getting taken out of the HOF for his lack of a ring.

If you wanna look at how the NFL HOF works and how ludicrious it is, look no further than the ridiculous amount of 70's Steelers players in there....they have so many I swear there's a hot dog vender on there from that era.

02-06-2007, 02:17 AM
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	Posnanski: HOF voters are stupid... I suggest we ask Peter King to respond to this... JOE POSNANSKI COMMENTARY GIVE HIM HIS DUE Pro Football Hall of Fame voters’ perceptions are clouded when it comes to Derrick Thomas MIAMI \| There probably are worse ways to pick pro football hall of famers than by locking 40 wildly diverse sportswriters and broadcasters in a room and having them fight it out to the death. For instance: Having sportswriters throw darts at a dartboard with players’ names on it … that would be a worse way. A “Wheel of Hall of Fame Fortune” game show — that would be worse. OK, that’s all I can come up with. Saturday afternoon, the 40-man party crew known as the Pro Football Hall of Fame selection committee batted things around and again passed on Derrick Thomas. That makes three years running, and it’s now becoming apparent that Thomas may never get selected for the Hall of Fame. This seemed as if it would be his year. The ballot was thin. The vote was in Thomas’ hometown. The time seemed right. The group did not vote him in again, choosing instead to honor Michael Irvin, which is a whole other story. Well, the bright side there is that anyone who thinks the personal mistakes Derrick Thomas may have made in his life have something to do with the Hall of Fame can put that idea away. Michael Irvin was selected for the Hall of Fame. Anyway. The big problem here seems to be a matter of perception. This Hall of Fame committee, for whatever reason, remains unconvinced. Some of them seem to think Derrick Thomas is a “borderline” Hall of Fame candidate. I have no idea where this idea came from — maybe his case hasn’t been presented right, or maybe committee members have spent too much time talking about his so-called weaknesses as a player, or maybe they just didn’t see him play enough because the Chiefs never reached a Super Bowl. Maybe some of them simply slept through the 1990s. So this needs to be written down: There is nothing borderline about Derrick Thomas’ football case. He is a slam-dunk, no-doubt, sure-as-shooting Hall of Famer. He should have gone in on the first ballot with Dan Marino and that group. He changed as many football games as any defensive player in the NFL in the 1990s. He sacked more quarterbacks, caused more fumbles, fired up more crowds, forced more bad passes and shifted more momentum than anyone else. The idea of football is to win. The Chiefs went 110-65-1 during Derrick Thomas’ career. He was the biggest reason why they kept winning. Look: Derrick Thomas had 126 1/2 sacks in his career before he died too young. Nobody had more in that time frame. He set the NFL record for sacks in a game with seven. He was the unquestioned leader of a Chiefs team that went to the playoffs seven times in 11 seasons (and just missed two other times). The Chiefs’ defense finished in the top half of the NFL every season but one, was in the top 10 six times and was No. 1 in the entire league twice. This guy was a dominant football player. How dominant? He made nine Pro Bowls. Nine. In the history of the NFL, only 57 players have made nine or more Pro Bowls — and among the eligible players, only five of them are not in the Hall of Fame. No linebacker has made more than 10. Among the greatest linebackers, Dick Butkus was in eight Pro Bowls. Willie Lanier was in eight Pro Bowls. Nick Buoniconti was in eight Pro Bowls. And so on. By the way, Michael Irvin made just five Pro Bowls, which at last check was more than his number of drug arrests, though it’s close. Thurman Thomas, another Hall of Fame choice this year, made only five Pro Bowls, too. Oh yeah, and there has been some talk that some other pass rushers like Fred Dean, Andre Tippett and Richard Dent have created a foggy situation for Hall of Fame voters. How can you tell them apart? Well, here’s one way: Fred Dean made four Pro Bowls, Andre Tippett five and Richard Dent four. Come on. They were fine pass rushers. They were not Derrick Thomas. Thomas was a uniquely dominating player. Every coach had to game-plan around him. Every offense had to focus on him. Every young linebacker wanted to be Derrick Thomas. And as for the knock that he was not a great “all-round” player — come on. What is an all-round football player anyway? John Elway couldn’t kick field goals. Mike Singletary couldn’t throw passes. Derrick Thomas’ job was not to cover receivers and stuff the run. His job was to get the quarterback and create havoc, and he did it with an abandon that few players in the history of the game ever matched. And as for the idea that he was a “liability against the run,” as I heard one voter say — that’s baloney, as my father used to say. In Thomas’ 11 seasons, the Chiefs allowed more than 4 yards per rush only twice. Teams did not run the ball against the Chiefs. And then consider this: The Chiefs did not have a single other linebacker make the Pro Bowl in his career. Liability. Sheesh. Let’s just hope nobody ever again offers that stupid line. Derrick Thomas has other credentials. He was the NFL Man of the Year. He forced 45 fumbles, recorded three safeties and scored four touchdowns. He was the player who, as much as anyone, turned Kansas City into one of the great football towns in the NFL. But all of these are just extras. Derrick Thomas dominated professional football games. He changed professional football games. He was, post-Lawrence Taylor, the most electrifying defensive player in the NFL. I have no idea what those guys in the room said about Thomas, but Derrick Thomas is not a guy you talk about. He’s a guy you vote for without question and without hesitation. Let’s hope some people wake up. http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/16630797.htm
Posts: 6,798

02-06-2007, 02:20 AM	#2
Taco John Sapere Aude Join Date: Jun 2001 Casino cash: $477937	Sportswriters shouldn't even have a vote. It should be left to the Players and Coaches who actually played the game. Or fine, give the sportswriters a vote to supplement the players and coaches, but then let the fans have a vote too. The idea that guys like Dr. Z are selecting who deserves a spot in the HOF or not is a depressing thought. __________________ Ehyeh asher ehyeh. Donger's Razor: "The most establishment-friendly explanation that gives leftist and neocon politicians the most amount of cover is the only possible explanation, even when gaping holes and leaps of logic are required to get there."
Posts: 79,756

02-06-2007, 02:21 AM	#3
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	Nice. Very nice. It makes me a little angry, but this is the case that should be made. Thanks for posting, Mr. DaWolf. FAX
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02-06-2007, 02:26 AM	#4
SPchief In Search of a Life Join Date: Feb 2004 Casino cash: $-1867095	Great article by JoPo __________________ Check out SPchief's fundraising page for Special Olympics Missouri - https://support.somo.org/fundraiser/5957339 ^^^^^^^^^^ Click here to help with a special cause. Please help me out
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02-06-2007, 02:34 AM	#7
007 Shaken. Not stirred. Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London Casino cash: $12170126 VARSITY	Yes __________________ My dear girl, there are some things that just aren’t done. Such as, drinking Dom Perignon ’53 above the temperature of 38 degrees Fahrenheit. That’s just as bad as listening to the Beatles without earmuffs.
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02-06-2007, 04:32 AM	#10
Messier MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Casino cash: $10005050	The “liability against the run” argument is a huge myth and in a way it seems like some sort of cop out. Deion Sanders will be a first ballot HOF'er. Will the fact that he couldn't and wouldn't tackle stop his induction? No. DT could and did stop the run. It's just that job one for him was get to the QB, if along the way he saw the QB hand off he'd go for the RB. I wonder what his tackle for loss numbers are? I bet they're high.
Posts: 7,610

02-06-2007, 04:43 AM	#11
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2033447	At this point we'll be lucky if Will Shields or Tony G find a way to get in.
Posts: 59,693

02-06-2007, 05:41 AM	#12
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-652950	What's hurting DT is simple...the Chiefs never played in a bowl.....he played in small market KC, and for basically every year of his career the Chiefs took backseat to teams like Buffalo. Good players from great teams get in before great players from good teams. That's is how the NFL HOF works. The only way you get in without winning or being on a great team is if your retire with a bunch of records.
Posts: 115,346

02-06-2007, 05:44 AM	#13
kcfanXIII Ride on! Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Galaxy far far away Casino cash: $10013172	bigger shame, buck o'neil, or derrick thomas? __________________ Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed, overcomes the fear of death.
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