I'm smarter than you are!

keg in kc · 10:19 PM

Look, a scientist said it, so it must be true!!! ;)

[SIZE=4][COLOR=red][b][i][u]Classical Music Lovers May Indeed Have More Brains!!!!![/u][/i][/b][/color][/SIZE]

By Melinda Bargreen
Seattle Times Music Critic
8-13-1

One of the most fascinating of all medical-research subjects - especially to those interested in the arts - has been the relationship of music to brain function. Classical-music lovers are really going to like the results of recent British and Italian studies that offer one explanation for individual preferences for classical versus pop music: The former may require more brainpower.

A recent issue of BBC Music Magazine reports the studies of the dementia patients of Dr. Raj Persaud of Maudsley Hospital in London, from which Persaud concludes that there's a link between musical taste and intellectual function. As brainpower diminishes in dementia patients who have previously liked classical music, the patients sometimes begin to prefer pop music.

As Persaud put it, "What this may mean is that you require more gray matter to appreciate classical music and that you don't need so much gray matter to appreciate pop music, so as you lose gray matter your taste in music changes accordingly."

Brain damage changes tastes

Other research suggests Persaud may be right. Writing in the Journal of Neurology, Italian neurologist Dr. Giovanni Frisoni states that dementia's damage to the frontal lobes of the brain (the part most involved in complex judgments) is responsible for those changes in musical likes and dislikes. Since pop music is "composed to appeal to the widest possible audience," as Frisoni put it, "the frontal lesions of our patients might have damaged the circuits that were inhibiting this appeal."

Of course, Frisoni does not mean that pop-music listeners are brain-damaged. Musical taste, he points out, is an extremely complex issue, depending upon "individual, social and cultural factors."

Frisoni's own research in Brescia, Italy, reached similar conclusions. Patients suffering from dementia exhibited a complete turnaround in their musical tastes. One 68-year-old lawyer and longtime classical-music lover, for example, who had developed increasing problems with speaking and abstract thinking, began listening to Italian pop music at top volume. Earlier, he had referred to pop music as "mere noise."

There could be other reasons for such changes in musical preference. As reported in BBC News Health, patients who have damage to the brain's right frontal lobe, where novelty is managed, could be more inclined toward seeking novelty " and pop music would certainly be novel to those who had previously shunned it. Frisoni also thinks that lesions may have damaged the dementia patients' brains in the centers responsible for the perception of pitch, rhythm and familiarity.

More Mozart effects

More brain research suggests that playing Mozart " that same composer responsible for the much-touted "Mozart Effect," in which performance on certain aspects of IQ tests was improved following exposure to his music " can also have a beneficial effect on epilepsy patients. John Jenkins of the University of London has found that playing "short bursts of Mozart's Sonata K.448" (the D Major Sonata for Two Pianos) decreases epileptic attacks.

Other studies suggest that Mozart also has a beneficial effect on coma patients.

An early start

Educators have long observed the benefits of early musical training on school performance, and various studies have shown that some areas of the brain are enlarged among those whose "perfect pitch" facility is revealed in that early training. More recently, the American Academy of Neurology has released the results of a study that found "significant differences" in the gray-matter distribution between professional musicians trained at an early age and nonmusicians.

The musicians in the study had more relative gray-matter volume in five regions of the brain, and "pronounced differences in the cerebellum bilaterally."

Nature or nurture?

Study leader Gottfried Schlaug said the study was undertaken to determine whether "intense environmental demands such as musical training at an early age influenced actual brain growth and development," and the study may show that this is the case.

On the other hand, it's possible, though apparently less likely, that the brain differences were there in the first place. The musicians could have been born with these brain differences, "which may draw them toward their musical gifts," as Schlaug put it.

In any case, we can be sure that research studies are continuing apace, as scientists plumb these fascinating relationships between music and the brain. At the University of Washington, for instance, the School of Music and the Medical Center are beginning a collaborative study to examine the neurological responses of adult listeners (with varying degrees of music-performance training) to musical excerpts and spoken statements.

Just remember: If any of you classical fans out there suddenly start craving "Oops! I Did It Again," it just might be time for a quick visit to your neurologist.

And to think other kids called me "dumb" for studying music... :p

Frazod · 08-13-2001, 10:35 PM

I only know one person (well) who is a full-fledged classical music lover, and she's a friggin PSYCHO - the wife of one of my best friends. Ironically, he told her he wanted a divorce this weekend - and one of the multitude of things that she drove him nuts about was his abject failure to like classical music. I think he told her to shove Mozart up her a$$ as he left.

IMHO, it's not the size of the brain that matters so much as the size of the part that functions normally. The two do not necessarily go hand-in-hand.

Personally, I'll stick with the Eagles. bbbrane werks fyne norrrmally....

keg in kc · 08-13-2001, 10:39 PM

Actually, I can further vouch for that, Tim. Part of the reason I got out of music is that at least 50% of the people I knew were complete nut jobs, and the other 50% were so arrogant that I couldn't stand to be in the same building with 'em.

Frazod · 08-13-2001, 10:41 PM

"Complete nut job" pretty much sums her up. She has about 5 distinct personalities. I get along really well with two of them. The other three, though... :eek:

**Dave Lane** · 08-13-2001, 11:09 PM

Hey watch what you're saying I'm listening to Carmina Burana - O Fortuna by Carl Orff. Kick-butt track, I heard it on the Chiefs pregame show yesterday with Mitch Holtis doing a play in the background! WOW gave me goosebumps had to download it tonight from Morpheus. I highly recommend it while reading Chiefs posts makes you feel even more powerful!!

Dave

Frazod · 08-13-2001, 11:14 PM

Carmina Burana? Isn't she a cheerleader for the Colts? Hmm....

keg in kc · 08-13-2001, 11:18 PM

Dave, my favorite music is all either "Classical" (wide variety of stuff covering about 1000 years of music and we call it all classical, go figure...) or Jazz. That was the impetus for the thread (although I was being purely tongue-in-cheek). I don't listen to anything on the radio (except a few talk shows) unless I'm subjected to it in the car with my hip-hop crazy fiance.

mcan · 08-13-2001, 11:30 PM

I used to work at a guitar store, and if liking pop music (guitar based) is any indication of your intelligence than that explains a lot of what went on around there. These "country band" dudes came in one time asking for "cds with more than one band on them" I said we probably had some compilation cds in the used bin. They proceded to make fun of me for my correct use of the word "compilation." They didn't buy anything. Another time this guy, who was a regular at the store called me up insisting he was "Mick Fleetwood" He was also so paranoid that when he would watch a football game on TV, and the players were in the huddle, he thought they were talking about him. There were several other cases of extreme stupidity around that store. Most of these people were sorry to say it, stereotypes of "country music lovers"

aturnis · 08-14-2001, 03:49 AM

You don't even listen to SlipKnoT?

Aturnis
-Thinks Kegger has some severe problems......

Abba-Dabba · 08-14-2001, 04:04 AM

You may be smarter than me but how did I get

T.Green
R.Moss
T.Holt
K.Johnson
A.Green
M.Anderson
J.Anderson
S.Sharpe

on my fantasy team?....Now that's classical music to my ears

aturnis · 08-14-2001, 04:09 AM

Yeah Cooter.........but what I'm trying to say is SlipKnoT RULES!

**ExtremeChief** · 08-14-2001, 05:57 AM

[quote]I'm smarter than you are!![/quote]

Thanks for rubbing it in Kyle ;)

thank goodness I'm damn good looking...:D

keg in kc · 08-14-2001, 07:15 AM

Actually, Extreme, I didn't post the "classical music makes you a hunk" article because I didn't want to be held responsible for the hundreds of poor lost Planeteers who'd be jumping out their office windows as they learn the "truth"! :)

Cooter, that's a good team. What league are you in, an 8-owner first-timer rookie league at the local Senior Center? ;)

J/K -- my first draft isn't for another two weeks, so I can't really tell you who's on any of my teams, but I can guarantee it won't be without a visible hole or two. I'm in some tough leagues, but hey, that's the fun of it!

Aturnis, WTF is SlipKnot?

The only even remotely commercial stuff I listen to is Sting. Always loved Sting, but that's because he's got so many influences from different styles of music.

To be honest, I don't listen to very much music at all anymore. After leaving college I needed some quiet time, and apparently 2.5 years isn't enough, yet. ;)

Abba-Dabba · 08-15-2001, 02:18 AM

That senior league reference is too damn funny!

I usually play in 1 to 2(this year 3, I think I am in way over my head) local leagues a year with 24 to 36 teams that are in 2 conferences each with 3 divisions with 4-6 teams in each division. In 1 league we are able to keep 3 players from previous roster, also we are able to trade those players for draft day picks from other teams and basically thats how I recieved some of those players. I traded M.Faulk for the #1 pick and A.Green. T.Holt was on a team last year that the person did not return and he was my highest rated player that was not retained on a team, I took Holt with the #1 pick, well I also had the #2 pick that I drew from a hat before the draft and took R.Moss with that pick. In the 2nd round I chose M.Anderson, who I think will be the starter for Denver. 3rd round I took T.Green, 4th was J.Anderson, 5th was K.Johnson, who is neither popular with me or the majority of team owners in the league. I admit I got lucky in someways but I did have to give up Faulk though, and that in itself is no easy task to do whether Faulk is injured or not.

keg in kc · 08-15-2001, 06:28 AM

Giving up Faulk was definitely worth it for what you got in return, at least IMHO...

08-13-2001, 10:16 PM
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	I'm smarter than you are! Look, a scientist said it, so it must be true!!! ;) [SIZE=4][COLOR=red][b][i][u]Classical Music Lovers May Indeed Have More Brains!!!!![/u][/i][/b][/color][/SIZE] By Melinda Bargreen Seattle Times Music Critic 8-13-1 One of the most fascinating of all medical-research subjects - especially to those interested in the arts - has been the relationship of music to brain function. Classical-music lovers are really going to like the results of recent British and Italian studies that offer one explanation for individual preferences for classical versus pop music: The former may require more brainpower. A recent issue of BBC Music Magazine reports the studies of the dementia patients of Dr. Raj Persaud of Maudsley Hospital in London, from which Persaud concludes that there's a link between musical taste and intellectual function. As brainpower diminishes in dementia patients who have previously liked classical music, the patients sometimes begin to prefer pop music. As Persaud put it, "What this may mean is that you require more gray matter to appreciate classical music and that you don't need so much gray matter to appreciate pop music, so as you lose gray matter your taste in music changes accordingly." Brain damage changes tastes Other research suggests Persaud may be right. Writing in the Journal of Neurology, Italian neurologist Dr. Giovanni Frisoni states that dementia's damage to the frontal lobes of the brain (the part most involved in complex judgments) is responsible for those changes in musical likes and dislikes. Since pop music is "composed to appeal to the widest possible audience," as Frisoni put it, "the frontal lesions of our patients might have damaged the circuits that were inhibiting this appeal." Of course, Frisoni does not mean that pop-music listeners are brain-damaged. Musical taste, he points out, is an extremely complex issue, depending upon "individual, social and cultural factors." Frisoni's own research in Brescia, Italy, reached similar conclusions. Patients suffering from dementia exhibited a complete turnaround in their musical tastes. One 68-year-old lawyer and longtime classical-music lover, for example, who had developed increasing problems with speaking and abstract thinking, began listening to Italian pop music at top volume. Earlier, he had referred to pop music as "mere noise." There could be other reasons for such changes in musical preference. As reported in BBC News Health, patients who have damage to the brain's right frontal lobe, where novelty is managed, could be more inclined toward seeking novelty " and pop music would certainly be novel to those who had previously shunned it. Frisoni also thinks that lesions may have damaged the dementia patients' brains in the centers responsible for the perception of pitch, rhythm and familiarity. More Mozart effects More brain research suggests that playing Mozart " that same composer responsible for the much-touted "Mozart Effect," in which performance on certain aspects of IQ tests was improved following exposure to his music " can also have a beneficial effect on epilepsy patients. John Jenkins of the University of London has found that playing "short bursts of Mozart's Sonata K.448" (the D Major Sonata for Two Pianos) decreases epileptic attacks. Other studies suggest that Mozart also has a beneficial effect on coma patients. An early start Educators have long observed the benefits of early musical training on school performance, and various studies have shown that some areas of the brain are enlarged among those whose "perfect pitch" facility is revealed in that early training. More recently, the American Academy of Neurology has released the results of a study that found "significant differences" in the gray-matter distribution between professional musicians trained at an early age and nonmusicians. The musicians in the study had more relative gray-matter volume in five regions of the brain, and "pronounced differences in the cerebellum bilaterally." Nature or nurture? Study leader Gottfried Schlaug said the study was undertaken to determine whether "intense environmental demands such as musical training at an early age influenced actual brain growth and development," and the study may show that this is the case. On the other hand, it's possible, though apparently less likely, that the brain differences were there in the first place. The musicians could have been born with these brain differences, "which may draw them toward their musical gifts," as Schlaug put it. In any case, we can be sure that research studies are continuing apace, as scientists plumb these fascinating relationships between music and the brain. At the University of Washington, for instance, the School of Music and the Medical Center are beginning a collaborative study to examine the neurological responses of adult listeners (with varying degrees of music-performance training) to musical excerpts and spoken statements. Just remember: If any of you classical fans out there suddenly start craving "Oops! I Did It Again," it just might be time for a quick visit to your neurologist. And to think other kids called me "dumb" for studying music... :p Last edited by keg in kc; 08-13-2001 at 10:19 PM..
Posts: 58,682

08-13-2001, 10:39 PM	#3
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Actually, I can further vouch for that, Tim. Part of the reason I got out of music is that at least 50% of the people I knew were complete nut jobs, and the other 50% were so arrogant that I couldn't stand to be in the same building with 'em.
Posts: 58,682

08-13-2001, 10:41 PM	#4
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-656615	"Complete nut job" pretty much sums her up. She has about 5 distinct personalities. I get along really well with two of them. The other three, though... :eek:
Posts: 121,727

08-13-2001, 11:09 PM	#5
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	Hey watch what you're saying I'm listening to Carmina Burana - O Fortuna by Carl Orff. Kick-butt track, I heard it on the Chiefs pregame show yesterday with Mitch Holtis doing a play in the background! WOW gave me goosebumps had to download it tonight from Morpheus. I highly recommend it while reading Chiefs posts makes you feel even more powerful!! Dave __________________ Thanks, Trump for the civics lesson. We are learning so much about RICO, espionage, sedition, impeachment, the 25th Amendment, order of succession, nepotism, separation of powers, 1st Amendment, obstruction of justice, the emoluments clause, conflicts of interest, collusion, sanctions, oligarchs, money laundering and so much more.
Posts: 40,584

08-13-2001, 11:14 PM	#6
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-656615	Carmina Burana? Isn't she a cheerleader for the Colts? Hmm....
Posts: 121,727

08-13-2001, 10:35 PM	#2
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-656615	I only know one person (well) who is a full-fledged classical music lover, and she's a friggin PSYCHO - the wife of one of my best friends. Ironically, he told her he wanted a divorce this weekend - and one of the multitude of things that she drove him nuts about was his abject failure to like classical music. I think he told her to shove Mozart up her a$$ as he left. IMHO, it's not the size of the brain that matters so much as the size of the part that functions normally. The two do not necessarily go hand-in-hand. Personally, I'll stick with the Eagles. bbbrane werks fyne norrrmally....
Posts: 121,727

08-13-2001, 11:18 PM	#7
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Dave, my favorite music is all either "Classical" (wide variety of stuff covering about 1000 years of music and we call it all classical, go figure...) or Jazz. That was the impetus for the thread (although I was being purely tongue-in-cheek). I don't listen to anything on the radio (except a few talk shows) unless I'm subjected to it in the car with my hip-hop crazy fiance.
Posts: 58,682

08-13-2001, 11:30 PM	#8
mcan Apr 13,1949 – Dec 15, 2011 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO Casino cash: $9996085	I used to work at a guitar store, and if liking pop music (guitar based) is any indication of your intelligence than that explains a lot of what went on around there. These "country band" dudes came in one time asking for "cds with more than one band on them" I said we probably had some compilation cds in the used bin. They proceded to make fun of me for my correct use of the word "compilation." They didn't buy anything. Another time this guy, who was a regular at the store called me up insisting he was "Mick Fleetwood" He was also so paranoid that when he would watch a football game on TV, and the players were in the huddle, he thought they were talking about him. There were several other cases of extreme stupidity around that store. Most of these people were sorry to say it, stereotypes of "country music lovers"
Posts: 3,761

08-14-2001, 03:49 AM	#9
aturnis MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Iowa Casino cash: $9975811	You don't even listen to SlipKnoT? Aturnis -Thinks Kegger has some severe problems......
Posts: 13,873

08-14-2001, 04:04 AM	#10
Abba-Dabba MVP Join Date: May 2001 Casino cash: $3582970	You may be smarter than me but how did I get T.Green R.Moss T.Holt K.Johnson A.Green M.Anderson J.Anderson S.Sharpe on my fantasy team?....Now that's classical music to my ears
Posts: 18,278

08-14-2001, 04:09 AM	#11
aturnis MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Iowa Casino cash: $9975811	Yeah Cooter.........but what I'm trying to say is SlipKnoT RULES!
Posts: 13,873

08-14-2001, 05:57 AM	#12
ExtremeChief Poser Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: BFE, MO Casino cash: $9991344	[quote]I'm smarter than you are!![/quote] Thanks for rubbing it in Kyle ;) thank goodness I'm damn good looking...:D __________________ When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.
Posts: 2,354

08-14-2001, 07:15 AM	#13
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Actually, Extreme, I didn't post the "classical music makes you a hunk" article because I didn't want to be held responsible for the hundreds of poor lost Planeteers who'd be jumping out their office windows as they learn the "truth"! :) Cooter, that's a good team. What league are you in, an 8-owner first-timer rookie league at the local Senior Center? ;) J/K -- my first draft isn't for another two weeks, so I can't really tell you who's on any of my teams, but I can guarantee it won't be without a visible hole or two. I'm in some tough leagues, but hey, that's the fun of it! Aturnis, WTF is SlipKnot? The only even remotely commercial stuff I listen to is Sting. Always loved Sting, but that's because he's got so many influences from different styles of music. To be honest, I don't listen to very much music at all anymore. After leaving college I needed some quiet time, and apparently 2.5 years isn't enough, yet. ;)
Posts: 58,682

08-15-2001, 02:18 AM	#14
Abba-Dabba MVP Join Date: May 2001 Casino cash: $3582970	keg That senior league reference is too damn funny! I usually play in 1 to 2(this year 3, I think I am in way over my head) local leagues a year with 24 to 36 teams that are in 2 conferences each with 3 divisions with 4-6 teams in each division. In 1 league we are able to keep 3 players from previous roster, also we are able to trade those players for draft day picks from other teams and basically thats how I recieved some of those players. I traded M.Faulk for the #1 pick and A.Green. T.Holt was on a team last year that the person did not return and he was my highest rated player that was not retained on a team, I took Holt with the #1 pick, well I also had the #2 pick that I drew from a hat before the draft and took R.Moss with that pick. In the 2nd round I chose M.Anderson, who I think will be the starter for Denver. 3rd round I took T.Green, 4th was J.Anderson, 5th was K.Johnson, who is neither popular with me or the majority of team owners in the league. I admit I got lucky in someways but I did have to give up Faulk though, and that in itself is no easy task to do whether Faulk is injured or not.
Posts: 18,278

08-15-2001, 06:28 AM	#15
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Giving up Faulk was definitely worth it for what you got in return, at least IMHO...
Posts: 58,682